permissible for a cap cadet in uniform at a cap activity,
to sign up for, and go on, an EAA young eagles flight?
if not, prove it :)
I don't see why not.
This cadet?
0 O-Flights, 1 EAA YE Flights. (As a late start in CAP, only the EAA opportunity arose before I turned 18)
I even got my certificate to prove it.
And it was done as you described. (Flown by Dick McSpadden, Sr.- father of a former Thunderbird 1- now THAT was an awesome bit of trivia!)
FWIW, I took a Young Eagles flight at a CAP activity about 4 years ago.
Our squadron has close ties with a Young Eagles pilot who flys us quite a bit in his aircraft (has both fixed and rotary wing A/C). We normally go in civvies so we can forego the "CAP activity" status, but if you had the proper activity form signed off, I don't see why it couldn't be a uniformed CAP activity.
I guess with that, what's the difference between a Cadet going for a young Eagles flight in uniform, and that same Cadet going for a ride in a museum Huey or AT-6, which I was prohibited from doing because they were in uniform?
Mike-
pre young eagles, I remember my first Cadet Plane ride (They were not called O-Rides back then) It was in a PT-17 Stearman (In November- can you say cold?). Hammerhead Stall, slow roll, and a loop. Excited, thrilled, scared, all at the same time. There were three of us cadets there that day, and our pilot was a CAP 2LT just back from Air Force Flight Training.
Quote from: Stearmann4 on September 16, 2011, 11:55:19 AM
I guess with that, what's the difference between a Cadet going for a young Eagles flight in uniform, and that same Cadet going for a ride in a museum Huey or AT-6, which I was prohibited from doing because they were in uniform?
Who ever told you that was making things up on the spot.
There are specific rules about members flying in military aircraft, but museum airplanes are no longer "military aircraft", they just look similar.
With that said, a commander or local PIC can always prohibit a given activity by a member for the simple reason they don't like the idea, or feel the action is inappropriate in a CAP uniform. It is understandable from a liability standpoint that a commander might be reticent to put a cadet in a museum bird in uniform, since that could be loosely construed as a CAP activity, and yet CAP has no control over the aviation asset, same, I guess could be said for
Young Eagles, but both are easily remedied by simply changing your clothes.
I had a Mitchell recipient a couple years ago who was granted a T-6 ride from a local museum as a reward - we even had the planes on the ramp during the ceremony. After receiving his pip, he went and changed out of his uniform and headed to the wild blue with a big smile. Easy Peasy.
In the case of the Young Eagles, not only is it an appropriate AE activity, it strengthens the relationship with local GA. Win / win.
It's not uncommon for us to have a unit help with ground organization and have a recruiting table at YE rides, and then the pilots offer a
pattern ride to those who helped, etc.
I've had this situation come up before. Every Young Eagle Flight activity I've seen has been part of some kind of Air Show, so IMHO it falls under CAPR 900-5:
7. Air Shows.
a. Prohibited Activities. No unit or member of CAP is authorized to sponsor or cosponsor any air show. CAP members may not:
1)Accept rides in an air show as a part of any official CAP activity.
2)Be used as security guards, or damage control.
3)Taxi non-CAP aircraft before, during, or after an air show.
4)Direct parking of aircraft unless having received training on aircraft marshalling and having a flight line authorization on CAPF 101 or CAPF 101T.
If Young Eagles flights are going to be available, I told my cadets:
1) Your parents must be present to sign the waiver for you. (Young Eagles requirement)
2) Bring civvies - usually just jeans/shorts and tennis shoes so you can change clothes. (They can fly in jeans/shorts and a CAP T-shirt if they want.
3) You can sign out of the CAP activity, change, fly change back and then sign back in. - Once they are released to an on scene parent it's a non-issue.
Young Eagles =/= Airshow flight...
I would tend to err on the side of caution on this one. As I said above the ones I have seen have been offered as part of an airshow.
The other prohibition might come from from CAPR 60-1.
2-4. Aircraft Requirements.
a. Ultralight, aerolight, hang glider and similar aircraft, light sport aircraft, rotorcraft, lighter-than-air (except balloons), experimental, primary category, and home-built aircraft are not authorized for use on any CAP flight activity.
Since most Young Eagle flights are done by EAA, you would need to verify that the aircraft used does not fall into one of the above categories if this is going to be a CAP activity.
From a liability standpoint, if you sign them out to a parent, they are no longer at a CAP activity. No guess work (or lawyers or IG's etc.) involved...
Airshow flight is an air show flight... Young Eagles do not partake in the demonstration, simply use airshows as a way to reach more youths.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If Ned is around he can probably chime in here, but I think any lawyer would make the arguement that if it is at an airshow, it is an air show flight... I think Young Eagles is a great program, and AFAIK has a great safety record, but I wouldn't want to be the commander who authorized it and then had to justify it. Especially when there is a simple solution that avoids any question of whether or not it was a CAP activity of any type.
The one Eagle Flight I was on, was not at an airshow. So I'm of the opinion that "Air Show Flight" means an exhibition flight as part of the Air Show.
Quote from: Al Sayre on September 16, 2011, 06:21:49 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If Ned is around he can probably chime in here, but I think any lawyer would make the arguement that if it is at an airshow, it is an air show flight...
I see your reasoning, and wouldn't argue with any commander of mine who adopted that stance, but that same logic would essentially prohibited us from flying our aircraft in or out of shows for static display.
This may be a good subject for the CP folks to run up the flagpole at the next NB. It would be simple enough to word an exemption in either or both regulations. However I think that you'd get a lot of pushback from the USAF, our Insurance Underwriters, and the General Counsel about allowing it as a CAP activity as they would have no way to control the safety of flight aspects of the activity. I think it is more likely that it would end with an explicit prohibition... YMMV
Quote from: Eclipse on September 16, 2011, 07:47:25 PM
Quote from: Al Sayre on September 16, 2011, 06:21:49 PM
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If Ned is around he can probably chime in here, but I think any lawyer would make the arguement that if it is at an airshow, it is an air show flight...
I see your reasoning, and wouldn't argue with any commander of mine who adopted that stance, but that same logic would essentially prohibited us from flying our aircraft in or out of shows for static display.
Not really, the prohibition is against accepting rides or taxiing non-CAP aircraft. A pilot flying an aircraft in or out, before and after an airshow for static display purposes is doing neither. Although you could possibly make the argument about him carrying passengers while doing so.