http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_003_83459660D4F44.pdf (http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R039_003_83459660D4F44.pdf)
Not too much exciting, but this will be of interest to the thread regarding the NCSA ribbon:
Page 12
d. Cadet Specialty Activity Ribbon. Awarded to cadets and senior members who
participate in national cadet special activities (see list below). As new activities are established they
will be listed on the national activities website and once listed attendance at those activities qualifies
the individual to wear this ribbon. NOTE: Participation must be recorded in eServices or by
appropriate documentation contained in the member's personnel file to be authorized to wear for the
ribbon. Each subsequent activity is represented by a bronze star affixed to the basic ribbon. Cadets
earning this ribbon may continue to wear the ribbon as a senior member.
Hm. So how does that affect national activities such as NESA, which does not use the ncsa.com system, or JFA, which does but is not an NCSA?
Well, NESA is clearly an NCSA, and JFA makes it clear they aren't.
Also, NESA appears in a member's "Cadet Training" area, and JFA doesn't appear at all.
So NESA warrants a NCSA ribbon now?
Yet another revision to this manual that provides contradictory rules on what military awards may be worn on the CAP uniform -- this reg says only awards earned by people in the military while the actual uniform manual, which is supposedly the final word on uniforms, says that any award given by a military authority may be worn (whether or not you were in the military at the time it was earned).
As far as I know this is really only applicable to Coast Guard awards earned by CG Auxies and maybe a very few other people that may have earned military awards as civilians.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 08, 2012, 03:52:33 AM
So NESA warrants a NCSA ribbon now?
The previous version explicitly calls out NESA as eligible for the NCSA ribbon (and apparently continues to be - I just looked up the full reg).
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 08, 2012, 03:52:33 AM
So NESA warrants a NCSA ribbon now?
Always has - or at least "always" in the last decade or so...
Really? For some reason I had NESA in NCSA-affiliate catagory.
Quote from: Eclipse on February 08, 2012, 04:01:40 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 08, 2012, 03:52:33 AM
So NESA warrants a NCSA ribbon now?
Always has - or at least "always" in the last decade or so...
Maybe it shouldn't? i.e. you have cadets attending without encampment etc.
Quote from: MIKE on February 08, 2012, 04:38:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 08, 2012, 04:01:40 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 08, 2012, 03:52:33 AM
So NESA warrants a NCSA ribbon now?
Always has - or at least "always" in the last decade or so...
Maybe it shouldn't? i.e. you have cadets attending without encampment etc.
It's a primarily SM activity anyway.
Quote from: davidsinn on February 08, 2012, 05:20:37 AM
Quote from: MIKE on February 08, 2012, 04:38:03 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on February 08, 2012, 04:01:40 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on February 08, 2012, 03:52:33 AM
So NESA warrants a NCSA ribbon now?
Always has - or at least "always" in the last decade or so...
Maybe it shouldn't? i.e. you have cadets attending without encampment etc.
It's a primarily SM activity anyway.
Depends on where you're standing. AGSAR and BGSAR are almost exclusively cadet.
It is? Funny I've been going for the last five years and the cadets outnumber us probably by two to one.
Don't where your getting your information and your in Indiana Wing.
Check your facts.
Paul R.
"It's a primarily SM activity anyway."
Not in the MAS or ICSS.
Perhaps there should be an NESA ribbon that is independent of the NCSA ribbon and the requirements laid out in CAPR 52-16.
As it is now you have cadets wearing NCSA ribbons for NESA who haven't attended encampment, with attachments for multiple sessions within NESA.
Quote from: sarflyer on February 08, 2012, 05:19:57 PM
It is? Funny I've been going for the last five years and the cadets outnumber us probably by two to one.
Don't where your getting your information and your in Indiana Wing.
Check your facts.
Paul R.
"It's a primarily SM activity anyway."
It's a national activity not an INWG activity. The ICSS and MAS are SM activities. Just because the majority of GSAR students are cadets does not make it a cadet specific activity.
Quote from: MIKE on February 08, 2012, 05:44:11 PM
Perhaps there should be an NESA ribbon that is independent of the NCSA ribbon and the requirements laid out in CAPR 52-16.
As it is now you have cadets wearing NCSA ribbons for NESA who haven't attended encampment, with attachments for multiple sessions within NESA.
Two sides of this argument.
1) The encampment requirment to attend other NCSA is, IMHO, there because we want our cadets to go to encampment first before they do other things....not that encampment experince is required for it....but because encampment is required for completeing your Mitchel.
2) If NESA's NCSA status is threatened because of the lack of encampment attenace requirment....then we need to simply add that requirment.
3) We should trust our squadron commanders to make the right call before they let their cadets attend NESA before going to encampment.
I don't support a NESA ribbon.....we got too many of them as it is.
I'm curious to know why anyone would suggest adding making encampment mandatory for cadets who attend NESA. Is it really just to make the NCSA ribbon a better fit?
There are a few reasons why I wouldn't recommend a requirement like that:
1) NESA isn't a cadet program, it's a SAREX.... ok it's a BIG, multi-faceted SAREX, but it's still a SAREX.
2) Having served on both the BGSAR and AGSAR staff (where the majority of cadets are), I don't see any value-added by instituting such a requirement.
3) We already determine what level cadets (and senior members, btw) must have advanced in their cadet program training (professional development in the case of SM's) before participating in Emergency Services. An encampment is not required for any unit, group, or wing level training activity, so I don't think it should be required just because this training is held at the national echelon.
I would much rather see the NCSA ribbon changed to the, "National Special Activity Ribbon."
Quote from: Ed Bos on February 08, 2012, 08:13:41 PM
I'm curious to know why anyone would suggest adding making encampment mandatory for cadets who attend NESA. Is it really just to make the NCSA ribbon a better fit?
There are a few reasons why I wouldn't recommend a requirement like that:
1) NESA isn't a cadet program, it's a SAREX.... ok it's a BIG, multi-faceted SAREX, but it's still a SAREX.
2) Having served on both the BGSAR and AGSAR staff (where the majority of cadets are), I don't see any value-added by instituting such a requirement.
3) We already determine what level cadets (and senior members, btw) must have advanced in their cadet program training (professional development in the case of SM's) before participating in Emergency Services. An encampment is not required for any unit, group, or wing level training activity, so I don't think it should be required just because this training is held at the national echelon.
I would much rather see the NCSA ribbon changed to the, "National Special Activity Ribbon."
Because encampment would tend to weed out the cadets that can't stand being away from mommy. Yes they do exist and I would imagine it could get ugly at NESA.
Quote from: Ed Bos on February 08, 2012, 08:13:41 PM
I'm curious to know why anyone would suggest adding making encampment mandatory for cadets who attend NESA. Is it really just to make the NCSA ribbon a better fit?
There are a few reasons why I wouldn't recommend a requirement like that:
1) NESA isn't a cadet program, it's a SAREX.... ok it's a BIG, multi-faceted SAREX, but it's still a SAREX.
2) Having served on both the BGSAR and AGSAR staff (where the majority of cadets are), I don't see any value-added by instituting such a requirement.
3) We already determine what level cadets (and senior members, btw) must have advanced in their cadet program training (professional development in the case of SM's) before participating in Emergency Services. An encampment is not required for any unit, group, or wing level training activity, so I don't think it should be required just because this training is held at the national echelon.
I would much rather see the NCSA ribbon changed to the, "National Special Activity Ribbon."
It was previously a requirement (I had to complete it before I attended as a cadet). So it wouldn't really be adding a requirement, just reinstating it. Are the reasons you listed why it was dropped to begin with?
Quote from: davidsinn on February 08, 2012, 08:18:46 PMBecause encampment would tend to weed out the cadets that can't stand being away from mommy. Yes they do exist and I would imagine it could get ugly at NESA.
I would assume that if there were a problem the NESA guys would keep that requirment.
Also, the aim is generally to encourage cadets to complete the required elements of their program (e.g., basic encampment for Mitchell Award) before branching into "elective" areas.
I do like how they include Cyber Patriot not as a part of the Cadet Special Activity Ribbon. It's a pretty high requirement to make the finals to get credit but it's good something is recognizing that program as something we do really well.
I concur on adding CyberPatriot as one of the activities that qualify for the NCSA ribbon. Having coached a team last year and this year (with my team this year being one of the four CAP teams in the final round), I understand the workload that goes into getting a team to the final round. The cadets and seniors involved are certainly deserving.
^ Seriously?? Thats like saying "my Color Guard spends 10 hours per week outside of normal meetings performing, so we should get a ribbon".
I have also been involved with Cyber Patriot. A team can do the minimum and happen to advance, while the team that puts actual effort in gets shafted. The program is based on random number generators and luck. Very little if any actual knowledge is required!