Including Col. Tilton and Col. Gagliardi (x2...one removing from command, and a separate 2b!)
https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Report_of_Recent_Membership_Action_Review_Board_Cases_Sep_11.pdf (https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Report_of_Recent_Membership_Action_Review_Board_Cases_Sep_11.pdf)
Got to say that perhaps adverse membership action is warranted against a Region Commander who twice tried to fire and/or kick out a Wing Commander and had the MARB overturn his decisions both times based on a failure to follow the regulations. Shows a particular lack of attention to detail.
It is interesting to note how many actions were reversed, not because the member didn't do something, but because proper procedures weren't followed. [Edit] RiverAux beat me to that comment.
It is also interesting how the BoG acted in the Tilton case.
It's funny to see that there were a handful of repeat offenders
The Col. Gagliardi thing confuses me...
So the region commander removed him from command and suspended him. The colonel goes to the MARB and they put him back in command. Then 4 months later, the region commander AGAIN removes him and he AGAIN goes to the MARB and they put him back...
The first time ok..."whops... forgot to read those regulations bob" got it...
But the 2nd time? Really?
^ My thoughts exactly. I'm sure there is no love lost in that relationship.
Quote from: SARDOC on October 18, 2011, 03:38:10 AM
^ My thoughts exactly. I'm sure there is no love lost in that relationship.
Would have loved to have been on the Region Staff Call after he was reinstated a second time. >:D
Reg/CC: And I'd like to welcome back Col. Gagliardi as the commander of RI Wing after his successful appeal to the MARB...again.
Quote from: JeffDG on October 18, 2011, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: SARDOC on October 18, 2011, 03:38:10 AM
^ My thoughts exactly. I'm sure there is no love lost in that relationship.
Would have loved to have been on the Region Staff Call after he was reinstated a second time. >:D
Reg/CC: And I'd like to welcome back Col. Gagliardi as the commander of RI Wing after his successful appeal to the MARB...again.
Mr. Gagliardi was immediately suspended from membership again pending investigation.
Quote from: FW on October 18, 2011, 02:18:11 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on October 18, 2011, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: SARDOC on October 18, 2011, 03:38:10 AM
^ My thoughts exactly. I'm sure there is no love lost in that relationship.
Would have loved to have been on the Region Staff Call after he was reinstated a second time. >:D
Reg/CC: And I'd like to welcome back Col. Gagliardi as the commander of RI Wing after his successful appeal to the MARB...again.
Mr. Gagliardi was immediately suspended from membership again pending investigation.
That make it 3?
Quote from: FW on October 18, 2011, 02:18:11 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on October 18, 2011, 12:55:43 PM
Quote from: SARDOC on October 18, 2011, 03:38:10 AM
^ My thoughts exactly. I'm sure there is no love lost in that relationship.
Would have loved to have been on the Region Staff Call after he was reinstated a second time. >:D
Reg/CC: And I'd like to welcome back Col. Gagliardi as the commander of RI Wing after his successful appeal to the MARB...again.
Mr. Gagliardi was immediately suspended from membership again pending investigation.
Wow...
I have no clue as to the facts of the case, but at what point does the MARB simply summarily reverse the suspension as an abuse of process. They relieve him: MARB Reverses, they 2b him: the MARB reverses, then they suspend him immediately...at what point does the MARB decide that the Region/CC is just thumbing his nose at the protections afforded by the MARB and making a mockery of them?
^^^The facts warranting the suspension remain the same. At some point the region will get the due process right.
Quote from: Short Field on October 18, 2011, 05:28:40 PM
^^^The facts warranting the suspension remain the same. At some point the region will get the due process right.
If due process isn't followed, then the facts have not been appropriately determined.
Quote from: Short Field on October 18, 2011, 05:28:40 PM
^^^The facts warranting the suspension remain the same. At some point the region will get the due process right.
What "facts"?
Seems to me that the region commander is taking wild stabs in the dark to get rid of this guy.
At what point in time do we as an organization say "enough" and separate the 2 angry kids? Maybe CAP needs to return to kindergarten discipline with time outs and separate play grounds? Come on, this is beyond stupid.
This is when the national commander or BOG needs to step in and say enough is enough. How much money/time/life is CAP wasting on this? They tried twice to get him out, and failed. Maybe cap needs a double jeopardy rule....
We don't know the facts.
We do know the 2b was appealed, the National Appeal Board that was formed recommended termination, and the National Commander accepted that recommendation. That sounds like more than a wild stab to me.
Quote from: FW on October 18, 2011, 02:18:11 PM
Mr. Gagliardi was immediately suspended from membership again pending investigation.
I guess there is no thing such as double or triple jeopardy in Civil Air Patrol. At least if nothing else comes out of this the Region Commander will be well versed on disciplinary procedures and due process. Hopefully the cause for suspension/termination warrants all the trouble and that the member actually did what he was accused of or it may be seen as being done out of spite now.
Quote from: peter rabbit on October 18, 2011, 07:43:12 PM
We don't know the facts.
We do know the 2b was appealed, the National Appeal Board that was formed recommended termination, and the National Commander accepted that recommendation. That sounds like more than a wild stab to me.
..and then the MARB overturned all of that, saying no one (that includes the national commander and the appeal board) followed the rules... so again, when is it time to call "enough".
Quote from: SARDOC on October 18, 2011, 07:48:51 PM
I guess there is no thing such as double or triple jeopardy in Civil Air Patrol. At least if nothing else comes out of this the Region Commander will be well versed on disciplinary procedures and due process. Hopefully the cause for suspension/termination warrants all the trouble and that the member actually did what he was accused of or it may be seen as being done out of spite now.
The prohibition against double jeopardy applies only to criminal trials.
Quote from: Short Field on October 18, 2011, 09:12:48 PM
The prohibition against double jeopardy applies only to criminal trials.
I know...It's nice to see that Civil Air Patrol doesn't have that rule. That way we can really enforce getting rid of a member when they have erred or hold a really wicked vendetta against someone we just don't really like and can try, try again until we get the results we want. >:D
If a member is reinstated by the MARB, it is a done deal. HOWEVER, it doesn't protect a member from another adverse action for a "new" charge.
New charges against a reinstated member (immediately after reinstatement) raises a number of red flags. Anything is possible but, if I were the region commander, I would have made sure I wasn't being "played" before acting. If this turns out to be a blood fued between factions in the wing, a good ending will be impossible.
What was that term used for doing the same thing again and again expecting a different result... :o
Civil Air Patrol
Quote from: ol'fido on October 18, 2011, 11:05:33 PM
Civil Air Patrol
Best reply on CAPTalk in at least a year....