I wore my CSU for what will likely be the last time yesterday for a staff meeting and holiday party.
Are you going to miss it?
Quote from: Littleguy on December 11, 2011, 11:44:06 PM
Are you going to miss it?
Considering the initial expense, and the fact that a significant portion of our membership no longer have a uniform
that fulfills our mission (unless that mission is Olympic judge or real estate agent)...
Yes.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 12, 2011, 12:00:06 AM
Quote from: Littleguy on December 11, 2011, 11:44:06 PM
Are you going to miss it?
Considering the initial expense, and the fact that a significant portion of our membership no longer have a uniform
that fulfills our mission (unless that mission is Olympic judge or real estate agent)...
Yes.
Just take off the CAP buttons and you can use it to work as door man in Chicagoland :angel: I guess that's what happens when anyone is an early adopter of ANY new CAP uniform :(
RM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 11, 2011, 11:27:26 PM
I wore my CSU for what will likely be the last time yesterday for a staff meeting and holiday party.
So you are in blues now? ???
Congrats sir! :D
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on December 12, 2011, 12:27:54 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 11, 2011, 11:27:26 PM
I wore my CSU for what will likely be the last time yesterday for a staff meeting and holiday party.
So you are in blues now? ???
Congrats sir! :D
Funny.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on December 12, 2011, 12:23:34 AM
I guess that's what happens when anyone is an early adopter of ANY new CAP uniform :(
Early adopter? The CSU was approved in 2006.
I will get to wear mine one more time, then off come the ribbons and badges which will be placed in a display case since that will be the only place they will be able to be seen. (I believe in the 2 badges are enough on the gray/white uniform.)
Uniforms come, uniforms go.
If you look in the back of my closet, you might well find cotton fatigues, khaki shade 1505s, a cool 1549 shirt, light blue jumpsuits, light blue shirts without epaulets, old style service dress with exterior pockets, lightweight poplin jackets, and the odd Guyabarra shirt.
Every single one purchased at personal expense for CAP.
The single constant in CAP uniforms is change over time. Every single one of our uniforms will become obsolete at some point and represent a loss to our members. It is always sad to see a beloved uniform pass.
I sure miss that 1549 shirt. :(
Quote from: Ned on December 12, 2011, 06:30:58 AM
I sure miss that 1549 shirt. :(
Amen. 1549 was the so-called "Combination 3", right?
I never had the chance to wear it, except for briefly with the blue epaulettes and nameplate.
I've still got a brushed-silver nameplate with "CIVIL AIR PATROL" on it that's never been out of its little plastic tube.
I suppose the upside, if there is one, is that the uniform was killed before I spent money on the service coat.
That uniform was handled badly from the getgo; from the way the Generalissimo introduced it, to the way it was killed after the Air Force had expressed changes they wanted to see made and CAP responded to them! >:( I'm not sure which was handled the worst; the way it was introduced or the way it was killed, but nobody asked me, or any of the membership that I know of. :-X
I'm somewhere near the borderline of wearing the blues right now. I've got a physical scheduled for after the first of the year. I'll know then whether or not I can wear a uniform that has some colour to it or if I'll have to look like a photo negative.
If we have anyone willing to donate one to the CAP National Collection, I am willing to take one.
PM for address.
I kind of like uniform obsolescence. It forces the replacement of otherwise unserviceable uniforms that people refuse to replace. Like the see through BDUs, the blues shirts that have become white, etc.
Our Country has been divided between the "Blue" and the "Gray" before. It met with somewhat mixed results in 1861, but perhaps we can avoid bloodshed this time.....I find the irony intriguing....or maybe I am just feeling Blue......
Major Lord
Quote from: jimmydeanno on December 12, 2011, 03:10:40 PM
I kind of like uniform obsolescence. It forces the replacement of otherwise unserviceable uniforms that people refuse to replace. Like the see through BDUs, the blues shirts that have become white, etc.
No problem when there is an alternative.
I had no problem parting with mine.....a natural disater destroyed it. It was a very sharp jacket I do say.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 12, 2011, 03:21:37 PM
No problem when there is an alternative.
The grey-only zealots would try and tell us there
is an alternative...the bloody awful IMO blazer combo...but they would be incorrect.
Quote from: Major Lord on December 12, 2011, 03:12:14 PM
Our Country has been divided between the "Blue" and the "Gray" before. It met with somewhat mixed results in 1861, but perhaps we can avoid bloodshed this time.....I find the irony intriguing....or maybe I am just feeling Blue......
Major Lord
Blue truly won, while Gray stayed in nay-saying denial convinced of impending doom for years afterward.
Yep, sounds familiar to me!
(This is the part where, at bivouac, the cadet officers would raise their hands to indicate a "joke" on the part of the ES class teacher)
Quote from: DakRadz on December 12, 2011, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: Major Lord on December 12, 2011, 03:12:14 PM
Our Country has been divided between the "Blue" and the "Gray" before. It met with somewhat mixed results in 1861, but perhaps we can avoid bloodshed this time.....I find the irony intriguing....or maybe I am just feeling Blue......
Major Lord
Blue truly won, while Gray stayed in nay-saying denial convinced of impending doom for years afterward.
Yep, sounds familiar to me!
(This is the part where, at bivouac, the cadet officers would raise their hands to indicate a "joke" on the part of the ES class teacher)
Its just a metaphor, who would really believe that an organization based in Alabama would advocate slavery? Oooooooh....never mind....... The larger irony in my mind is the very fact of CAP identifying itself as being "Gray", that is to say, being neither black or white, good or evil, good or bad, clear or obfuscated; Or possibly just dominated by the elderly. For a metaphor, I find blue to be a better symbol: True Blue. Air Force Blue. Wild Blue Yonder. Blue in fact, is a color, Gray is not.
Major Lord
Quote from: Major Lord on December 12, 2011, 05:33:38 PM
Blue in fact, is a color, Gray is not.
Major Lord
:clap: :clap: :clap: 8) 8) 8) :clap: :clap: :clap: :) :) :)
Which is what I've been getting at all along!!!
Quote from: CyBorg on December 12, 2011, 05:41:08 PM
Quote from: Major Lord on December 12, 2011, 05:33:38 PM
Blue in fact, is a color, Gray is not.
Major Lord
:clap: :clap: :clap: 8) 8) 8) :clap: :clap: :clap: :) :) :)
Which is what I've been getting at all along!!!
Are you approving the metaphor or the optical physics?
Major Lord
At least we aren't swapping back to the maroon epaulets again....... ???
Quote from: GoneAway on December 12, 2011, 10:35:30 PM
At least we aren't swapping back to the maroon epaulets again....... ???
Don't give them any ideas... >:D
They're too fixated on grey to even consider any other colour...even maroon.
I did not thik the maroon looked all that bad. I think marron and grey would look sharp with red name ta >:Dgs
Sweet, than we could dress up like the Soviet "Young Pioneers"........ Better dead than red!
Major Lord
Quote from: eaker.cadet on December 13, 2011, 09:34:49 PM
I did not thik the maroon looked all that bad. I think marron and grey would look sharp with red name ta >:Dgs
YECH!
Aesthetics aside, the key is "uniform", as in all the same.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 14, 2011, 12:23:51 AM
Aesthetics aside, the key is "uniform", as in all the same.
We could only wish "uniform" meant that...Whenever we have different sets of uniforms for those In standards versus the fat and fuzzies...We will not be uniform. The effort either needs to be made to move the Air Force off their Position, or get the Pro AF uniform CAP crown to concede and go to the G/W...or do what the king wanted and find a suitable alternative that makes everyone happy.
I'm not holding my breath.
Quote from: SARDOC on December 14, 2011, 01:58:42 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 14, 2011, 12:23:51 AM
Aesthetics aside, the key is "uniform", as in all the same.
We could only wish "uniform" meant that...Whenever we have different sets of uniforms for those In standards versus the fat and fuzzies...We will not be uniform. The effort either needs to be made to move the Air Force off their Position, or get the Pro AF uniform CAP crown to concede and go to the G/W...or do what the king wanted and find a suitable alternative that makes everyone happy.
I'm not holding my breath.
+1
Quote from: SARDOC on December 14, 2011, 01:58:42 AM
The effort either needs to be made to move the Air Force off their Position, or get the Pro AF uniform CAP crown to concede and go to the G/W...or do what the king wanted and find a suitable alternative that makes everyone happy.
I'm not holding my breath.
Nor am I.
First, I think that CAP is still so treading-on-eggshells over uniforms that the political will/intestinal fortitude isn't there to ask the Air Force for
anything uniform-wise.
Second, there are probably as many people in CAP who dislike the grey/white for its colourlessness as there are those who like it because it's cheap and easy to put together.
Third, after the CSU I doubt
anyone with any pull in CAP is even going to broach the subject of a distinctive uniform that a big chunk of the membership likes. After all, the CSU was well-liked, and we saw that our opinion on
that didn't matter. >:(
I actually
have a proposal drawn up but I am very hesitant to submit it. I don't think it would get any higher than Group level because it isn't grey.
Quote from: CyBorg on December 14, 2011, 11:06:07 PMThird, after the CSU I doubt anyone with any pull in CAP is even going to broach the subject of a distinctive uniform that a big chunk of the membership likes. After all, the CSU was well-liked, and we saw that our opinion on that didn't matter.
We're already basically "there" - allow for the wear of badges and ribbons on the blazer and call it a uniform.
Next problem.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 14, 2011, 11:41:43 PM
We're already basically "there" - allow for the wear of badges and ribbons on the blazer and call it a uniform.
Next problem.
When did
that go through? Bit of a "half-a-loaf" solution if true.
Next problem?
There is by far no consensus on the G/W to the degree there was on the CSU.
It does not look aviation-related, unless you count Air America.
It is colourless (why does it
have to be grey and white?)
There is no approved headgear (I'm not counting a silly baseball cap).
All of these may not affect mission effectiveness
per se but they certainly affect
esprit de corps.
Agreement or not, it's already here, and the adjustment would likely be a non-issue with the USAF. It may not be the "preferred" solution, but it would
solve the majority of problems in a way that satisfies no one, which generally means it is the best answer.
With a lack of headgear, it would point to the corporate nature of the uniform, yet still allow members to display their plumage (we already know that courtesies are not based on hats, so let's not go there).
In formations and photos, the blazer would be "different", but no longer so different that the activity commander looks like a tennis judge.
As to image vs. mission, we all know they are not separate, but part of the main picture. Someone on fire does not care what the person with water is wearing, but an unprofessional or schizophrenic appearance may preclude ever getting to hold the bucket in the first place.
I just wish time machines were possible ... 'cause I'd like to go back in time and pound the Maxwell salute troller. ;)
Quote from: a2capt on December 15, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
I just wish time machines were possible ... 'cause I'd like to go back in time and pound the Maxwell salute troller. ;)
Let's start a posse!
Quote from: a2capt on December 15, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
I just wish time machines were possible ... 'cause I'd like to go back in time and pound the Maxwell salute troller. ;)
They say you're not supposed to alter the course of history. Paradoxes and such...
I dont see what the big freakin deal is for, let the memebership have it own uniform that they like. Keep the volunteers happy...you would be amazed at the results it has on the over all mission. It seems that we are the only country in the world that has a hang up about its auxiliary having garments that may look to much like the active componet. CAP should be allowed to have a uniform ofits own if that what CAP wants. Since we are only the part time auxilary now, why cant we haveour own uniform that does not look like the USAF . The CSU was nice IMHO but maybe we pushed it with the USAF. Kill me f ou want to......at this point with all the up roar, low light condions(witch I raise the BS flag on) Salauting CAP officers, AD not knowing the diffrence , we need a uniform that repersentthe proud history and heritage of the CAP. I AM STILL PROUD TO WEAR THE USAF but I would gladdly give it p for a uniform that we all can identify with and wear proudly and display our achivements and bling on. I tink it would boost morale and give us better branding and we would be better recognized. Manyhthings need fixed in CAP and this is just one of them. I diffentl like the airline type uniform people proposed in diffrent threads.
Quote from: Flight Officer on December 15, 2011, 06:08:14 PM
Quote from: a2capt on December 15, 2011, 05:40:00 PM
I just wish time machines were possible ... 'cause I'd like to go back in time and pound the Maxwell salute troller. ;)
Let's start a posse!
You don't need a time machine to travel in time; It happens while you wait. As far as changing the future, every action you take changes one of many potential "futures". If you believe in the Copenhagen view of the classic
Shrodinger's Cat thought experiment, you can view a cat in a sealed box as both alive and dead simultaneously, which is clearly a mystical interpretation of reality, and not supported in objective reality. The cat in the box is either alive or dead, not both.
Time travel is not just possible, its mandatory! Unfortunately, its a one-way trip. If it were otherwise, I would go back and convince Coke to abandon "New Coke", which is clearly one of the factors leading to impending world cataclysm.
Major Lord
Did you know the Roman Legions had an auxiliary (
Auxila)?
As long as we are talking about a time machine . . . .
Quote from: FlaviusAlthough we are only Auxilia, we must continue to present a professional image to the full Legionnaires.
Our centurions are forced to wear helmet crests of horsehair or worse. We should be able to wear feathers like the regular centurions. I am embarrassed every time I go the marketplace.
And our standard bearers should not wear the pelts of lesser animals like coyotes or deer. They should wear wolf pelts or perhaps bear to show that we contribute to the total effort as much as any member of the VI Legion!
Quote from: TitusNo, we should be proud of being Auxilia and should not try to look like full Legionnaires. They are the ones in battle, not us. Our contributions are vital, but we are not Roman citizens; we hail from the provinces. We are content to work quietly at our jobs. After all, Auxilia are not trained nearly as much as a Legionnaire, so we should dress distinctively. We don't want to draw unnecessary fire from barbarians, do we?
Quote from: MarcusBut the last Emperor made too many uniform changes -- our helmets, shields, and armor are different from when I first joined the Auxilia. And I have to pay for these myself!
Quote from: SeviusBut Cladius Didius looks foolish in his tunic -- he is the size of an elephant, but refuses to acknowledge that life was good to him in Gaul. We should have distinctive uniforms for our Auxilia "Maximus" members.
Quote from: GaiusOur youngest recruits deserve some distinctive items to help motivate them for the rigorous training. Perhaps we could award them phalerae to wear on their breastplates. That should do the trick.
Sigh - - - some things have not changed in millenia.
>^^now THAT's just danged funny!
"Before we battle those Spartans, are we all Safetius Currentius?"
>:D
Quote from: eaker.cadet on December 15, 2011, 07:15:26 PM
I dont see what the big freakin deal is for, let the memebership have it own uniform that they like.
We had one.
Quote from: eaker.cadet on December 15, 2011, 07:15:26 PM
Keep the volunteers happy...you would be amazed at the results it has on the over all mission.
(adopting Foghorn Leghorn voice)
Son, I say, Son, it doesn't matter if yer
happy, yer supposed to do what yer
told and say that your favourite colour is grey, I say, GREY! If it was good enough for General Robert E. Lee, then it's good, I say it's good enough for the CAP! And yer still gittin' yer britches switched for those CAP members who wanted to pretend like they was in the real U.S. of A., I say, USAF all them years ago!
Quote from: eaker.cadet on December 15, 2011, 07:15:26 PM
It seems that we are the only country in the world that has a hang up about its auxiliary having garments that may look to much like the active componet.
We are, and it's because a substantial number of people way above our paygrades are still in terror of the days of the berry boards.
Royal New Zealand Air Training Corps...the only difference is the shoulder flashes.
(http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1292799738/241/4477241.jpg)
Royal Canadian Air Cadets adult officer:
(http://www.cadets.net/pac/images/photo_feature/2005/Cmdr%20Mountford%2089%20plaque.JPG)
The Commander in the middle is an RCN officer. Flanking him are two RCAC officers. Only difference is the hat badge.
Australian Air Force Cadets:
(http://www.aafc.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/afb_front_staff.jpg)
Only difference is it says "CADET FORCES" on the epaulettes rather than "AUSTRALIA."
Royal Air Force Air Training Corps officer:
(http://www.freewebs.com/1365sqn/JG%2007.jpg)
Only difference is the "VRT" (Volunteer Reserve Training) collar brass.
Quote from: eaker.cadet on December 15, 2011, 07:15:26 PM
CAP should be allowed to have a uniform ofits own if that what CAP wants.
(Adopting Emperor Palpatine voice)
You have all the uniform you need, my young apprentice. Do not pursue this matter any further...
Quote from: Ned on December 15, 2011, 09:23:59 PM
Did you know the Roman Legions had an auxiliary (Auxila)?
As long as we are talking about a time machine . . . .
Quote from: FlaviusAlthough we are only Auxilia, we must continue to present a professional image to the full Legionnaires.
Our centurions are forced to wear helmet crests of horsehair or worse. We should be able to wear feathers like the regular centurions. I am embarrassed every time I go the marketplace.
And our standard bearers should not wear the pelts of lesser animals like coyotes or deer. They should wear wolf pelts or perhaps bear to show that we contribute to the total effort as much as any member of the VI Legion!
Quote from: TitusNo, we should be proud of being Auxilia and should not try to look like full Legionnaires. They are the ones in battle, not us. Our contributions are vital, but we are not Roman citizens; we hail from the provinces. We are content to work quietly at our jobs. After all, Auxilia are not trained nearly as much as a Legionnaire, so we should dress distinctively. We don't want to draw unnecessary fire from barbarians, do we?
Quote from: MarcusBut the last Emperor made too many uniform changes -- our helmets, shields, and armor are different from when I first joined the Auxilia. And I have to pay for these myself!
Quote from: SeviusBut Cladius Didius looks foolish in his tunic -- he is the size of an elephant, but refuses to acknowledge that life was good to him in Gaul. We should have distinctive uniforms for our Auxilia "Maximus" members.
Quote from: GaiusOur youngest recruits deserve some distinctive items to help motivate them for the rigorous training. Perhaps we could award them phalerae to wear on their breastplates. That should do the trick.
Sigh - - - some things have not changed in millenia.
That is great (hysterical) history. The question I would like answered is....did they also sponsor a racing chariot?????
Ned's right. That was back when phalerae were plastic-encased and had pictures, Ikons, that illustrated our proud history. Those sure were the days... ;)
Unfortunately, I don't think anything that isn't grey will even be considered. >:(
^ You've been spouting that line for months. Who is your source?
Quote from: EMT-83 on December 17, 2011, 03:42:08 PM
^ You've been spouting that line for months. Who is your source?
Erh...General Courter's PowerPoint, for one...
The opinions of many other members here on CT...some resigned to it, others zealously for it...
I have seen, read or heard nothing official in counterpoint...
Many very inventive and creative CT'ers have designed uniforms using extant civilian clothing in other colours...the prevailing opinion is that "the Air Force will never allow it."
Only #1 and #3 carry any weight beyond just being my opinion, but why else would the powers-that-be kill off a very popular uniform and keep one that is much less popular?
Gen. Courter made it clear in her PowerPoint that GRAY is her way.... Gen. Carr made it clear in his election speech that he was Courter's man through and through and will not steer the ship different than her at all.
So... when you add 2 +2 you get.....gray uniforms for the next 4 years minimum....
How about we just enforce our existing regulations across the board, with actual ramifications for violations?
I think that would get us where we want to be pretty quick, because there are a lot of people, all over the echelon map, who simply
ignore the grooming & weight standards and continue to wear USAF-Style uniforms regardless of whether they should or not.
This results in a lot of people who would be influencers in a more military-style corporate jacket "unconcerned", and also makes it more difficult
for us to request change with the USAF because our existing credibility in regards to following simple directions is lower than it should be.
The result is people who follow the rules being negatively impacted (in a variety of ways), by those who can't, or won't, do what they should.
Quote from: NCRblues on December 17, 2011, 04:59:33 PM
Gen. Courter made it clear in her PowerPoint that GRAY is her way.... Gen. Carr made it clear in his election speech that he was Courter’s man through and through and will not steer the ship different than her at all.
So... when you add 2 +2 you get.....gray uniforms for the next 4 years minimum....
I understand: rumor and innuendo. But if you read it or repeat it often enough it must be true.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 17, 2011, 05:04:16 PM
How about we just enforce our existing regulations across the board, with actual ramifications for violations?
I think that would get us where we want to be pretty quick, because there are a lot of people, all over the echelon map, who simply
ignore the grooming & weight standards and continue to wear USAF-Style uniforms regardless of whether they should or not.
This results in a lot of people who would be influencers in a more military-style corporate jacket "unconcerned", and also makes it more difficult
for us to request change with the USAF because our existing credibility in regards to following simple directions is lower than it should be.
The result is people who follow the rules being negatively impacted (in a variety of ways), by those who can't, or won't, do what they should.
I believe this is the most important part of the uniform mess...
If we did not have blatant violations out the ying yang, CAP as an origination could (and should) feel much better about going to the AF to look for a better alternative.
But, lets be honest, if you were in the AF's shoes, your first argument against it would be something along the lines of.... "you have members who will not follow basic uniform procedures now, why should we go out of our way to help you?"
Quote from: EMT-83 on December 17, 2011, 05:07:12 PM
Quote from: NCRblues on December 17, 2011, 04:59:33 PM
Gen. Courter made it clear in her PowerPoint that GRAY is her way.... Gen. Carr made it clear in his election speech that he was Courter's man through and through and will not steer the ship different than her at all.
So... when you add 2 +2 you get.....gray uniforms for the next 4 years minimum....
I understand: rumor and innuendo. But if you read it or repeat it often enough it must be true.
It was not rumor or innuendo....Gen Courters PowerPoint said GRAY.... it did not say (insert random color) and if that does not work we will use gray....it said gray. So if we do not take the Nat/CC's word for it, I guess everything is rumors then.
There must be more than one PowerPoint. The only reference I can find to the future use of gray is a need to standardize gray and blue colors used on existing uniforms.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 17, 2011, 05:04:16 PM
How about we just enforce our existing regulations across the board, with actual ramifications for violations?
I think that would get us where we want to be pretty quick, because there are a lot of people, all over the echelon map, who simply
ignore the grooming & weight standards and continue to wear USAF-Style uniforms regardless of whether they should or not.
Please see the current USAF uniform regulation at http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf)
I do not see anything in that regulation that states overweight Active/Reserve/Guard Air Force personnel (or retired personnel) CAN NOT wear an Air Force uniform. I think the over weight AF uniform wear issue in CAP is a lost cause. Most squadrons don't even have a scale. Volunteers spend a lot of money to buy these AF type uniforms. IF a uniform
fits properly and the individuals wearing it
meets the appropriate physical appearance standards (e.g. grooming) , I don't think anyone has an interest to go on a "over weight witch hunt" :-\
RM
Quote from: EMT-83 on December 17, 2011, 06:13:38 PM
There must be more than one PowerPoint. The only reference I can find to the future use of gray is a need to standardize gray and blue colors used on existing uniforms.
That
is the PowerPoint.
General Courter says we standardise grey and blue colours, meaning trousers and (yech) blazer. She gave no other option. If it isn't spelt out as "you can" in regs, it usually means "you can't."
I haven't seen some of the most egregious uniform violations that others have, though I certainly believe they exist.
I actually have a pair of grey British law-enforcement issue trousers hanging in my closet, in case my yearly physical in January puts me outside the weight limit to wear the AF blues. I won't like it, but I won't be one of those who shoots the middle finger to the regs, either.
You're basing your argument and angst on that one slide?
Holy let's-take-things-out-of-context Batman.
I'll stick with my rumor and innuendo statement.
Quote from: EMT-83 on December 17, 2011, 06:58:32 PM
You're basing your argument and angst on that one slide?
Holy let's-take-things-out-of-context Batman.
I'll stick with my rumor and innuendo statement.
If you can find sourced information to the contrary, please do.
That's exactly my point; there is no sourced information available.
The rumors are being repeated to the extent that they are considered fact.
^^If you want to consider a statement by the former National Commander of CAP rumour, innuendo, whatever, you are quite free to do so.
There is also, I believe, a four-year moratorium on ANY uniform changes.
Does she say that a replacement for the CSU was even being considered? If it's there, I missed it.
Again, rumor and innuendo.
Quote from: CyBorg on December 17, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
Unfortunately, I don't think anything that isn't grey will even be considered. >:(
[humor/observation]
The wearing of the ball cap with the aviator combo, I think I figured out where it came from, http://www.air-america.net/images/CASI/casi5.jpg (http://www.air-america.net/images/CASI/casi5.jpg)
As far as all grey, switch the blazer to grey, http://www.air-america.net/images/AAM/uniforms/classa-2.jpg (http://www.air-america.net/images/AAM/uniforms/classa-2.jpg)
SO...anything the Nat/CC says is rumors and innuendo? .... best of luck with that.... ::)
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on December 17, 2011, 06:15:21 PM
Please see the current USAF uniform regulation at http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf)
I do not see anything in that regulation that states overweight Active/Reserve/Guard Air Force personnel (or retired personnel) CAN NOT wear an Air Force uniform. I think the over weight AF uniform wear issue in CAP is a lost cause. Most squadrons don't even have a scale. Volunteers spend a lot of money to buy these AF type uniforms. IF a uniform fits properly and the individuals wearing it meets the appropriate physical appearance standards (e.g. grooming) , I don't think anyone has an interest to go on a "over weight witch hunt" :-\
RM
That's because there are other regulations that govern USAF Height and Weight. Failure to comply with them is handled in other ways. If you do not meet Height/Weight your 'being out of the limits to wear the uniform' is the least of your issues. However, you are still in the USAF, and still must be in uniform.
The USAF has been kicking people out left and right that fail to meet the PT standards. Usually those outside height/weight requirements are going to have an issue with the PT test. Before those of you who go 'But I'm super muscle man! I weigh too much because of that' they do a BMI measurement to determine you are fit to serve. And if you have some medical issue that is causing you to balloon, and it hasn't been noted before, but can be diagnosed the USAF either treats it, or medically discharges your ass.
I know it's hard for some people to believe, but the AFI for uniforms is probably one of the least discussed regulations in the USAF. We have thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations. I highly doubt anyone really knows what's in all of them. Hell, one of the regulations we follow references the requirements to a medical AFI. If I have a question about that medical AFI...I don't read that AFI, I ask a doctor.
As to the Commonwealth countries use of their respective service uniforms...
Their volunteer officers are actually commissioned officers who go through military training. Yeah...imagine that. They are also paid part-time. You can bet they have a lot more ammo to say 'you will meet X Y and Z' rules about uniforms/height/weight when they can stop the pay or remove you. Additionally, their uniforms are issued to them at zero cost to the member. They also have a group of 'civilian instructors' who do not wear uniforms but hold zero command authority in their organization. They also have no operational mission, and are a heck of a lot more like JROTC than they are like CAP.
They are far, far more over toward the military side of the volunteer professional spectrum, and as a result they are also under a lot more scrutiny and control of their parent organization. It has its benefits, and its draw backs. Folks want all the carrots, money, and benefits the USAF could provide, but they sure as hell don't seem to want the control that would actually bring with it as a caveat. I am willing to bet, in order for CAP to really 'be like the RCAC' or whatever, we would have USAF officers in charge at the high end.
Quote from: NCRblues on December 17, 2011, 08:11:07 PM
SO...anything the Nat/CC says is rumors and innuendo? .... best of luck with that.... ::)
Let's stick to the facts.
In her presentation, General Courter made numerous references to the existing G/W and blazer uniforms. The last slide mentioned a future need to standardize the colors used for those uniforms, a viewpoint shared by many on this board.
The innuendo was that General Courter said that all future uniforms need to be gray and that rumor has been spread ever since.
Nowhere did she mention the development of new uniforms, let alone express a desire of what color they should be.
Unfortunately, if a lie is repeated often enough, it becomes the new truth.
Quote from: LGM30GMCC on December 17, 2011, 09:13:40 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on December 17, 2011, 06:15:21 PM
Please see the current USAF uniform regulation at http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf (http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/afi36-2903.pdf)
I do not see anything in that regulation that states overweight Active/Reserve/Guard Air Force personnel (or retired personnel) CAN NOT wear an Air Force uniform. I think the over weight AF uniform wear issue in CAP is a lost cause. Most squadrons don't even have a scale. Volunteers spend a lot of money to buy these AF type uniforms. IF a uniform fits properly and the individuals wearing it meets the appropriate physical appearance standards (e.g. grooming) , I don't think anyone has an interest to go on a "over weight witch hunt" :-\
RM
I am willing to bet, in order for CAP to really 'be like the RCAC' or whatever, we would have USAF officers in charge at the high end.
Which was viable model for us because CAP did have that structure in the past (Our history shows due to budget and other considerations our structure was changed).
Respectfully,
Don't you honestly think that if a new uniform to replace the grey/white was in the works, General Courter would have said something about that? Or Ned, who knows more about the inner workings of CAP than most of us ever will? Or that there would have been a moratorium placed on any uniform changes?
Re the Commonwealth countries: It is true that the Royal Canadian Air Cadets and the UK Air Training Corps are led by adults who are a special kind of reservist (Cadet Instructor Cadre and RAF Volunteer Reserve - Training, respectively).
I don't believe that is the case with the Australian Air Force Cadets (except for serving RAAF members who become adult instructors) or the New Zealand Air Training Corps.
The UK ATC is headed by a serving RAF officer, Air Commodore (O-7 equivalent) Barbara Cooper.
All do have to go through an initial training period - 8 days in the AAFC, 2 1/2 days of distance learning, 16 days of in-house learning for the RCAirC.
Believe me, I've seen photos of adult leaders in all those branches with H/W standards that would completely DQ them from wearing the CAP AF uniform.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on December 17, 2011, 06:15:21 PM
I think the over weight AF uniform wear issue in CAP is a lost cause. Most squadrons don't even have a scale. Volunteers spend a lot of money to buy these AF type uniforms. IF a uniform fits properly and the individuals wearing it meets the appropriate physical appearance standards (e.g. grooming) , I don't think anyone has an interest to go on a "over weight witch hunt" :-\
RM
That's the problem right there. People don't want to bring up what can be a touchy issue of weight or enforce the rules we have.
As for the money spent of AF style, that can be fixed by presenting your expectations when they join.
"Your application says you're 5'10", do you weigh more than 213lbs?"
If they do, you tell then right then and there that they will need to wear corporate and that wear of the AF-style will not be tolerated, unless of course, they drop the required weight. That way they do not waste money on uniforms they cannot wear.
If they try to fight you on it, remind them that as a Senior Member, they need to be
setting the example for cadets, and as we all know, the majority of cadets know 39-1 better than most Seniors.
^^Which is why I said that even though I think the G/W blows chunks, I have a pair of grey uniform pants in my closet in case my physical in January shows me over the weight limit...it'll be close, I think. I have side effects of medication that make me gain weight, unfortunately.
I don't want to set that bad example for others (seniors as well as cadets) by wearing the uniform improperly.
who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.
Quote from: Skydude61 on December 18, 2011, 11:57:20 PM
who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.
Only cadets are authorized that jacket.
Quote from: Skydude61 on December 18, 2011, 11:57:20 PM
who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.
I wear the new style. It's all I could find at my local Army-Navy store that fit me. Tbh I prefer the look of the old style service coat, and I wish I had found one. It looks much more military IMO. Although I think that the fabric could use an update, to make it look more modern. Something like a tighter weave, and the darker color of the new-style service coat.
Basically, the same cut as the old-style but with the fabric of the new style. Just my humble opinion.
Opinions?
Quote from: davidsinn on December 19, 2011, 12:10:22 AM
Quote from: Skydude61 on December 18, 2011, 11:57:20 PM
who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.
Only cadets are authorized that jacket.
99% of our cadets still wear the 4 button coat.
Still very serviceable and the
kids cadets are able to make them look sharp
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on December 19, 2011, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: davidsinn on December 19, 2011, 12:10:22 AM
Quote from: Skydude61 on December 18, 2011, 11:57:20 PM
who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.
Only cadets are authorized that jacket.
99% of our cadets still wear the 4 button coat.
Still very serviceable and the kids cadets are able to make them look sharp
99%? Um...no... maybe 65% but we are getting more and more of the "new kind" as that is all the AF is issuing for years now, and more and more are showing up in surplus stores and other odd places for cadets to get.
Sigh...the "Tony Nelson" jacket. I still have one hanging in my closet with blue nameplate attached.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRl8xvvTkGCEQk3DqM75pbZL_KJ50tE5r-IPcK36n6Ic3WZiVzuG8i3oo9x)
(http://www.militaryuniformsupply.com/files/major-nelson-fb-costume.JPG)
I never have been able to figure out what ribbons he had, except that it looks like he had an AF OSU ribbon.
I remember rumours when the Tony McPeak uniform came out that CAP was going to keep that uniform and get metal grade back...I would have been all in favour of that, the uniform was better-looking IMO and it would have given the "distinctiveness" that so many harp about.
We have a couple of cadets who still wear it and make it look good.
Quote from: CyBorg on December 19, 2011, 02:18:29 PMI remember rumours when the Tony McPeak uniform came out that CAP was going to keep that uniform and get metal grade back...
Where would it have been worn? The whole point of McPeak was that it didn't have metal grade on it, but instead used Navy-type sleeve stripes.
We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........
Major Lord
Quote from: Eclipse on December 19, 2011, 02:46:02 PM
Where would it have been worn? The whole point of McPeak was that it didn't have metal grade on it, but instead used Navy-type sleeve stripes.
Oops.
I wasn't clear enough.
The rumour I heard is that CAP was going to keep the
Tony Nelson uniform and revert to metal grade. Whether that also meant metal collar brass, I don't know.
I also heard another one around the same time that we were going to adopt the Tony McPeak uniform with either light blue (kind of RAF-style, I suppose)...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/RAF-Sqn_Ldr-OF-3.png)
or (yech) grey sleeve stripes.
I only ever personally saw one person wearing the McPeak uniform - a Ch. Captain.
I would have been quite happy to keep the Tony Nelson uniform, except that supplies would eventually run out.
Quote from: NCRblues on December 19, 2011, 08:17:41 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on December 19, 2011, 08:05:07 AM
Quote from: davidsinn on December 19, 2011, 12:10:22 AM
Quote from: Skydude61 on December 18, 2011, 11:57:20 PM
who else still wears an "old-style" service coat? the four-button thing that has pockets.
Only cadets are authorized that jacket.
99% of our cadets still wear the 4 button coat.
Still very serviceable and the kids cadets are able to make them look sharp
99%? Um...no... maybe 65% but we are getting more and more of the "new kind" as that is all the AF is issuing for years now, and more and more are showing up in surplus stores and other odd places for cadets to get.
Sorry for the nitpicking, but: in my experience it's about 50/50.
Quote from: Major Lord on December 19, 2011, 03:09:37 PM
We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........
Major Lord
She even managed to get Majors Nelson and Healey to discredit a fellow officer, the unfortunate Dr. Bellows. Oh, the depths of her plot are astounding. :o
Quote from: davedove on December 19, 2011, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: Major Lord on December 19, 2011, 03:09:37 PM
We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........
Major Lord
She even managed to get Majors Nelson and Healey to discredit a fellow officer, the unfortunate Dr. Bellows. Oh, the depths of her plot are astounding. :o
I am sure as soon as they finished gaslighting Doctor Bellows, they would have been able to pin all their active espionage on him, and he would commit "suicide", since Psychiatrist's have a tendency to do this.....brilliant!
Major Lord
Quote from: EMT-83 on December 17, 2011, 09:23:09 PM
Nowhere did she mention the development of new uniforms, let alone express a desire of what color they should be.
I don't know where you get the idea that new uniforms are in the pipeline.
The CSU was killed, ostensibly to reduce the number of uniforms we have, though it would have been just as easy to kill off the G/W/blazer. So I didn't buy that excuse, though they didn't ask me.
General Courter's ICL/PowerPoint reinforced the status of the G/W/blazer and said absolutely nothing about any new uniform design.
Quote from: Major Lord on December 19, 2011, 03:09:37 PM
We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........
Major Lord
Yes, a classic case study taught in my 97B MOS school! ;)
Fort Holabird?
Major Lord
Quote from: Major Lord on December 20, 2011, 02:47:55 AM
Fort Holabird?
Major Lord
Closed prior to my enlistment. After that MI was in AZ...
My unit was the 163rd MI (C), III Corps, West Ft Hood, TX. Did I pass?
This is a question again for all of those who wear the jackets....
is there an effective way of dealing with
1) a collar that won't stay sharp and creased even after a clean and press
2) those nasty litttle threads that the embroidered USAF insignia left on the sleeve that give us all these little fuzzy puffs....
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on December 20, 2011, 03:18:52 AM
Quote from: Major Lord on December 20, 2011, 02:47:55 AM
Fort Holabird?
Major Lord
Closed prior to my enlistment. After that MI was in AZ...
My unit was the 163rd MI (C), III Corps, West Ft Hood, TX. Did I pass?
No need to be defensive, it was not a test-thats the other guy. Its just to cold in that area of the world for me. If I was testing you, I would asked the color of the boat house at Hereford. :)
Major Lord
RED and it was not really a boat house!
Quote from: Major Lord on December 20, 2011, 05:29:16 PM
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on December 20, 2011, 03:18:52 AM
Quote from: Major Lord on December 20, 2011, 02:47:55 AM
Fort Holabird?
Major Lord
Closed prior to my enlistment. After that MI was in AZ...
My unit was the 163rd MI (C), III Corps, West Ft Hood, TX. Did I pass?
No need to be defensive, it was not a test-thats the other guy. Its just to cold in that area of the world for me. If I was testing you, I would asked the color of the boat house at Hereford. :)
Major Lord
No worries, and I don't remember what color it was Mr. DeNiro! 8)
Quote from: Major Lord on December 19, 2011, 06:34:28 PM
Quote from: davedove on December 19, 2011, 06:30:25 PM
Quote from: Major Lord on December 19, 2011, 03:09:37 PM
We have a lot to learn from Major Tony Nelson. Remember how he was compromised into revealing every facet of his his Air Force career and secret info to a hot blond chick with admitted ties to Baghdad? At the time of the series, Iraq was nearly a satellite state of the Soviet Union, and armed and equipped by Russia. Its clear that Major Nelson fell into the classic "Honey Trap" used by the Soviets by way of their Iraqi agency Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma' Directorate 4 ( How many hot blond English speaking Iraqi's are there?) Obviously, Jeannie used mind altering drugs and the promise of sex as way of controlling Major Nelson, and like any good agent handler, she played him like a fish. He even roped his over-sexed best friend Roger Healey into his hapless conspiracy, with unfulfilled bribes of sex, money, and power. A classic intelligence operation. He may have looked good in the old Service Coat, but someone should have double-tapped Major Nelson before he could further compromise our Country's security! It was a dark story of betrayal and ruin. Of course, Barbara Eden was Smokin' hot........
Major Lord
She even managed to get Majors Nelson and Healey to discredit a fellow officer, the unfortunate Dr. Bellows. Oh, the depths of her plot are astounding. :o
I am sure as soon as they finished gaslighting Doctor Bellows, they would have been able to pin all their active espionage on him, and he would commit "suicide", since Psychiatrist's have a tendency to do this.....brilliant!
Major Lord
It goes even deeper. Jeannie also used a fellow operative, her "sister", to act as an obvious foe in order to further gain the trust of her targets. ???
Cripes-a-mighty, look what I did in mentioning Tony Nelson... :o
Quote from: CyBorg on December 21, 2011, 03:33:19 PM
Cripes-a-mighty, look what I did in mentioning Tony Nelson... :o
Indeed! Its funny how we would look upon a comedy with a middle east connection now vs. then. Back in the 70s we all thought they wore the traditional garb and still rode camels (all the time). Man and I getting old! :P
Welp ... I wore my CSU for the last time to our unit's annual banquet this week.
Once I get it dry-cleaned, I'm shipping the jacket to Jim Shaw for his CAP Museum.
Even though I don't need one any more, I'm still most distressed that the NEC killed what was a perfectly good, USAF-approved uniform out of sheer terror of anything potentially offending our Big Brother Blue.
Oh, well. Time, at last, to move on.
So long, CSU. You were a good idea whose time had, apparently, not yet come.
Jack
Maroon epaulets ::)
Quote from: ColonelJack on December 29, 2011, 12:34:52 PM
Even though I don't need one any more, I'm still most distressed that the NEC killed what was a perfectly good, USAF-approved uniform out of sheer terror of anything potentially offending our Big Brother Blue.
Quite possibly the most inane, unreasoned decision I have seen CAP make in my nearly 18 years of service.
It is incomprehensible to me, and of course no-one will tell the plebian membership why, such a perfectly good uniform
sanctioned by the Air Force was deep-sixed.
Quote from: ColonelJack on December 29, 2011, 12:34:52 PM
So long, CSU. You were a good idea whose time had, apparently, not yet come.
Jack
Or perhaps the wrong
person (the Generalissimo) came up with the idea and NHQ is trying to purge all vestiges of him. >:(
I agree that CAP needs a corporate military-style UNIFORM, but Big blue will not go along with that. I am tired of seeing polo shirts being worn as a military uniform. All senior members should be in some type of corporate military-style uniform, ALL, This way CAP is part of the RM but still seperate and different. The CSU proposed by HSRN is a start but needs some work done. I would love to be part of the uniform committee on this issue.
Dear uniform committee,
I rather like the polo. Please don't take it away.
Signed,
Someone who appreciates a little bit of simplicity in a very complex organization
Quote from: CAP_truth on December 29, 2011, 07:45:32 PM
I agree that CAP needs a corporate military-style UNIFORM, but Big blue will not go along with that. I am tired of seeing polo shirts being worn as a military uniform. All senior members should be in some type of corporate military-style uniform, ALL, This way CAP is part of the RM but still seperate and different. The CSU proposed by HSRN is a start but needs some work done. I would love to be part of the uniform committee on this issue.
First, what constitutes "military-style" is just as vague as the bloody stupid "low light/at-a-distance" thing we have to live with now. It's just that NHQ seems to be violently allergic to anything except grey, and thinks they have to stay away from
any shade of blue. The USAF has control on their shades of blue uniforms, but they do not have a trademark on
everything blue!
Using the German Bundeswehr as an example:
(http://www.luftwaffe.de/resource/resource/MzEzNTM4MmUzMzMyMmUzMTM1MzMyZTM2MzEzMDMwMzAzMDMwMzAzMDY3NmY2NTM3Njg2NjMwNmYyMDIwMjAyMDIw/image_popup.jpg)
The Bundesheer officer on the far left would probably be more acceptable to a CAP uniform design, simply because it is grey, while the three Bundesluftwaffe officers' uniforms, even though of near-identical cut, and a cut and colour nothing like the USAF, would be out of any consideration, simply because they are blue (grey-blue, really).
I don't have a problem with the polo shirt per se, even though I've never owned one and probably never will. I do have a problem with members using it as their
only uniform.
The CSU with General Courter's modifications should have
logically been perfectly acceptable...but logic doesn't come into it.
Less than 12 hours left of the CSU (for those in HIWG, about 1/2 that for the rest of us).
Raise a glass and then light the fires!
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/336/imageslg.jpg)
Quote from: Eclipse on December 31, 2011, 10:56:04 PM
Less than 12 hours left of the CSU (for those in HIWG, about 1/2 that for the rest of us).
Raise a glass and then light the fires!
(http://www.thedawgpound.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/it_is_what_it_is_neon_sign.gif)
You got caught hotlinking.
Weird - it looked ok on mine - must have been the cache.
I fixed it, and this one is more appropriate anyway, and gray for Cyborg!
Quote from: Eclipse on December 31, 2011, 11:29:17 PM
Weird - it looked ok on mine - must have been the cache.
I fixed it, and this one is more appropriate anyway, and gray for Cyborg!
Ha, ha, ha, you funny, sonny! 8) :P I needed the giggle.
Y'know, I have thought that in a worst-scenario case, if we would design a blue uniform using off-the-shelf civilian components, with absolutely zero USAF items, present it to them and say "this is what those of us who cannot wear the AF uniform are going to wear," and then institute it (so that they know, unlike the way the CSU was instituted), what is the absolute worst that can happen? After all, as has been pointed out, SDF Air Wings wear their uniform with even less alteration and they don't say anything about it (and they
could, so the argument that "it's because we're their Auxiliary" doesn't really wash), so why should they care about a civilian uniform that just happens to be blue, especially when it uses NOTHING of theirs?
What would be the absolute worst that could happen?
Quote from: Eclipse on December 31, 2011, 10:56:04 PM
Less than 12 hours left of the CSU (for those in HIWG, about 1/2 that for the rest of us).
I've never seen it worn here. Guess I won't now. Meh.
Quote from: AirDX on January 01, 2012, 04:15:34 AM
I've never seen it worn here. Guess I won't now. Meh.
I saw it worn by a Wing Commander and his Chief Of Staff. Both looked very good.
I never got to wear the entire uniform...just the shirtsleeve order.