CAP Talk

General Discussion => Membership => Topic started by: RADIOMAN015 on February 19, 2012, 02:09:29 PM

Title: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on February 19, 2012, 02:09:29 PM
My understanding is that E services will only allow two assistant to officer positions e.g. Assistant Communications Officer.  IF the commander tries to input a third person it won't allow it ???   Anyone else experience this ???
RM
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: jeders on February 19, 2012, 03:14:38 PM
I don't know if things have changed since I was a commander, but when I first took command every senior member was assigned as an assistant ES officer.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: ßτε on February 19, 2012, 04:02:31 PM
I am pretty sure that limitation does not exist.

(I just tested it, assigning a third Asst Communications Officer, and it worked.)
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: lordmonar on February 19, 2012, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on February 19, 2012, 02:09:29 PM
My understanding is that E services will only allow two assistant to officer positions e.g. Assistant Communications Officer.  IF the commander tries to input a third person it won't allow it ???   Anyone else experience this ???
RM
I've never seen that.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: RADIOMAN015 on February 19, 2012, 04:35:10 PM
Quote from: ß τ ε on February 19, 2012, 04:02:31 PM
I am pretty sure that limitation does not exist.

(I just tested it, assigning a third Asst Communications Officer, and it worked.)
Yes, it worked today when the commander tried it again, it didn't work yesterday for some unknown reason -- So we are pressing on :-[
RM
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: SarDragon on February 20, 2012, 07:09:09 AM
Up until about a month ago, we had four people assigned as Ass't Comm, and no problems in eServices.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: a2capt on February 20, 2012, 08:43:52 AM
It's just RM looking for a conspiracy.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: Turtle1 on February 20, 2012, 12:35:54 PM
Good Morning,

While on the subject of duty positions, is it possible to assign a cadet to a duty position?  For example "assistant communications officer".

Thank you.


Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: Al Sayre on February 20, 2012, 01:20:19 PM
Not in eServices.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: Turtle1 on February 20, 2012, 01:22:46 PM
Thank you, the reason I ask is that we have a cadet who is listed as ADY for the Wing Communications and he does all the communication work for the squadron so we were trying to figure out how to do it...
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: EMT-83 on February 20, 2012, 01:25:03 PM
There is/was a glitch that allowed cadets to be assigned to a primary duty position in eServices. NHQ is currently investigating.

By regulation, cadets cannot hold senior member duty positions.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: Tim Medeiros on February 22, 2012, 03:27:19 PM
They can however be assistants.

Quote from: CAPR 52-16 4-1b. Advanced Positions. Cadets may not serve in any of the senior member staff positions listed in CAPR 20-1, Organization of Civil Air Patrol, but may serve as assistants to those officers. Phase I and II cadets who serve as staff assistants may not use that service to fulfill staff duty analysis requirements.

emphasis mine
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: ßτε on February 22, 2012, 03:35:04 PM
Quote from: Turtle1 on February 20, 2012, 12:35:54 PM
Good Morning,

While on the subject of duty positions, is it possible to assign a cadet to a duty position?  For example "assistant communications officer".

Thank you.
You can assign a cadet to an assistant duty position, but not in eServices. You would need to use a CAPF 2A or issue a PA.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: EMT-83 on February 22, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
Serving as an assistant to the duty officer is not the same as being appointed assistant duty officer.

Where's Eclipse with his assistant-to-the-manager t-shirt?
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: lordmonar on February 22, 2012, 06:13:05 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 22, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
Serving as an assistant to the duty officer is not the same as being appointed assistant duty officer.

Where's Eclipse with his assistant-to-the-manager t-shirt?
???
Somantics?

Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: Eclipse on February 22, 2012, 06:27:52 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on February 22, 2012, 06:13:05 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on February 22, 2012, 06:07:39 PM
Serving as an assistant to the duty officer is not the same as being appointed assistant duty officer.

Where's Eclipse with his assistant-to-the-manager t-shirt?
???
Somantics?

No - they are completely different things, and much more than nuance.

In most cases, an Assistant Manager (etc), is charged with the exact same duties, responsibilities, and authority (DRA), as the primary in his absence, and that DRA requires no further authorization beyond the acknowledgement of the absence of the primary, whether formal or informal.

This is true of Deputy Commanders, Vice Commanders, Vice Presidents, etc., etc.

An Assistant to the Manager, is simply and literally that.  An assistant.  And as such, has zero DRA unless specifically delegated, and will rarely have any responsibility for anything.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: lordmonar on February 22, 2012, 06:45:47 PM
You know I looked....and execept for the commander....I don't think there is any duty position that is authorised a personal assitant.

Assitant staff officers do not automatically assume the duties of the primary until instructed to do so by the commander.
Just as deputy commanders do not automatically assume the duties of the commander in his absense.

Cadets are assigned as Assistant Staff Officers....not assistants to the staff officer.

If we are not going to give them the DRA's....don't waste their time with the appointment.
Title: Re: EServices Assistant Officer Position Limitations?
Post by: Eclipse on February 22, 2012, 07:02:20 PM
No authorization is required to appoint a member as an assistant.  A Commander may appoint
any member under his authority to any duty he sees fit.

Quote from: lordmonar on February 22, 2012, 06:45:47 PM
Cadets are assigned as Assistant Staff Officers....not assistants to the staff officer.
52-16 disagrees with you. (as was already pointed out)

b. Advanced Positions.  Cadets may not serve in any of the senior member staff positions
listed in CAPR 20-1, Organization of Civil Air Patrol, but may serve as assistants to those officers.
Phase I and II cadets who serve as staff assistants may not use that service to fulfill staff duty
analysis requirements.



Quote from: lordmonar on February 22, 2012, 06:45:47 PM
If we are not going to give them the DRA's....don't waste their time with the appointment.

Works for me.  Serving in squadron staff positions is not their role, and any unit that is so understaffed that it needs to look to
the cadet ranks for squadron staff, needs to bring in more people.  Cadets already have the opportunity to do "ride-alongs"
with senior staffers for SDA's, which is about as far as their service on a unit staff should go.

Also, in more cases than not, cadets who are appointed to, or seeking, to do squadron staff work are doing so because they are disinterested in the actual cadet program (for whatever reason), and/or just want to sit at the Leadership Corps table.

Just as is the case for Senior Members, cadets can be fully involved with helping unit operations without an actual title for a business card.