We are a Volunteer Organization. There really are no Tangible benefits for retiring from Civil Air Patrol. Reading the new CAPR 35-1, Why do we require a member do Twenty Years to "Retire"? Why can't we offer the permanent recognition of Retirement after 10 or 12 years of service?
I would think that if we made the goal a little more attainable it might do more to improve our attrition rate. With our current Professional Development program you can top out in about 10 years...But if we have a Level V Lieutenant Colonel who may have had a multitude of assignments of benefit to our organization...and gets burned out he/she can't retire unless they do another 10 years? Comments welcome.
No tangible benefits? More closet space, less paperwork at tax time and your phone doesn't ring off the hook.
Retirement is not a goal in CAP. It, too, is a benefit: you can rejoin with no loss of prior "time served" unlike leaving at 15 years.
No lifetime subscription to the Volunteer?
Quote from: NIN on January 18, 2012, 04:16:41 AM
No tangible benefits? More closet space, less paperwork at tax time and your phone doesn't ring off the hook.
Retirement is not a goal in CAP. It, too, is a benefit: you can rejoin with no loss of prior "time served" unlike leaving at 15 years.
It doesn't cost the organization any money to call you "Retired", that's what I meant by no tangible benefits.
No, it's not a goal for some people, it might be for others. Volunteers are motivated by a multitude of different criteria...everybody is different.
So it's only a benefit if you rejoin? What's the benefit? I think I'm missing it. I had an 18 year hiatus in CAP service, yet my previous time served still counts towards "retirement", so I'm missing your "Time Served" reference.
Why couldn't we recognize someone who did 10 years in lieu of 20?
Quote from: MIKE on January 18, 2012, 04:26:00 AM
No lifetime subscription to the Volunteer?
So it takes twenty years of service to keep you on the email list for the Electronic Copy? Why don't we keep ALL prior members getting the Electronic copy of the volunteer...might spark someone's interest in rejoining?
Since the volunteer is available online, that's a moot point.
I think 10 years is reasonable, and is likely a point of burnout / retention for many members, I know it was for
me. The option of taking a break at 10 years without the loss or hassle of re-upping everything would be a nice-to-have, but not exactly a retention motivator.
Patron membership is essentially the same thing, with the only difference being patrons have to write a check each year and retired members don't.
Who said benefits have to be tangible? If I "retire" after 20 years, I get to remain a member (retired though I may be) of an organization I spent 20 years of my life on. If I leave at 19, I'm just another former member. Warm fuzzies count for something.
I do agree that maybe the number should be less though. 20 years is a heck of a long time to go in a volunteer org, especially one like CAP.
It just sounds nice...Lieutenant Colonel Joe Schmo, CAP (ret), plus you still are a member, of sorts.
It won't be terribly long before I'm eligible for "retirement"...whether or not I take it depends greatly on the way things are in this organisation by the time that comes around.
That's OK. I think I have 7 years until I get my free ride.
In the past according to the Regs at the time you could retire after 12 years.
I was told it works just like retirement from the military. As in after I retire from CAP I'll get 50% of my pay that I was getting prior to retirement.
Jokes on them though. I already did the math!
$0 x .50 = $0
That's 100% of what I get now! Suckkkkkkkeeeerrrrrrrrsssssssss!!!!!!
Quote from: BillB on January 18, 2012, 12:21:44 PM
In the past according to the Regs at the time you could retire after 12 years.
That's what I recall as well, I was wondering what precipitated the Change?
This is another of those places where trying to mirror the military model doesn't fit and should probably just be eliminated, at least in terms of
the terminology - perhaps "vested" or "tenured" would be more appropriate.
Say after 10 years a member's PD level and grade are "locked in", at least outside any adverse actions, etc. This would make more sense in
our paradigm that "retirement".
Quote from: Eclipse on January 18, 2012, 03:16:24 PM
This is another of those places where trying to mirror the military model doesn't fit and should probably just be eliminated, at least in terms of
the terminology - perhaps "vested" or "tenured" would be more appropriate.
Say after 10 years a member's PD level and grade are "locked in", at least outside any adverse actions, etc. This would make more sense in
our paradigm that "retirement".
I actually like this idea, and it does make more sense in terms of what it gains for the members.
IIRC, the CGAUX is 15 years for retirement.
Quote from: MIKE on January 18, 2012, 03:38:15 PM
IIRC, the CGAUX is 15 years for retirement.
That's okay. I've been part of a few Volunteer organizations that actually do have benefits associated with "retirement" Most have the retirement or life membership benchmark at 10-12 years.
Not many CAP members achieve this, but my first squadron commander finally retired because there was very little more for him to do in CAP.
He had been a squadron commander and a wing commander.
He had served on Region staff.
He had completed all five levels of PD.
He had been both a cadet and adult officer.
He had qualified as a Command Pilot.
I asked him "Sir, have you ever thought of being National CC?" He just looked at me and I knew that, no, the Colonel would not be interested!
Retirement once was available with 12 years CAP service; changed some time back, can't recall when or why.
Quote from: ZigZag911 on January 19, 2012, 03:45:15 AM
Retirement once was available with 12 years CAP service; changed some time back, can't recall when or why.
I am guessing that change was 2000. People retired after 12 years and no what they are back next year and then retired again when they felt like it. So I am guessing they figure no one will unretire after 20 years.
BTW, the retirement certificate is really impressive IMHO. :clap:
Quote from: CyBorg on January 18, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Not many CAP members achieve this, but my first squadron commander finally retired because there was very little more for him to do in CAP.
He got tired of flying? Because I know people who have much more impressive resumes who are still doing the routine CAP day to day stuff. Or is it just not fun anymore for him?
Maybe we could let people "buy out" their retirement time. I have 12 years in his Majesty King Obama's 22nd Squadron of the Civil Air Patrol Service, so how about I just pay my dues in advance for the next 8 Years and let me "retire early"? I still get my magazine and can be buried in my uniform without fear that a 39-1 Nazi will dig me up and tear my "flare" and "Bling" off. ( Although I am not sure I want to show up in Valhalla with a non-combatant uniform on....they might send me to Chicago or something worse)
Major Lord
^ Tax law makes this difficult, because the money has to be applied to future years' membership, not current operations.
We had the same issue in the AMA, people who knew they were going to stay in for the long hall could just buy-out their remaining time
to get to Charter Life status and not have to worry about writing a check every year. 2 or so years ago we had to stop this, right around the
same time that NHQ stopped the multi-year renewals.
I don't know if it's an administrative issue internally, or a an actual tax restriction.
There would also be the issue of refunds for those who get kicked.
^ It's not an issue for the IRS as a donation in any one year is deductible to the extent of the regulations; not internal accounting procedures. CAP nixed multi-year renewals because its new membership software made it almost impossible to deal with. Many organizations have multi year memberships; like the AFA, HOG, AUSA, etc.
Quote from: FW on January 19, 2012, 04:58:15 PMCAP nixed multi-year renewals because its new membership software made it almost impossible to deal with.
OK, seriously?
Classic old computers and machines (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaFHrGjy7w0#)
Now, that's funny... :clap:
And to answer the question; yes. 8)
Quote from: FW on January 19, 2012, 04:58:15 PM
^ It's not an issue for the IRS as a donation in any one year is deductible to the extent of the regulations; not internal accounting procedures. CAP nixed multi-year renewals because its new membership software made it almost impossible to deal with. Many organizations have multi year memberships; like the AFA, HOG, AUSA, etc.
Wow - even our little software firm had the ability to post the future years as a deposit and automatically pay a recurring amount from that deposit when billed. And that feature was added years ago to a package that cost less than $5,000.
CAP/FM could have made it happen however, only about 60 members nationwide were taking advantage of the multiyear membership option. The National Board decided it was not worth the time for the staff at HQ to make the changes to the software for so few and, removed the option.
However, there is nothing which prohibits a future NB from approving multiyear, life or, sustaining memberships. All it takes is a vote. BTW; it is still the NB's responsiblity to make these calls.
Quote from: FW on January 19, 2012, 07:07:19 PM
CAP/FM could have made it happen however, only about 60 members nationwide were taking advantage of the multiyear membership option. The National Board decided it was not worth the time for the staff at HQ to make the changes to the software for so few and, removed the option.
However, there is nothing which prohibits a future NB from approving multiyear, life or, sustaining memberships. All it takes is a vote. BTW; it is still the NB's responsiblity to make these calls.
In 1991 the NEC actually passed a paid life membership for $1, 000, and announced it in the CAP News. since then National HQ and the NEC have been denying ever having done it. One person told me it was dropped because they couldn't remove a member for cause if he was a "Life member". I would think that having a special account for Life membership with dues paid out of the interest accrued would be an easy thing to do. Especially since deceased members initial payment would remain in the pool and still be accruing interest without any payouts.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 19, 2012, 03:39:46 PM
^ Tax law makes this difficult, because the money has to be applied to future years' membership, not current operations.
We had the same issue in the AMA, people who knew they were going to stay in for the long hall could just buy-out their remaining time
to get to Charter Life status and not have to worry about writing a check every year. 2 or so years ago we had to stop this, right around the
same time that NHQ stopped the multi-year renewals.
I don't know if it's an administrative issue internally, or a an actual tax restriction.
There would also be the issue of refunds for those who get kicked.
I'm not sure, there are large Tax exempt organizations that allow multi year memberships, the one that jumps in my mind is the Veterans of Foreign Wars...When I joined I just paid the Lifetime membership price and done. No Checks every year.
60? Really? I used it twice, for the three year option each time. It made getting a base sticker a whole lot easier instead of issuing one with a 1 year or less remainder.
It also allowed me to show my faith in the program as a whole.
The web page is still setup for a drop down- though it only has '1' as an option. I certainly did think about an inline edit to make it read '2' and try it just to mess with them one last time ;-)
I always used it for two.
Quote from: a2capt on January 19, 2012, 08:02:25 PM
60? Really? I used it twice, for the three year option each time. It made getting a base sticker a whole lot easier instead of issuing one with a 1 year or less remainder.
Ditto, although knowing the way some members squeeze nickels, I'm not all that surprised.
I used the multi-year thing twice. (Which reminds me, I need to see when I'm eligible to renew this year.) I liked it.
I belong to another 501(c)3 organization, and we've had life memberships for at least 25 years. They are computed according to actuarial tables, in ten year groups, and are recalculated when the annual dues change. I bought in when I turned 54, as did My Sweetie at the same age.
I'm still waiting for my multi-year membership to expire, I did that option twice, for three-years each time. My idea was to avoid future membership fee increases. My thoughts are that is one of the reasons that CAP chose to do away with it, considering that it's the only membership organization that I belong to that costs me more than $20/year for membership (We need more money! Raise dues!).