Can any of you give any suggestions on ways to inspire folks into taking the AFIADL 00013 course? I don't understand what the big deal is. You just study the material and take a little test. I'm currently taking the course myself.
However, if there is one stumbling block in the my squadron's PD program it's the completion of this course, and I've heard that's common. All of our 1st Lt's still need to take this course. For about half of them, if they completed it they would be immediately eligible for promotion to Captain as they have satisfied all the other requirements.
Well, there are two lines of thought; the regular way and the road less traveled.
The regular way that the majority of seniors complete CAPSOC is memorize the end-of-chapter questions.
---I can spot these folks a mile away
The other way is to actually learn the material and attempt to integrate what you've leaned (usually with some help of copied notes) into what you are doing in CAP (and maybe life also.)
---These are as common as a blue moon
I know what my mentor expected of me when I took this (and I had one HECKUVA CAP mentor.)
Shoot for the latter!
If you and your comrades try the latter, especially together, you might find yourselves becoming "checks and balances" on the other, so as to reinforce the material.
I know it sounds obvious, but have you asked them why they don't want to take the course? Perhaps there is some misconception about the course. Perhaps they see it as a waste of time. Perhaps they don't see how they could apply it to the real world. Perhaps they are just busy. Perhaps they aren't interested in promotions.
I dunno. I'm a big fan of any PD/PME courses. I just can't always find the time to fit them in.
I, for one, learn much better in a classroom environment. Correspondence courses in general, and AFIADL 13 specifically, are boring, and I quickly lose interest. With little interest, I don't retain the material. Another factor was the repetition of material from other times and places. Had it all been new, I think it would have gone better.
Quote from: shorning on January 23, 2007, 09:23:46 PM
I know it sounds obvious, but have you asked them why they don't want to take the course? Perhaps there is some misconception about the course. Perhaps they see it as a waste of time. Perhaps they don't see how they could apply it to the real world. Perhaps they are just busy. Perhaps they aren't interested in promotions.
I dunno. I'm a big fan of any PD/PME courses. I just can't always find the time to fit them in.
Speak of, how's SOS goin sir?
IIRC I took mine pretty quick after getting in. Stayed pretty busy with one thing after another alternating between PD or spec track or ES. Didn't have time to stop & think about getting lazy. I actually learned the material, multi-color highlighters & all. Didn't bother with the review questions. Didn't know they were the same till you guys were talking about it. Best thing I can recommend is get a group of people to enroll at the same time & work it together, maybe even get a more experienced member to review it & teach it as a class. Some of it's a little dry - linebacker II & all, but I liked the comm stuff alright. I can't remember think any of it was a challenge & I was maybe 19 at the time. It's not remotely scary. Just spend some time & do it. Hell, burn a weekend & be done with it.
Quote from: DNall on January 23, 2007, 11:22:58 PM
Speak of, how's SOS goin sir?
Never have taken SOS. No time for a third tier of PME right now.
Sorry bout that, thought you'd said a couple months back you were taking in just to see the funny looks having it on the wall. My bad.
Some of my compatriots and I took SOS and ACSC with the intent of getting exposure to at least some of the knowledgebase that a USAF Captain/Major would have (checking the boxes for Levels III & IV was a plus.)
The idea that members don't care to learn the history or fundamentals of their organization (and their sponsor) is beyond me.
I remember a Squadron Commander who after a year of command, lobbied his Group Commander for promotion to Captain. The Group CC agreed on the condition that the Sqdn CC complete ECI-13 (also adding that the promotion was solely at his discretion, which is true.) The Sqdn CC refused to take the course, did an "end-run" around the Gp CC directly to Wing, and wangled the promotion anyway. That was an obvious chain of dysfunctional events, the heart of which was a guy who had no desire to learn about the organization that he supposedly helped lead. This guy was a Cadet Sqdn CC: how could he motivate cadets to progress in the program when his own membership development was stuck in 2nd gear??
Food for thought: if you had to send a handful of Seniors to actively participate in some kind of USAF leadership symposium, who would you send? Who would you NOT send? Which of the preceding categories has more people??
While it's true that in CAP rank and position are often disjointed, progressing through the PD program (and the rank that comes with it) indicates a committment to learning and teaching the workings of the organization. Folks need to round out their membership, as it lends more credibility when members try to communicate across CAP functional lines: a CAP Major might carry a bit more leverage when speaking to a group (CAP, Military or Civilian) than a 2nd Lt. would.
Probably the best thing they could do is actually re-write the texts and hire a professional to design the test questions.
I can honestly say that this was absolutely the worst thing I've ever read and the questions were horrible. I have a very hard time generating any enthusiasm to get other members to take it when my experience was so bad.
I had a retired command E-9 refuse to take the test for several months...he couldnt believe we were so backwards to have such a screwed up exam...he demanded we get him the corrected course/test. HE ended up taking it but has sworn off all other CAP type tests. He has all his NCO schools so his PME is done. He thought SLS was a joke too. But then again so did I.
That said, my SLS had over a dozen folks who had signed a check within a week of attending so for them I can imagine it had value.
I took the course way back in the early 90's and thought it was one of THE WORST courses I was ever subjected to. (And I've taken many military and civilian courses).
I never took the course, just the test itself. Still not sure how some of those questions were relevant to CAP, but I guess I'll have to take their word for it.
It isn't HORRIBLE. It needs work for sure, and lots of it, but you need to get that basic comm stuff across. AFIADL13, SLS, & Lvl I combined are the equiv material of about a third to half the pre-course modules you're supposed to do BEFORE showing up to real OTS. RSC covers much of the same stuff from OTS. Just for frame of refrence.
I just project officer'd a SLS/CLC this past wknd & it was pretty good. Yeah most of the SLS students (19) were within 6-8 months in, some 1LTs. Everything we do locally though is enhanced from what natioanl requires. If you run their slides & literature, yeah it would suck bad. SLS does belong in Lvl I though FOR SURE! The CLC class I think got less out of it. People seem to take SLS pronto, but don't get to CLC till they have to, so there's a pretty good gap there & most of the sudents are beyond the material by then.
We all know new SLS/CLC material is coming out & that they are trying to incorporate teh material from AFIADL 13 into both Lvl 1 & SLS so the course can go away. I think that's fine, but I'd like to keep a DL course there & enhance the content to cover that aformentioned gap in development, and put some real strong practical leadership/mgmt material in it.
QuoteIt isn't HORRIBLE. It needs work for sure, and lots of it, but you need to get that basic comm stuff across.
I don't think anyone was commenting on the subject matter. It was just the way it was presented that was horrible.
Quote from: DNall on January 25, 2007, 02:10:08 PM
We all know new SLS/CLC material is coming out & that they are trying to incorporate teh material from AFIADL 13 into both Lvl 1 & SLS so the course can go away. I think that's fine, but I'd like to keep a DL course there & enhance the content to cover that aformentioned gap in development, and put some real strong practical leadership/mgmt material in it.
I once heard that AFIADL had once considered a DL version of ASBC.
However, when I asked one of the ILWG's Res. Assistance Officers about it, he had no idea what ASBC was and for all practical purposes thought i was full of warm brown organic matter. :-\
The first two/three part of SOS DL cover the materail from ASBC. Or so I've been told.
ASBC is designed to be a resident course and ALL new 2nd Lt's attend regardless of component, so a correspondence version really isn't needed.
ASBC was still in its infancy when I took SOS: at that time, there were still entry-level officer curriculum modules like "Officership and The Profession of Arms" (which is a bit redundant, because AFROTC and OTS covers the material anyway.)
Pretty soon, all USAF 1st Lt's/Capt's will have taken ASBC (priors who haven't will by then have moved on to Maj, or left the service) so SOS's curriculum focus will shift a bit, and probably won't include some of the USAF-101 courses.
AWC was recently overhauled, with a more intensive writing requirement. I wouldn't be surprised of ACSC follows suit.
OK, but the question remains: WHEN (hopefully not IF) the 00013 gets absorbed into SLS / OTS we still need an entry-level PME course.
So if its not ASBC what could we use? Although I HATE the "INC" that is CAP Ill go on a limb and ask this: could NHQ or AU fund a management/ leadership CERTIFICATE -through an online college perhaps- or CCAF or AFIADL... certificate being the level below associates degree
The commander of AU (or AETC?) has offered assistance to help CAP develop professional education courses (no TDY monies, though). Why hasn't NHQ taken them up on this offer? Or have they and just didn't tell the rank and file members?
Quote from: arajca on January 26, 2007, 02:05:34 AM
The first two/three part of SOS DL cover the materail from ASBC. Or so I've been told.
First 2 parts: Profession of Armns & Military studies. Doesn't include AF-101 aspects at all. Remember a lot of non-AF people (other services, civilians, contractors, foreign officers) take the SOS correspondence course also.
ASBC has some other critical material. The point of that course is for NEW officers to convert the theory they just learned in their commissioning program to practical field leadership skills w/ a mission centric attitude. It's assumed that's worked itself out by the time you reach Captain so that just hit the major academic toipics.
The in-res SOS course adds a significant practical portion. It covers dealing with the media & requires actually doing briefings, highlights a few other major extra duty job fields all officers should understand, again in that individually evaluated hands-on way. Basically what our SLS
should be. And, during thsi whole process you're being watched like a hawk to see who should be plucked & groomed for command versus people that have just been getting by on the hype.
Far as an entry level PME, some of us here have been working the idea in the background of a CAP specific Officer Basic Course for Lts. The idea being like that of ASBC that turns theory to practical & lights the fire on mission-first, executing 10 priciples of leadership, etc. The idea was to make this also serve as the transition course for military officers coming over in grade, people like doctors taking advanced promotions but locked to a non-line career field (CFII would sitll do the regular entry level OTS like everyone else before being bumped up in grade, then would do this course), and for Reserve personnel coming over to work w/ CAP (ECI13 was once used for that purpose).
Quote from: arajca on January 26, 2007, 05:08:25 AM
The commander of AU (or AETC?) has offered assistance to help CAP develop professional education courses (no TDY monies, though). Why hasn't NHQ taken them up on this offer? Or have they and just didn't tell the rank and file members?
AU. Made a special effort to deliver the message too. A lot of the OTS & OBC concepts we're working lean heavily on that offer. I'd be willing to spend within reason from the CAP budget to cover the low personnel costs that may be incurred.
I think AFIADL 00013 should be required before becoming eligible for 2Lt.
Have you thought of creating a study group? Make an event out of the 13. Let people get together and read/discuss the material. Some of our older members are put off by the "distance learning/online" course designation. Some don't have the motivation to do it on their own. Some feel it may be more difficult than it is. Create a positive feel... a study group can do that and can be a good place to discuss the different parts of CAP, Air Force, and our operations/history. Could lead to a general concensus of your members on major issues (I find the lack of it to be an all too common problem in CAP.)
Invite some cadet officers/senior NCOs too. Not all will have to take the exam, but all could learn from the material. It'll provide some bonding in a composite squadron too.
I would love to see AU or somebody update/correct the errors in the 00013. And Id really love for a CAP ASBC to get developed.
Can anyone tell me how the 00013 / ECI-13 was developed/ written in the first place and by whom?
Aside from that Im very glad we have access to all the AFIADL courses and PME. I saw one in personnel and admin that Ive got my eye on right now.
What does everyone think of this idea? I am thinking of setting up a regular course for studying the AFIADL 13 material for anyone interested. My thought is to maybe have one day a month to study one of the modules, so that every four months the entire course is covered.
It would not be restricted to those enrolled in the course, although they would have priority in seating. Others could also benefit from the material, either as new members or for a refresher.
I'm also going to put out feelers to see if there is any interest in the wing for this sort of thing.
I would support a class room style 0013, seeing as I'm one of those folks that just doesn't have the motivation to sit here and read the stuff on my own when there are a million other things I'd rather do, whereas with a class it could be done in a day or at least a few weeks.
There are excellent AFIADL 00013 Course outlines in the National Best Practices.
Maj Ogden did something similar with a prior unit of his and had planned to do the same in the Utah Wing before our relocation. I for one, prefer a classroom style review before any major test, but especially subjects that i'm not particularly well versed.
I would be interested in assisting with creating such review session.
Quote from: MajorSER on January 30, 2007, 05:43:59 AM
There are excellent AFIADL 00013 Course outlines in the National Best Practices.
Those outlines are great, and I am incorporating some of them into any class I create.
Quote from: Spogden on January 31, 2007, 07:10:59 PM
Maj Ogden did something similar with a prior unit of his and had planned to do the same in the Utah Wing before our relocation. I for one, prefer a classroom style review before any major test, but especially subjects that i'm not particularly well versed.
I would be interested in assisting with creating such review session.
Do you have any ideas? I have some thoughts on Power Point presentations, but I would hate to subject any students to "Death by Power Point."
I found that if you have a group of 8-10 pretty much every area is covered by someone who felt comfortable and knowledgable with it. As a "director" I pretty much facilitated the conversations and kept them from moving to hangar flying. Also as the one running the study session you need to be comfortable with all of the materials in case you have a smaller class than anticipated or an area that no one feels comfortable with.
I think assigning each attendee "homework" prior to class would be ideal. Like said SM1 has to read, review and do the questions for Chapter 1. Then SM2 does Ch2, etc. Everyone should be responsible for reading the entire matrial but really focus on their specific area. Each person would be responsible for creating an interactive way of relaying this information to the class. Then come together and give their presentation along with the answers.
After all presentations, I think a Trivia game would be fun. Kind of like creating a Jeopardy for AFIADL 13.
Chapter outlines with said answers would be very beneficial
Just a thought.
OOOOHHHHH can I be Alex Trebek ;D ;D ;D
oh wait im not Canadian :-\ ;) :D
Quote from: dogden on January 31, 2007, 08:41:54 PM
OOOOHHHHH can I be Alex Trebek ;D ;D ;D
oh wait im not Canadian :-\ ;) :D
Um no, eh!?
I'm currently enrolled in the 00013 course right now, and most of it has been a review for me, I'm a huge AIR POWER man myself, but it just mentioned everything I've already learned in CAP or my College classes. For the SLS, it's important to know, but the presenters need to come up with either their own slides or be able to rise above corprates.
Having taken two AFIADL tests, I can say that they defintiely need to be re-written. As long as you know the answers to the questions after each section, you'll be fine. As a teacher, you can concentrate on those questions. Unfortunately some of the questions are ambiguous, but that's why passing isn't 85%! ;D
But PLEASE make study sessions interactive, no Powerpoint! One who has gone through SLS/CLC/RSC, reading Powerpoint slides should be outlawed. Unfortunately we are stuck with whoever volunteers to present. Some are good, some not so good. Some topics can be totally bland (Finance, Legal, AE) and the same material at each level. It takes a good presenter to make a session interactive while still covering the material.
The SLS and CLC and I would guess any of the "out of the box" PD courses, the materials are horribly out of date. I always told my instructors to make their own materials or modify the existing materials to get their presentations ready. I didn't accept an instructor who I knew wasn't going to be prepaired.
I took the AFIADL 00013 about 4 years ago and those materials were useful but in need of an update as well. I will be attending the RSC this summer and I hope to see updated materials being used for that course. I heard that our national vice commander is working on updating all of these PD materials but I had also heard that they were going to be in the field last October.
Quote from: jkalemis on February 06, 2007, 04:40:45 PM
But PLEASE make study sessions interactive, no Powerpoint! One who has gone through SLS/CLC/RSC, reading Powerpoint slides should be outlawed. Unfortunately we are stuck with whoever volunteers to present. Some are good, some not so good. Some topics can be totally bland (Finance, Legal, AE) and the same material at each level. It takes a good presenter to make a session interactive while still covering the material.
Just as a note, PowerPoint was not designed to be read, it was designed to put up the pertinant facts as the foucus- hence the name "PowerPoint" If it was meant to be read aloud verbatum, it would be labeled along the following: PrettyBoringWordsToPutYouToSleep
JMHO
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 12, 2007, 09:52:51 PM
Just as a note, PowerPoint was not designed to be read, it was designed to put up the pertinant facts as the foucus- hence the name "PowerPoint" If it was meant to be read aloud verbatum, it would be labeled along the following: PrettyBoringWordsToPutYouToSleep
I can buy that.... :)
I agree that they need to be re-written and brought up to date, as most of our tests do. They seem to focus only on the cadet tests and leave us officers in the dark reading and remembering material from 15 years ago.
Honestly, I thought the 00013 was a joke, and to be honest (I'll most likely be flamed for this), I'd say that at least 70% of the material on my particular test I learned and retained from AFJROTC in high school almost 10 years ago.
Now granted JROTC didn't cover anything CAP related, but there was enough AF material on mine to where I spent maybe 30 minutes taking and proof reading the test where I passed. I studied the material and found it very interesting and very applicable, but most of the small things I already knew. Just brushed up on the CAP regs and things and I did very well.
*Going to SLS next week as a matter of fact.
Greetings, all.
Newbie to the forum, and just glad that I found it. I'm a 1LT who was eligible for Capt. some time ago, and allowed time to run out on my ECI13...sat out for a year...Got the course again, and I'm now in my 4 month extension.
Why?
Too many things to do, and not enough time. Also, even though a college graduate, I'm a terrrrribly slow reader. As I read along, I already know a lot of what I'm reading, and I'm wondering just HOW detailed into the minutia the test really is.
I guess I just need a kick in the 6, and to spend more time with the books and less on the internet, huh?
;D
Semper Vigilans!
Quote from: Lee Davis on February 17, 2007, 07:22:27 AM
Greetings, all.
Newbie to the forum, and just glad that I found it. I'm a 1LT who was eligible for Capt. some time ago, and allowed time to run out on my ECI13...sat out for a year...Got the course again, and I'm now in my 4 month extension.
Why?
Too many things to do, and not enough time. Also, even though a college graduate, I'm a terrrrribly slow reader. As I read along, I already know a lot of what I'm reading, and I'm wondering just HOW detailed into the minutia the test really is.
I guess I just need a kick in the 6, and to spend more time with the books and less on the internet, huh?
;D
Semper Vigilans!
It's not that bad; if you at least study the VRE questions and are somewhat familiar with CAP and USAF you should be OK. All you need is a score of 65 to pass the course. I took my course exam somewhat 'cold' and got a 71. But at least it's outta the way.
If your extension runs out, you can't re-enroll in 00013 for six months.
There are 2 study guides I've come across and will be using them in the next week or so to review the information I've already read. If anyone wants them send me a message with your email address and I'll send them to you. [Don't remember where I got them from.] They are not designed to be cheat sheets but tools. I've read and understand the material, but these tools will provide for a quick refresher and place the material in an outline format rather then text-book.
Quote from: msmjr2003 on January 23, 2007, 09:19:09 PM
Well, there are two lines of thought; the regular way and the road less traveled.
The regular way that the majority of seniors complete CAPSOC is memorize the end-of-chapter questions.
---I can spot these folks a mile away
The other way is to actually learn the material and attempt to integrate what you've leaned (usually with some help of copied notes) into what you are doing in CAP (and maybe life also.)
---These are as common as a blue moon
What about the don't study at all and just request the exam at the same time you request the material approach? A lot of people pass that way...
Quote from: jimmydeanno on April 13, 2007, 02:55:55 PM
Quote from: msmjr2003 on January 23, 2007, 09:19:09 PM
Well, there are two lines of thought; the regular way and the road less traveled.
The regular way that the majority of seniors complete CAPSOC is memorize the end-of-chapter questions.
---I can spot these folks a mile away
The other way is to actually learn the material and attempt to integrate what you've leaned (usually with some help of copied notes) into what you are doing in CAP (and maybe life also.)
---These are as common as a blue moon
What about the don't study at all and just request the exam at the same time you request the material approach? A lot of people pass that way...
The means behind that strategy is to force the person to study under with the notion that the test is coming. If one knows that sucker is coming, one might be less apt to trick one's self into thinking, "
meh....okay; I'll study for it NEXT weekend." Instead, one gets that nagging feeling of, "
oh crud, I already ordered the test....better hanker down and study for it."
(It's a little trick I picked up while on active duty from a SMSgt....and it paid DIVIDENDS on effective time management, verses my tendency to be lazy if given my druthers.....)
;)
I ordered it so quick because I've heard horror stories about those who wait to order their test and then timed out
Quote from: jimmydeannoWhat about the don't study at all and just request the exam at the same time you request the material approach? A lot of people pass that way...
Perhaps I should've said...
"What about the don't study at all approach...a lot of people pass that way."
Tags - MIKE
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on February 17, 2007, 12:01:31 PM
If your extension runs out, you can't re-enroll in 00013 for six months.
how about... If you're closing in on your extended dated ... cancel your course ... then you're not restricted for 6 months... and can enroll again sooner
Also... I hold a 0013 study group twice a month specifically for the can't study alone crowd... it's working very well.
Also... hmmm I think I REALLY LIKE the "order the test right away" approach ... then you can take the test... maybe pass... or check & study your weak areas... order the test again... take it.. maybe pass... or check & study your weak areas... etc... etc... etc... and have 12 months with an "optional" 4 month extension to pass?
Thoughts? Comments? Flames?
IIRC, you only have two chances to test. If you fail the first time, AFIADL automatically sends out a different version.
As PDO, and having several new SM's in my unit, I am planning to conduct an AFIADL 13 course. I see a few have already done so, so I would like to find out (and 'borrow') what materials you used. I've already dl'd the stuff off the National PDO Best Practices site. I am plannig to start the course in Aug.
My current plan is to hold over several regular meetings for a few months (1 hour per meeting), but I'm open to setting up a weekend course, if that is more appropriate.