Can cedets wear a campain hat? When in BDU's.
No.
No CAP member may wear a campaign hat in uniform at all. Please read CAPM39-1.
Absolutely not, the only authorized headgear for BDU's is an AF/Army style woodland BDU patrol hat, a squadron designated hat while at the squadron, or the blue beret for NBB grads, and that is only if approved.
And where did you get the idea that a "campaign hat" was allowed?
Quote from: cadetesman on January 18, 2012, 03:34:36 AM
And where did you get the idea that a "campaign hat" was allowed?
FWIW my Basic Encampment Command Chief wore a blue campaign cover very similar to the AF TI campaign cover (but different).
***Those are just the facts. I'm not saying it's right...***
Quote from: cadetesman on January 18, 2012, 03:34:36 AM
Absolutely not, the only authorized headgear for BDU's is an AF/Army style woodland BDU patrol hat, a squadron designated hat while at the squadron, or the blue beret for NBB grads, and that is only if approved.
And where did you get the idea that a "campaign hat" was allowed?
Question:
Could a unit commander not authorize one for use at the squadron level? I have not read the reg recently but I do think that there might some leeway at a commander's discretion for squadron level activities only....
I could be wrong as I said have not read 39-1 in depth on that yet
They can auhorize baseball caps... If I'm not mistaken.
Quote from: rustyjeeper on January 18, 2012, 03:52:54 AM
Question:
Could a unit commander not authorize one for use at the squadron level? I have not read the reg recently but I do think that there might some leeway at a commander's discretion for squadron level activities only....
I could be wrong as I said have not read 39-1 in depth on that yet
No. There are no circumstances in 39-1 where anyone can authorize a Campaign Hat. Unless an Official Uniform change comes from NHQ/NB/ Nat CC.
39-1 states
QuoteCivil Air Patrol prescribes wear policy and the use of CAP emblems, insignia, and badges on the CAP distinctive uniforms. Table 1-3 describes items that may be authorized by wing/region commanders. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear
Quote from: SARDOC on January 18, 2012, 04:00:06 AM
Quote from: rustyjeeper on January 18, 2012, 03:52:54 AM
Question:
Could a unit commander not authorize one for use at the squadron level? I have not read the reg recently but I do think that there might some leeway at a commander's discretion for squadron level activities only....
I could be wrong as I said have not read 39-1 in depth on that yet
No. There are no circumstances in 39-1 where anyone can authorize a Campaign Hat. Unless an Official Uniform change comes from NHQ/NB/ Nat CC.
39-1 states
QuoteCivil Air Patrol prescribes wear policy and the use of CAP emblems, insignia, and badges on the CAP distinctive uniforms. Table 1-3 describes items that may be authorized by wing/region commanders. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. Any variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear
Sigh..........
once again things I recall from WIWAC have changed for the worse. We used to have the round browns for our flight sergeants and they dropped us plenty wayyyyyyyyyyy back when
sometimes I dont like all of the changes I see
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on January 18, 2012, 03:56:24 AM
They can auhorize baseball caps... If I'm not mistaken.
A Unit Commander can authorize a Baseball style hat.
Hey, new folks -
Take a closer look at your quote structure before you post, and use the preview button. The big problem appears to be not scrolling all the way to the bottom of the quoted post before typing in your response.
If you look at the bottom border of the entry window, there's a little widget that you can grab and pull down to make the window larger. This makes the entirety of a long post visible.
Quote from: SarDragon on January 18, 2012, 04:08:57 AM
Hey, new folks -
Take a closer look at your quote structure before you post, and use the preview button. The big problem appears to be not scrolling all the way to the bottom of the quoted post before typing in your response.
If you look at the bottom border of the entry window, there's a little widget that you can grab and pull down to make the window larger. This makes the entirety of a long post visible.
My apologies, problem corrected. Thanks for letting me know!
No. Even former MTI's cannot wear the campaign hat in CAP.
One of my former units had a retired Army Drill Sergeant who came into CAP as a MSgt. He could not wear a campaign hat of any kind.
Getting approved to wear a campaign hat can be achieved. Simply join a branch of military service that uses them in their basic training (Air Force, Army,USMC). Stay in eight plus years and do a stellar job. Go to their Drill Sgt/DI/TI course which is about six months and not easy by a long shot. Then spend the next two years working with fresh recruits who don't know ANYthing putting in about 60-80 hours a week. That's all that's required.
Still can't wear it at CAP though even after all that.
And what is it that we are teaching those very same cadets when we tell them they can wear something that is clearly not allowed by regs? Whether it's a cap of some kind, a civilian coat with their BDU's (I know it gets cold in some places, but shouldn't we be stressing the 'uniformity' of uniforms) or any other item or practice for that matter?
And we seem to compound the problem by often allowing Senior member uniforms to be 'worn as desired', while at the same time telling our cadets that their uniforms must match inspections requirements, etc. If you doubt this, go ask five cadets their honest opinion of SM uniform wear.
To essentially tell cadets some form of 'Well, that's OK, we allow it in this Squadron, or Group, or Wing or activity' seems to fly in the face of the practices of good Followership and Leadership.
I have the option of wearing one at work (law enforcement) I tried it for a couple days because it actually looked pretty cool. Now I HATE IT. In fact, in an 1,100 man agency, nobody wears them except for the honor guard.
You could wear it with any corporate uniform. There isn't any headwear prescribed or proscribed for corporate threads. [/devil's advocate]
Quote from: Pylon on January 18, 2012, 03:10:50 PM
You could wear it with any corporate uniform. There isn't any headwear prescribed or proscribed for corporate threads. [/devil's advocate]
For the Aviator uniform the Distinctive Corporate the CAPM 39-1 offers this
QuoteHeadgear is not required but a CAP baseball cap may be worn.
Hmmmmmm---campaign hat with blue polo and gray slacks????? Or, likewise, campaign hat with cadet PT uniform.
That ought to be good for at least 12-13 pages of comments.
Anyone wearing a campain campaign hat in CAP deserves all the wedgies they receive.
Didn't we already do this thread? I remember a photo of some encampment where the "command chief" was was sporting a smokey bear.
Quote from: bosshawk on January 18, 2012, 03:45:15 PM
Hmmmmmm---campaign hat with blue polo and gray slacks?????
It has to be a gray campaign hat >:D.
Actually I was thinking more of red, pink or chartreuss.
The ideal CAP uniform: dress blues, tennis shoes and a light coat of oil. Maybe with a pink campaign hat.
..or a beret
When I read this I was like @#$$%#@@)(&!####)$#%!!!SERIOUSLY!
Im thinking troll......If not arrange a base tour at Lackland or Maxwell and wear it. Let me know how it works out for you. TTYL I have to go fly now(I am wearing my
50 mission crush cap). >:D
Indiana Jones style hat. Gray. That's what I'm talking about!
how about a gray campaign hat with the soon to come ABU's >:D???
Gray...
Ummm campaign hat really? Theres a psyche factor that goes with that outside of distinguishing the MTI/DIs and the LE agencies that wear them, what would it achieve? And don't get me started on berets at all, I recall when the Army went to em.
Decades ago when I was a Boy Scout, there was a dark-green one available, but it was for Scoutmasters only, I think.
Quote from: capmaj on January 18, 2012, 02:27:48 PM
And what is it that we are teaching those very same cadets when we tell them they can wear something that is clearly not allowed by regs? Whether it's a cap of some kind, a civilian coat with their BDU's (I know it gets cold in some places, but shouldn't we be stressing the 'uniformity' of uniforms) or any other item or practice for that matter?
And we seem to compound the problem by often allowing Senior member uniforms to be 'worn as desired', while at the same time telling our cadets that their uniforms must match inspections requirements, etc. If you doubt this, go ask five cadets their honest opinion of SM uniform wear.
To essentially tell cadets some form of 'Well, that's OK, we allow it in this Squadron, or Group, or Wing or activity' seems to fly in the face of the practices of good Followership and Leadership.
I think one problem here is, that is exactly what we are working with here. Cadets, kids, 12 year olds, that we are responsible for. If I have some little 12 year old freezing his/her tush in inclimate weather, I'm going to get them into a jacket or coat wheter or not it's military or civilian. If they were adults in the military getting paid to put up with cold weather and rain, snow, what ever, then that would be different. A lot of these kids are just cub scouts or girl scouts dressed in a CAP ubiform. We should be looking out for the youngsters.
This is the only person outside of a MTI(any branch) or a State Trooper I have ever seen that can wear a "smokie" and make it look cool.
http://www.museumofcinema.com/2011/04/22/behind-the-scenes-on-the-professionals-1966/ (http://www.museumofcinema.com/2011/04/22/behind-the-scenes-on-the-professionals-1966/)
What about...
(http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/original/46663.jpg)
It's a Mounty.
Quote from: CyBorg on January 19, 2012, 02:26:35 AM
What about...
(http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/original/46663.jpg)
In the Canadian version of the proper Queen's English, that would be "What aboot...."
It's actually the late, hilarious Leslie Nielsen, playing a Royal Canadian Mounted Police sergeant in an episode of Due South.
His father was actually a Mountie, and his brother, Erik, was Deputy Prime Minister of Canada in one of the Mulroney governments.
Leslie himself was a WWII Royal Canadian Air Force veteran.
Lee Marvin has every right to wear a campaign cover. When he served in the Marine Corps the campaign cover was an approved cover for Marines, not just DIs.
Quote from: Flying Pig on January 18, 2012, 02:28:41 PM
I have the option of wearing one at work (law enforcement) I tried it for a couple days because it actually looked pretty cool. Now I HATE IT. In fact, in an 1,100 man agency, nobody wears them except for the honor guard.
I wrote the request for the Uniform Committee at my department to adopt the campaign hat. I actually like wearing hats and I am not bald yet :clap:
Quote from: stillamarine on January 19, 2012, 08:20:38 AM
Lee Marvin has every right to wear a campaign cover. When he served in the Marine Corps the campaign cover was an approved cover for Marines, not just DIs.
USMC Range Staff wears campaign hats too. Have you ever seen a smokey on a commissioned or warrant officer?
Quote from: Flying Pig on January 18, 2012, 02:28:41 PM
I have the option of wearing one at work (law enforcement) I tried it for a couple days because it actually looked pretty cool. Now I HATE IT. In fact, in an 1,100 man agency, nobody wears them except for the honor guard.
The CHP seems to like them, but I think they stand around in the sun a lot. I am still waiting to here one say;" Y'all in a heap a' trouble boy!" . I heard they played the "skin cancer safety card" to get their hats, but it could be an urban myth. Boy Scouts at one point had red berets, and campaign hats. Somewhere between Baden Powell and the fall of the Berlin wall......
Major Lord
meanwhile I'll just keep thinking about wearing my black Stetson with crossed sabers, wings, & rank to the front and regimental and CAP badges on the rear. Yeah, that'l work.
Quote from: Grumpy on January 18, 2012, 09:53:01 PM
Quote from: capmaj on January 18, 2012, 02:27:48 PM
And what is it that we are teaching those very same cadets when we tell them they can wear something that is clearly not allowed by regs? Whether it's a cap of some kind, a civilian coat with their BDU's (I know it gets cold in some places, but shouldn't we be stressing the 'uniformity' of uniforms) or any other item or practice for that matter?
And we seem to compound the problem by often allowing Senior member uniforms to be 'worn as desired', while at the same time telling our cadets that their uniforms must match inspections requirements, etc. If you doubt this, go ask five cadets their honest opinion of SM uniform wear.
To essentially tell cadets some form of 'Well, that's OK, we allow it in this Squadron, or Group, or Wing or activity' seems to fly in the face of the practices of good Followership and Leadership.
I think one problem here is, that is exactly what we are working with here. Cadets, kids, 12 year olds, that we are responsible for. If I have some little 12 year old freezing his/her tush in inclimate weather, I'm going to get them into a jacket or coat wheter or not it's military or civilian. If they were adults in the military getting paid to put up with cold weather and rain, snow, what ever, then that would be different. A lot of these kids are just cub scouts or girl scouts dressed in a CAP ubiform. We should be looking out for the youngsters.
Then they don't belong there to start with. Being sent home can be just the lesson a cadet or senior member needs to understand that rules apply to everyone and ours are not a menu.
Our cadets are not "just scouts in different uniforms", and one of the reasons is the higher expectations. Again, we spend far too much time worrying about the exceptions and planning around them instead of just ironing them out. As someone who managed a large cadet activity for nearly a decade
in a cold, unpredictable climate, the reality was that we had to make exceptions because "such is life", but we always made sure that the cadets understood that they were enjoying an exception, one which they needed to correct as soon as possible.
As capmaj points out, a lot of our members do not seem to understand the distinction between "field expediency / emergency" and "everyday wear".
If, you're trapped in the woods and have to kill a skunk and make a hat out of it to stay alive, so be it. But you're not allowed to show up with the skunk
on your head, nor wear the skunk to meetings after you're rescued "because of safety".
Okay.....well if we are going to go down this road.
Here is my suggestion.
Cadet Membership will cost around $400.
That will get a cadet a full service dress, full BDU with proper boots, and apprpriate cold weather gear.
Any other argument over "everyday wear of civilian jackets" that does not include the CAP providing the "required" cold weather gear is just assinine.
Cold weather activities are not a mandated part of the cadet program, however if you choose to participate, you must wear the uniform correctly.
Isn't that attention to detail part of the program and the life lessons?
And which are we talking about - the cadet who is so financially strapped that they aren't likely to be in ES anyway, or the ones who are wearing
$350 worth of Molle gear that they ordered on their new iPhone, and then say they can't afford a $20 M65?
Or worse, intentionally buy an ABU or ACU jacket because it is "kewl" and then tell you it is "all I have"?
The regs say we can't mandate anything (for cadets) we don't issue (at least in as much as barring participation because of it), yet they offer no relief
to 100% proper configuration, either.
Quote from: lordmonar on January 19, 2012, 03:19:39 PM
Okay.....well if we are going to go down this road.
Here is my suggestion.
Cadet Membership will cost around $400.
That will get a cadet a full service dress, full BDU with proper boots, and apprpriate cold weather gear.
Any other argument over "everyday wear of civilian jackets" that does not include the CAP providing the "required" cold weather gear is just assinine.
Amen to that.
Quote from: Private Investigator on January 19, 2012, 12:54:57 PM
Quote from: stillamarine on January 19, 2012, 08:20:38 AM
Lee Marvin has every right to wear a campaign cover. When he served in the Marine Corps the campaign cover was an approved cover for Marines, not just DIs.
USMC Range Staff wears campaign hats too. Have you ever seen a smokey on a commissioned or warrant officer?
A historical note, the USMC Primary Marksmanship Instructors were authorized to wear them before DIs were. However they can only wear them while performing their duties. When they leave the base or are not engaged in their duties they cant wear them.
In the CHP, officers Sgt and below wear the smokey and Lt and higher wear the crushed bus driver hat
Quote from: Eclipse on January 19, 2012, 03:32:15 PM
Cold weather activities are not a mandated part of the cadet program, however if you choose to participate, you must wear the uniform correctly.
Isn't that attention to detail part of the program and the life lessons?
And which are we talking about - the cadet who is so financially strapped that they aren't likely to be in ES anyway, or the ones who are wearing
$350 worth of Molle gear that they ordered on their new iPhone, and then say they can't afford a $20 M65?
Or worse, intentionally buy an ABU or ACU jacket because it is "kewl" and then tell you it is "all I have"?
The regs say we can't mandate anything (for cadets) we don't issue (at least in as much as barring participation because of it), yet they offer no relief
to 100% proper configuration, either.
As a minimum everyone will need an all weather coat at about $88 each. NEW M-65s are NOT $20.....they run about $75......get your head out of the surplus store.
I did not say anything about molley gear....I am simply talking about normal uniforms.
One set of Service Dress and one set of BDU's with approriate jackets is going to cost.
Sure...we can say....that's the cost....and make them pay. But that concept is contrary to the stated goals of the Cadet Program.
^ You're trying to pick and choose the reality of CAP to suit your argument.
Quote from: Major Lord on January 19, 2012, 01:10:02 PM
The CHP seems to like them, but I think they stand around in the sun a lot.
I am trying to imagine Erik Estrada and Larry Wilcox wearing "smokies."
Quote from: Major Lord on January 19, 2012, 01:10:02 PM
Boy Scouts at one point had red berets, and campaign hats. Somewhere between Baden Powell and the fall of the Berlin wall......
I remember seeing the campaign hats in supply catalogues when I was a Scout, mid-70s to early 80s, but I cannot recall that I ever saw one being worn.
I had the red beret. One of the troops I was in chose it as its headgear. I also had the garrison cap and a khaki baseball cap with the Scout emblem.
There was an alternative uniform back then for the "Leadership Corps;" it was forest-green with a leather belt, no neckerchief and the red beret. As a Senior Patrol Leader and Junior Assistant Scoutmaster I could have worn one but my parents couldn't afford it.
The Scouts were pretty easy-going with uniforms back then (this was just before the tan shirt with red epaulette slides came in). A lot of us got our uniforms at Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc.; some were the old ones with collars, scalloped pockets and "Boy Scouts Of America" title above the pocket. Of course, I grew up in a fairly disadvantaged area and that was all a lot of us could afford.
I wonder how many cadets find themselves in that same unfortunate position and feel discouraged from joining CAP because of it? I know we're supposed to provide initial issue to them but for some that's a long time coming.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 19, 2012, 05:27:21 PM
^ You're trying to pick and choose the reality of CAP to suit your argument.
You bet!
I have never said I am not above a little bit of real politics.
If you are going to being me and my squadron to task because when it is cold...I tell my cadets and SM to wear an appropriate jacket....at meetings, in the field, on missions, at SAREX......well so be it.
I am not going to tell them they can't participate.
I am not going to hold up drill and ceremony practice because it is cold.
I am not going to risk my cadet's health and safety.
So I order them to violate the regulations.
That's called leadership. Now....should I be proud that I do that? No......but I have to get the mission done. That is leadership. Uniforms and presenting a good image is very important....but not as imporatant as getting my cadets through their required training with out them catching cold.
I still assert that allowing a non-regulatory practice to continue for the sake of 'getting things done' sends the wrong message to cadets who are in an organization that patterns itself after a military service and in fact advertises itself as a great precursor to military service, i.e. advanced placement in the USAFA or E3 status for Mitchell awardees.
When the cadets in question are meeting on a military base, particularly on a USAF installation, even more 'negative attention' is brought to bear. I'm not sure that someone observing cadets coming to and fro on the base wearing Service dress and/or BDU's while wearing civilian coats or covers send the professional image we strive for. While we are not truly a 'military' organization, the person observing us just knows that the cadet in question is wearing USAF-style items along with their red or purple ski jacket. Not the image we or the cadets should be going for.
When a cadet has made several appearances in a private coat or cap or what-ever, but at the same time has monies to attend a special activity or squadron event, it is time to evaluate where the priorities lie.
Quote from: capmaj on January 19, 2012, 08:41:34 PM
I still assert that allowing a non-regulatory practice to continue for the sake of 'getting things done' sends the wrong message to cadets who are in an organization that patterns itself after a military service and in fact advertises itself as a great precursor to military service, i.e. advanced placement in the USAFA or E3 status for Mitchell awardees.
When the cadets in question are meeting on a military base, particularly on a USAF installation, even more 'negative attention' is brought to bear. I'm not sure that someone observing cadets coming to and fro on the base wearing Service dress and/or BDU's while wearing civilian coats or covers send the professional image we strive for. While we are not truly a 'military' organization, the person observing us just knows that the cadet in question is wearing USAF-style items along with their red or purple ski jacket. Not the image we or the cadets should be going for.
When a cadet has made several appearances in a private coat or cap or what-ever, but at the same time has monies to attend a special activity or squadron event, it is time to evaluate where the priorities lie.
I agree to a point.
But what am I supposed to do?
Okay...it's 35 degree outside....we all need to do drill.....you can't afford an all weather coat or a field jacket...I can't let you freeze....I guess you have to quit.
Not acceptable.
I meet on an USAF base....I am retired USAF.....and we wear our civilian jackets. If anyone has heart burn...I'll explain.
Does it send the wrong message? NO....not really....it sends a message about real leadership that most young people are no ready to learn....but anyone who has spend time in the military knows.....there is a time, place and way to violate regulations.
Getting the mission done, safely is one of those times.
Quote from: capmaj on January 19, 2012, 08:41:34 PM
When the cadets in question are meeting on a military base, particularly on a USAF installation, even more 'negative attention' is brought to bear. I'm not sure that someone observing cadets coming to and fro on the base wearing Service dress and/or BDU's while wearing civilian coats or covers send the professional image we strive for. While we are not truly a 'military' organization, the person observing us just knows that the cadet in question is wearing USAF-style items along with their red or purple ski jacket. Not the image we or the cadets should be going for.
While I agree with the sentiment, as a practical matter, there's not a lot that we can do about it. CAP/USAF does not issue proper outerwear, and our own regulations state that commanders "may require cadets to wear other optional uniform items only if the purchase is voluntary or if the uniform is supplied without expense to the cadet."
With those constraints, do we suspend all activity during the winter months, forbid the wear of adequate clothing because it's not uniform, or suck it up and make the best of a bad situation?
Quote from: lordmonar on January 19, 2012, 09:36:40 PM
Quote from: capmaj on January 19, 2012, 08:41:34 PM
I still assert that allowing a non-regulatory practice to continue for the sake of 'getting things done' sends the wrong message to cadets who are in an organization that patterns itself after a military service and in fact advertises itself as a great precursor to military service, i.e. advanced placement in the USAFA or E3 status for Mitchell awardees.
When the cadets in question are meeting on a military base, particularly on a USAF installation, even more 'negative attention' is brought to bear. I'm not sure that someone observing cadets coming to and fro on the base wearing Service dress and/or BDU's while wearing civilian coats or covers send the professional image we strive for. While we are not truly a 'military' organization, the person observing us just knows that the cadet in question is wearing USAF-style items along with their red or purple ski jacket. Not the image we or the cadets should be going for.
When a cadet has made several appearances in a private coat or cap or what-ever, but at the same time has monies to attend a special activity or squadron event, it is time to evaluate where the priorities lie.
I agree to a point.
But what am I supposed to do?
Okay...it's 35 degree outside....we all need to do drill.....you can't afford an all weather coat or a field jacket...I can't let you freeze....I guess you have to quit.
Not acceptable.
I meet on an USAF base....I am retired USAF.....and we wear our civilian jackets. If anyone has heart burn...I'll explain.
Does it send the wrong message? NO....not really....it sends a message about real leadership that most young people are no ready to learn....but anyone who has spend time in the military knows.....there is a time, place and way to violate regulations.
Getting the mission done, safely is one of those times.
I concur if mission requires you to be outside in the old and proper issue gear isnt or hasn't been given or attained then civilian equivalent is authorized
Those who live and breathe the "regulation" mantra are likely those who never anywhere IMHO. Not allowing common-sense as well as mission completion to factor into whatever wa are trying to accomplish would likely not even last as mallcops (sorry to any mallcops I might have offended, I was one of them long, long ago ;) )
We need to teach cadets resposibility and leadership NOT to be lemmings! There is a time and a place to "bend" from the regulation when neccesary to stay safe or get something done.
There is no command anywhere that does not know this. The regulations exist for a reason and are meant to be followed as best we can. That is all that we can do and we must use our own judgement when it comes to safety or emergency decisions.
If in uniform on a boat taking on water/and only PINK life jackets do we really need to consult 39-1 and refuse to wear if it is out of regulation????
Sadly, I think some here would say yes. Dont wear it. Fortunately over time Darwin removes those from our midst; unfortunately it can take years to see it happen.......
This Topic is getting derailed.
Under no Circumstances should a Campaign Hat be worn... The Survival examples above in no way shape or form apply to a Campaign Hat.
Drill inside.
Quote from: rustyjeeper on January 19, 2012, 10:04:35 PMIf in uniform on a boat taking on water/and only PINK life jackets do we really need to consult 39-1 and refuse to wear if it is out of regulation????
As I mentioned in this thread, there is a world of difference between field expediency / emergency and "planned operations", but a lot of people
like to interchange them just to justify their position.
Cadet should not be outside drilling if it is 35°, if for some reason it is require that the do, then yes, you need to plan better and get them the proper, correct clothes.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 19, 2012, 10:39:28 PM
Drill inside.
Unfortunately, not always an option.
Quote from: SARDOC on January 19, 2012, 10:31:20 PM
This Topic is getting derailed.
Under no Circumstances should a Campaign Hat be worn... The Survival examples above in no way shape or form apply to a Campaign Hat.
Tic-toc-tic-toc-tic-toc
Quote from: SARDOC on January 19, 2012, 10:31:20 PM
This Topic is getting derailed.
Under no Circumstances should a Campaign Hat be worn... The Survival examples above in no way shape or form apply to a Campaign Hat.
I thought we already established that!
Quote from: lordmonar on January 19, 2012, 10:52:42 PM
Quote from: SARDOC on January 19, 2012, 10:31:20 PM
This Topic is getting derailed.
Under no Circumstances should a Campaign Hat be worn... The Survival examples above in no way shape or form apply to a Campaign Hat.
I thought we already established that!
I thought so too...but the thread still continued the drift..
Quote from: Eclipse on January 19, 2012, 10:39:28 PM
Drill inside.
Quote from: rustyjeeper on January 19, 2012, 10:04:35 PMIf in uniform on a boat taking on water/and only PINK life jackets do we really need to consult 39-1 and refuse to wear if it is out of regulation????
As I mentioned in this thread, there is a world of difference between field expediency / emergency and "planned operations", but a lot of people
like to interchange them just to justify their position.
Cadet should not be outside drilling if it is 35°, if for some reason it is require that the do, then yes, you need to plan better and get them the proper, correct clothes.
I beileive that is what I said.....in your world we would either only accept the cadets who can afford to buy all weather jackets, do massive fund raising to buy all weather jackets or just NOT do drill from Novemeber to March.
Unacceptable.
Feel free to report me to my wing, region and national commanders for my blantant disregard for the regulations.
I appolgies for not being able to "plan" on getting my cadets the proper, correct clothes.