In the 10th Circuit at least:
http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/10/10-1358.pdf (http://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/10/10-1358.pdf)
QuoteAs the Supreme Court has observed time and again, false statements of fact do not enjoy constitutional protection, except to the extent necessary to protect more valuable speech. Under this principle, the Stolen Valor Act does not impinge on or chill protected speech, and therefore does not offend the First Amendment.
:clap:
The Stolen Valor Act is also on the Supreme Court's Docket. It will be heard in February or March
No arguments from me.
But I still wonder why the actual medals themselves are so readily available to anyone, without proof of award, from so many vendors.
It's possible to obtain nearly everything except the MoH from any number of vendors, including the highest service-specific awards (Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross).
Shouldn't proof of award be required?
It would seem to make sense that they should limit access to some of the higher level medals. Unfortunately there are so many different "vendors" around that that would be impossible to do now. Many are coming from overseas where it is even harder to control.
There are even "vendors" overseas that have made CAP Silver Medals of Valor and tried to pass them off as real. They have one of the on OMSA website. It has 2 rings holding the planchet on.
CAP NHQ is pretty good about verifying people who try to get the SMV/BMV/DSM from them. They verify the records they have. Even though you can find them on eBay sometimes they are less frequent.
Quote from: CyBorg on January 31, 2012, 05:44:51 PM
No arguments from me.
But I still wonder why the actual medals themselves are so readily available to anyone, without proof of award, from so many vendors.
It's possible to obtain nearly everything except the MoH from any number of vendors, including the highest service-specific awards (Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross).
Shouldn't proof of award be required?
Because these awards are designed by the US Government, they are not subject to many of the normal intellectual property protections that yo see in the private sector. For example, there is no copyright or trademark associated with them, and the designs are "public domain" and anyone can manufacture them to the official design.
Quote from: CyBorg on January 31, 2012, 05:44:51 PM
No arguments from me.
But I still wonder why the actual medals themselves are so readily available to anyone, without proof of award, from so many vendors.
It's possible to obtain nearly everything except the MoH from any number of vendors, including the highest service-specific awards (Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross).
Shouldn't proof of award be required?
Do you really want to go to all that trouble to get a replacement?
Really?
You need a medal...you go down to the store and get it. I don't want to have to pull a decorations rib every time I have to go and rebuild my ribbon rack.
Also...think of those people who want to suprise their veteran with a shadow box....now you have to prove not only that they were awarded it...but you legitamly are buying it for them.
NO...IMHO too much work.
Also....let's not make the the vendor somehow responsible for other people's dishonest....if not illegal....act.
Quote from: CyBorg on January 31, 2012, 05:44:51 PM
No arguments from me.
But I still wonder why the actual medals themselves are so readily available to anyone, without proof of award, from so many vendors.
It's possible to obtain nearly everything except the MoH from any number of vendors, including the highest service-specific awards (Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross).
Shouldn't proof of award be required?
Same deal with LE type badges. You can whistle up any number of badges from Podunk PD on the internet, no proof of agency required. Many manufacturers sell them as collectors items, but that doesn't prevent Joe Criminal from having one in his back pocket...
Quote from: Al Sayre on January 31, 2012, 09:34:20 PM
Quote from: CyBorg on January 31, 2012, 05:44:51 PM
No arguments from me.
But I still wonder why the actual medals themselves are so readily available to anyone, without proof of award, from so many vendors.
It's possible to obtain nearly everything except the MoH from any number of vendors, including the highest service-specific awards (Distinguished Service Cross, Air Force Cross, Navy Cross).
Shouldn't proof of award be required?
Same deal with LE type badges. You can whistle up any number of badges from Podunk PD on the internet, no proof of agency required. Many manufacturers sell them as collectors items, but that doesn't prevent Joe Criminal from having one in his back pocket...
Now i'm a gun owner...and a beleiver in a rigous intepetation of the 2d Amendment.....but the same argument can be said about hand guns.
Laws don't prevent criminals from being criminals.......enforcing those laws do. Making it harder for honest people with legetimate reasons to get access to these things is NOT the answer. Hammering those who abuse them is!
Joe blow wants to collect medals....even put them on a uniform in the privacy of his own home......go for it. Joe blow wants to go to the local pub and tell lies.....well....okay...you have not made any freinds who have BTDT....but everyone is entitled to a little "war story" lies....joe blow wears said unifrom.....well now he has crossed the line. Hammer him according to his level of fruad and make sure everyone knows it. But don't make it hard for me to buy medals and ribbons.
Glad they are taking steps against some of these folks. I agree that we should be able to get our decorations without proof and also agree that if anyone wears a uniform with medals they are not entitled too, they should get slammed.
I found a brief that was presented to the Supreme Court. Here is a link
http://www.flagandgeneralofficersnetwork.org/UnitedStatesvAlvarezamicusbrief.pdf (http://www.flagandgeneralofficersnetwork.org/UnitedStatesvAlvarezamicusbrief.pdf)
Care to wager how the Supreme's will come down on this issue? If I was a gambling man, I would bet that SCOTUS will overturn the law on some procedural pretext. Maybe we should start a pool? Who sustains and who dissents?
Major Lord
Or the ACLU comes up and says it's discriminatory in some way, shape or form.
Quote from: Major Lord on February 03, 2012, 03:57:15 PM
Care to wager how the Supreme's will come down on this issue? If I was a gambling man, I would bet that SCOTUS will overturn the law on some procedural pretext. Maybe we should start a pool? Who sustains and who dissents?
Major Lord
Uphold: Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts
Overturn: Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Kagan, Breyer
TBD: Kennedy
I'm gonna lean Kennedy to "Uphold"...mostly. They'll find some nit to pick, but it will be substantially sustained 5-4.
Quote from: a2capt on February 03, 2012, 05:06:53 PM
Or the ACLU comes up and says it's discriminatory in some way, shape or form.
Well, I'm sure that this act will be found to discriminate against persons lacking moral fiber.
Quote from: jks19714 on February 06, 2012, 01:15:00 AM
Quote from: a2capt on February 03, 2012, 05:06:53 PM
Or the ACLU comes up and says it's discriminatory in some way, shape or form.
Well, I'm sure that this act will be found to discriminate against persons lacking moral fiber.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but that shouldn't be illegal, it should be mandatory.