I have had a dilema as a cadet interacting with the public, in uniform, before. The situation was a person being generally nasty towards a group of cadets (this was in JROTC). This lady was getting hostile towards us, looking for our work during an event we were helping out certain people with (generally building and breaking down tables, trash collection, and offering our hand to give people quick help). She nastily started talking to some fellow cadets. Our instructor was informed later on, but I ran into a problem. What do I say without breaking our core values? I am sure an incident like this could happen to any cadet, any time, and we have to be the bigger man/woman. Thanks in advance.
Basically, just shut-up, do your job and let her rant.
Anything else will probably result in a confrontation with her, which is probably what she wants in the first place.
Might be a test of your self-control but you won't be getting into trouble either.
Think of it as "taking one for the team".
You did not provide a lot of detail, but I don't think that you would necessarily have to break your core values just to deal with a cranky adult. If an adult in general seems hostile, and is bugging you, call a cop: Cops don't like adults being "hostile" to children ( and I don't refer to Cadets as children to be demeaning, but most Cadets are legally children) If this was a CAP activity, I would ask where your senior members were, but if you need to act to protect your fellow cadets, start with extreme courtesy, which most adults find disarming and unfamiliar in young adults. If this person gets physical, obscene, or makes actual threats, retreat and call for backup. If you are cornered and feel threatened, get clear of the situation, but don't let anyone break up your group, since there is safety in numbers ( and you can also tear the adult to pieces like a pack of wild hyenas with enough cadets) C.S. Lewis wrote that warriors speak with courteous words and strong blows.( I paraphrase) Break contact if you can't manage the problem without it escalating, or if person is getting wound up ( either the adult or any of your own people) I have heard cadets called "baby killers" and have been called one myself, and I heard a cadet called the "N" word by a member of the public at an activity:Tempers can easily flare. Senior members are not exempt from this, and need to keep calm. If you get in an embarrassing situation and cannot articulate the measures you took to protect yourself, you are likely to end up owning the blame, especially since CAP has a plethora of Monday morning quarterbacks and guardhouse lawyers. Standing around and screaming at a member of the public would be in violation of core values, and a disgrace to your uniform, and could get someone hurt. I think I have addressed your concerns, but if I have misread your post, let us know. FYI, Its never wrong to ask a team member about an issue of honor or of safety.
Major Lord
Quote from: Major Lord on September 28, 2011, 03:13:02 AM
You did not provide a lot of detail, but I don't think that you would necessarily have to break your core values just to deal with a cranky adult. If an adult in general seems hostile, and is bugging you, call a cop: Cops don't like adults being "hostile" to children ( and I don't refer to Cadets as children to be demeaning, but most Cadets are legally children) If this was a CAP activity, I would ask where your senior members were, but if you need to act to protect your fellow cadets, start with extreme courtesy, which most adults find disarming and unfamiliar in young adults. If this person gets physical, obscene, or makes actual threats, retreat and call for backup. If you are cornered and feel threatened, get clear of the situation, but don't let anyone break up your group, since there is safety in numbers ( and you can also tear the adult to pieces like a pack of wild hyenas with enough cadets) C.S. Lewis wrote that warriors speak with courteous words and strong blows.( I paraphrase) Break contact if you can't manage the problem without it escalating, or if person is getting wound up ( either the adult or any of your own people) I have heard cadets called "baby killers" and have been called one myself, and I heard a cadet called the "N" word by a member of the public at an activity:Tempers can easily flare. Senior members are not exempt from this, and need to keep calm. If you get in an embarrassing situation and cannot articulate the measures you took to protect yourself, you are likely to end up owning the blame, especially since CAP has a plethora of Monday morning quarterbacks and guardhouse lawyers. Standing around and screaming at a member of the public would be in violation of core values, and a disgrace to your uniform, and could get someone hurt. I think I have addressed your concerns, but if I have misread your post, let us know. FYI, Its never wrong to ask a team member about an issue of honor or of safety.
Major Lord
I'm being vague because the detail could very easily detract from my question.
Thanks. You didn't misread. I'm trying to make some mental protocal so I can help my teams out in these cases, in the case that it can't be averted through communicating.
I'll give some more details. This lady wanted two cadets to stand next to something, to "protect" it (nobody would do anything to this item because of it being a symbol of something great, and there was cops patroling around too), and we had not received any information about it. This lady was somewhat demeaning, in the sense that she was talking down to the cadets, saying "Who is in charge here, you or [insert name I can't remember]". We were in a very small group, and I noticed some other cadets were growing weary of her statements.
Give her the name of the Senior Member in Charge. or the Event Coordinator who is the one who does the breakdown of assignments (The EC was probably never consulted about her exhibit).
^+1
"I'm sorry ma'am, but we were assigned to do X. If you need us to do Y, you'll have to talk to LtCol Donuteater over by the coffee machine"...
Quote from: Al Sayre on September 28, 2011, 11:38:26 AM
^+1
"I'm sorry ma'am, but we were assigned to do X. If you need us to do Y, you'll have to talk to LtCol Donuteater over by the coffee machine"...
Well, Our "First General Order" as S/M's is to guard the coffee pot and pastry until properly relieved.......Good advice Al!
Major Lord
Never rule out mental disorders. NORMAL people aren't nasty towards kids (cadets). They need to be dealt with by adults. Especially at large public gatherings open to the public. Just because they happen to be involved with an event doesnt mean they arent fruitcakes. Most people who act like that to kids I have found have something going on upstairs and it takes an adult to come over and deal with it. Be polite and courteous WHILE your going to get a Senior Member to come over and hand this person their --- on a platter.
I have a saying that I teach my new cop trainees. I think you'll get my point
"Make every traffic stop extending the olive branch of peace while having a tactical plan to kill everyone inside the vehicle- Gordon Graham"
How does it apply here? On the surface, you are polite, courteous but are ready to act and/or are taking action without the other person even knowing it. Your saying "Yes, ma'am" with a smile on your face while you are signaling another cadet to go get a SM or calling a number and texting your SM saying "GET OVER HERE NOW!"
One of the biggest discredits we do to cadets at large outside activities where CAP is assisting is teaching them respect and courtesy at all costs and never touch on escape and evade techniques. Some people just suck. Sometimes I think cadets would allow themselves to be ordered into an unmarked primer grey van with tinted windows with a single mattress in the back by a stranger just to not be accused of being discourteous.
Quote from: Flying Pig on September 28, 2011, 04:17:10 PM
Never rule out mental disorders. NORMAL people aren't nasty towards kids (cadets). They need to be dealt with by adults. Especially at large public gatherings open to the public. Just because they happen to be involved with an event doesnt mean they arent fruitcakes. Most people who act like that to kids I have found have something going on upstairs and it takes an adult to come over and deal with it. Be polite and courteous WHILE your going to get a Senior Member to come over and hand this person their --- on a platter.
I have a saying that I teach my new cop trainees. I think you'll get my point
"Make every traffic stop extending the olive branch of peace while having a tactical plan to kill everyone inside the vehicle- Gordon Graham"
How does it apply here? On the surface, you are polite, courteous but are ready to act and/or are taking action without the other person even knowing it. Your saying "Yes, ma'am" with a smile on your face while you are signaling another cadet to go get a SM or calling a number and texting your SM saying "GET OVER HERE NOW!"
One of the biggest discredits we do to cadets at large outside activities where CAP is assisting is teaching them respect and courtesy at all costs and never touch on escape and evade techniques. Some people just suck. Sometimes I think cadets would allow themselves to be ordered into an unmarked primer grey van with tinted windows with a single mattress in the back by a stranger just to not be accused of being discourteous.
Great point. I think that deserves to be a required CAP powerpoint/seminar/what ever.
I think they do. Isnt it called CSS, Cadet Survival School? 8)
Quote from: Flying Pig on September 28, 2011, 04:17:10 PM
"Make every traffic stop extending the olive branch of peace while having a tactical plan to kill everyone inside the vehicle- Gordon Graham"
I love Gordon Graham...Great Quote.
Quote from: Flying Pig on September 28, 2011, 04:17:10 PM
One of the biggest discredits we do to cadets at large outside activities where CAP is assisting is teaching them respect and courtesy at all costs and never touch on escape and evade techniques. Some people just suck. Sometimes I think cadets would allow themselves to be ordered into an unmarked primer grey van with tinted windows with a single mattress in the back by a stranger just to not be accused of being discourteous.
2nd ^
There's always "excuse me" and walk away.
We do parking at a county fair, with thousands of cars, some of them operated by nasty or intoxicated people. We tell our cadets not to engage, but to walk away.
It's tough to argue with someone who isn't there.
Quote from: EMT-83 on September 29, 2011, 02:09:15 AM
It's tough to argue with someone who isn't there.
In my line of work I see people who seem to be quite successful at it!
Quote from: Flying Pig on September 29, 2011, 04:51:06 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on September 29, 2011, 02:09:15 AM
It's tough to argue with someone who isn't there.
In my line of work I see people who seem to be quite successful at it!
And you will know them by their Walkman headphones and wristbands for their only I.D......
Major Lord
Walk away. You gain nothing arguing with a fool. I used "excuse me while I hang up" and do so when they called the field office (police station in you will) and started in on me. Use to make my SAC (chief) mad but he never said anyting to me.
Quote from: Hardshell Clam on September 29, 2011, 11:01:51 PM
Walk away. You gain nothing arguing with a fool. I used "excuse me while I hang up" and do so when they called the field office (police station in you will) and started in on me. Use to make my SAC (chief) mad but he never said anyting to me.
The feds aren't spared from crazy calls, eh?
QuoteThe feds aren't spared from crazy calls, eh?
No, we just get more of the "the govt is spying with black helo" calls.
Youd be surprised at how many of those "STOP FOLLOWING ME" calls we get at the hangar. A good one I took last month was a guy calling irate that we just got some sort of soap all over his car from washing the power lines. I told him "Sir, the Sheriff's Department doesn't wash power lines." However, I can actually hear a helicopter in the background on the phone so I know hes not totally crazy.
"B-------!" He yells. "Your green and gold helicopter is over my house hovering and washing the transformers and your getting soap all over my car whos going to pay for this, it better not eat my paint....blah blah blah!"
"Umm, well sir, Im the only pilot at work today, and all three of our aircraft are in the hangar, Im looking at them. You know, I have an idea! Do the last two letters in the tail number say CE"?
"Yeah, looks like it."
"OK, the CE means California Edison, and their helicopters are green and yellow. Anymore questions? Have a nice day."