As I understand it, SE Region Members, who were members at the time of the Deepwater Horizon Response, may now wear the National Commander's Unit Citation Ribbon. Does anyone know the exact date of the official end to the mission?
Quote from: MarkJ on August 25, 2011, 06:03:53 PM
As I understand it, SE Region Members, who were members at the time of the Deepwater Horizon Response, may now wear the National Commander's Unit Citation Ribbon. Does anyone know the exact date of the official end to the mission?
Everything I've ever heard said it was FLWG only...
Erm... FLWG got a UC award for everyone to wear, not sure about any other awards.
Just spoke to former SER Commander Col James Rushing who is a friend of mine.
FLWG was issued a Unit Citation but a National Commanders Unit Citation was never issued for SER
Quote from: Hill CAP on August 25, 2011, 07:04:33 PM
Just spoke to former SER Commander Col James Rushing who is a friend of mine.
FLWG was issued a Unit Citation but a National Commanders Unit Citation was never issued for SER
Wasn't there something else given to those who participated in the mission itself?
[off topic]
QuoteExtended Hiatus Statues
What is that?
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Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 25, 2011, 08:58:41 PM
QuoteExtended Hiatus Statues
What is that?
[/off topic]
Probably something close to "College Limbo"
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 25, 2011, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Hill CAP on August 25, 2011, 07:04:33 PM
Just spoke to former SER Commander Col James Rushing who is a friend of mine.
FLWG was issued a Unit Citation but a National Commanders Unit Citation was never issued for SER
Wasn't there something else given to those who participated in the mission itself?
[off topic]
QuoteExtended Hiatus Statues
What is that?
[/off topic]
Are they bronze? Plaster? Marble? Composite? Other?
All those who participated where awarded the Civil Air Patrol DISASTER RELIEF RIBBON WITH "V" DEVICE date 2 May 2011 :clap:
Quote from: chief2 on August 25, 2011, 09:47:45 PM
All those who participated where awarded the Civil Air Patrol DISASTER RELIEF RIBBON WITH "V" DEVICE date 2 May 2011 :clap:
<_< I have no idea how I forgot about that. Seems like the standard award for it.
SER Wings AL, FL, GA, MS & TN were issued the NCUC at the NB, paperwork to follow. Should be pictures from the NB in Louisville. Expect to see the NHQ authorization in the next couple of weeks after everyone gets back and caught up.
I know it is over 60 days, but has there been anything further published on this? Thank you.
I just got an e-mail from our Wing Administrator...1-Apr-2011 through 30-Jun-2011.
It was awarded to the following units:
SE Region HQ
AL WG
FL WG
GA WG
LA WG
MS WG
MO WG
SD WG
TN WG
So, not exclusively SER
Was this all for DWH or are these for other missions as well? Can't see that MO or SD sent enough people down there to justify giving the entire wing a UC.
I'm not 100% sure, but the item says:
"8. The Civil Air Patrol NATIONAL COMMANDER'S UNIT CITATION AWARD is awarded to the following units for outstanding achievements, exceptional service, and high degree of performance during 1 April through 30 June 2011, effective 20 August 2011. AUTHORITY: CAPR 39-3."
Then the list of units I listed above.
dwh was in 2010.
gawg members who participated were awarded the pres dr with silver v, although dwh was not a pres declared disaster.
i think the "v" attachments were bronze initially, but were changed to silver as the bronze represented valor under fire.
bill
Quote from: JeffDG on November 06, 2011, 01:13:16 PM
I just got an e-mail from our Wing Administrator...1-Apr-2011 through 30-Jun-2011.
It was awarded to the following units:
SE Region HQ
AL WG
FL WG
GA WG
LA WG
MS WG
MO WG
SD WG
TN WG
So, not exclusively SER
For clarification, was this NCUC awarded to all members within those Wings, or those members who participated in DWH missions? Has there been any additional information about this?
Quote from: DBlair on November 12, 2011, 12:55:24 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on November 06, 2011, 01:13:16 PM
I just got an e-mail from our Wing Administrator...1-Apr-2011 through 30-Jun-2011.
It was awarded to the following units:
SE Region HQ
AL WG
FL WG
GA WG
LA WG
MS WG
MO WG
SD WG
TN WG
So, not exclusively SER
For clarification, was this NCUC awarded to all members within those Wings, or those members who participated in DWH missions? Has there been any additional information about this?
It's a "Unit" citation, so is awarded to the unit. In terms of ribbons, all members who were members during the designated timeframe are entitled to wear.
again, if this was for dwh, the dates should have been in 2010. but, dwh lasted later than june.
bill
Quote from: JeffDG on November 12, 2011, 02:57:15 PM
Quote from: DBlair on November 12, 2011, 12:55:24 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on November 06, 2011, 01:13:16 PM
I just got an e-mail from our Wing Administrator...1-Apr-2011 through 30-Jun-2011.
It was awarded to the following units:
SE Region HQ
AL WG
FL WG
GA WG
LA WG
MS WG
MO WG
SD WG
TN WG
So, not exclusively SER
For clarification, was this NCUC awarded to all members within those Wings, or those members who participated in DWH missions? Has there been any additional information about this?
It's a "Unit" citation, so is awarded to the unit. In terms of ribbons, all members who were members during the designated timeframe are entitled to wear.
I figured I would ask as I'm in FLWG and haven't heard anything about this as of yet.
Quote from: starshippe on November 12, 2011, 07:02:51 PM
again, if this was for dwh, the dates should have been in 2010. but, dwh lasted later than june.
bill
For this year, I'm not sure what the SER folks were doing, but from April to June I know that LA Wing, MO Wing, SD Wing, etc. were dealing with the Mississippi River Flooding missions.
We worked our behinds off on that mission, and it was a very rewarding moment to receive the NCUC for our hard work.
Thom
that seems to explain everything.
congrats on ur efforts and the recognition.
bill
Quote from: Thom on November 13, 2011, 01:44:06 AM
Quote from: starshippe on November 12, 2011, 07:02:51 PM
again, if this was for dwh, the dates should have been in 2010. but, dwh lasted later than june.
bill
For this year, I'm not sure what the SER folks were doing, but from April to June I know that LA Wing, MO Wing, SD Wing, etc. were dealing with the Mississippi River Flooding missions.
We worked our behinds off on that mission, and it was a very rewarding moment to receive the NCUC for our hard work.
Thom
TNWG was on the Mississippi flooding too.
this from ms susie parker at nhq....
They were for Deepwater Horizon and the dates covered were 1 Apr – 30 Jun 2010. It was given in 2011 at the NB and there could have been a typo on the orders. I'm checking that now but it was definitely for the activities of Deepwater Horizon.
SUSAN P. PARKER
CAP National Headquarters
Is it really that hard to get a copy of the authorization?
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 18, 2011, 06:09:17 PM
Is it really that hard to get a copy of the authorization?
Seriously.
Processed properly, there should be a certificate (somewhere), a CAPF120, and possibly a PA.
Considering the nature of the award, and how these kinds of things are challenged, I would not
wear the ribbon or attachment until I had a copy of the PA in my hand.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2011, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 18, 2011, 06:09:17 PM
Is it really that hard to get a copy of the authorization?
Seriously.
Processed properly, there should be a certificate (somewhere), a CAPF120, and possibly a PA.
Considering the nature of the award, and how these kinds of things are challenged, I would not
wear the ribbon or attachment until I had a copy of the PA in my hand.
Who should we contact for a copy of the actual paperwork. It seems this was mentioned in CAP Volunteer as "Florida Wing" (presuming wing-wide), but I haven't heard anything about this on the FLWG side of things. Before buying/wearing the ribbon, I'd like to be sure it was actually awarded as many of us assume, to all of FLWG.
You commander. One would think that at a minimum the 120's were forwarded to the wing CC's for downstream distribution.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2011, 07:17:43 PM
You commander. One would think that at a minimum the 120's were forwarded to the wing CC's for downstream distribution.
I'm at the Wing echelon, so I'm guessing Wing/CC or Wing/DP would probably have some info about this, but it seems there has not been any mention as of yet.
Quote from: DBlair on November 18, 2011, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2011, 07:17:43 PM
You commander. One would think that at a minimum the 120's were forwarded to the wing CC's for downstream distribution.
I'm at the Wing echelon, so I'm guessing Wing/CC or Wing/DP would probably have some info about this, but it seems there has not been any mention as of yet.
Time to ask. No paper, it didn't happen.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2011, 08:01:08 PM
Quote from: DBlair on November 18, 2011, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2011, 07:17:43 PM
You commander. One would think that at a minimum the 120's were forwarded to the wing CC's for downstream distribution.
I'm at the Wing echelon, so I'm guessing Wing/CC or Wing/DP would probably have some info about this, but it seems there has not been any mention as of yet.
Time to ask. No paper, it didn't happen.
Agreed.
Quote from: DBlair on November 18, 2011, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2011, 07:17:43 PM
You commander. One would think that at a minimum the 120's were forwarded to the wing CC's for downstream distribution.
I'm at the Wing echelon, so I'm guessing Wing/CC or Wing/DP would probably have some info about this, but it seems there has not been any mention as of yet.
Yes, I'd think your wing should've received a personnel action (it's not the actual 120) from National. I know TN Wing did. It simply states that the National Commander's Unit Citation Award is awarded to...(fill in a bit more text + dates)...and has a list of Wings. Florida is one that's listed. I don't have the first page of the action so I can't give you a date range, but the award is effective 20 Aug 11 so it's been since that time.
Quote from: brenaud on November 19, 2011, 09:24:25 PM
Quote from: DBlair on November 18, 2011, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 18, 2011, 07:17:43 PM
You commander. One would think that at a minimum the 120's were forwarded to the wing CC's for downstream distribution.
I'm at the Wing echelon, so I'm guessing Wing/CC or Wing/DP would probably have some info about this, but it seems there has not been any mention as of yet.
Yes, I'd think your wing should've received a personnel action (it's not the actual 120) from National. I know TN Wing did. It simply states that the National Commander's Unit Citation Award is awarded to...(fill in a bit more text + dates)...and has a list of Wings. Florida is one that's listed. I don't have the first page of the action so I can't give you a date range, but the award is effective 20 Aug 11 so it's been since that time.
I just received a response from Wing Hq and it seems that while being awarded the NCUC is known, the information was never actually disseminated to FLWG.
so........
its common knowledge that an ncuc was awarded to ser members. actually i heard there were two ncuc's, one to ser for dwh, and one to other wings for the floods, but a possible typo error confused the issue a bit.
anyway, as far as the documentation that i should have in my personnel folder, in order to substantiate my ribbon...
is a copy of the national pa ok, or do i need a letter from georgia wing? do they need to validate their members for that time frame, or can they just send a copy of the national pa?
but.... at this time the national pa may have the date typo. so, although it will work for me, having been a member for both of the time frames, it would not work for others.
sigh.
bill
Quote from: starshippe on November 21, 2011, 03:40:42 PM
is a copy of the national pa ok, or do i need a letter from georgia wing? do they need to validate their members for that time frame, or can they just send a copy of the national pa?
While I can only really speak for what I would expect to see in Group 1 of TN Wing (so no warranties expressed or implied, your mileage may vary, warranty not valid if tag removed, etc.), your personnel records in e-Services should be sufficient documentation for you being a member of the Wing during the time in question. The letter from NHQ should suffice (it does for me as a personnel officer) as it's an official announcement from the echelon that approved the award. If you look in 39-3, it makes reference to certain awards being announced in published personnel actions from NHQ. I consider this to fall in with that. At the very least, your chain of command could confirm this.
Quote from: starshippe on November 21, 2011, 03:40:42 PM
but.... at this time the national pa may have the date typo. so, although it will work for me, having been a member for both of the time frames, it would not work for others.
sigh.
bill
True. Perhaps a correction will be forthcoming.
Quote from: starshippe on November 21, 2011, 03:40:42 PM
so........
its common knowledge that an ncuc was awarded to ser members. actually i heard there were two ncuc's, one to ser for dwh, and one to other wings for the floods, but a possible typo error confused the issue a bit.
anyway, as far as the documentation that i should have in my personnel folder, in order to substantiate my ribbon...
is a copy of the national pa ok, or do i need a letter from georgia wing? do they need to validate their members for that time frame, or can they just send a copy of the national pa?
but.... at this time the national pa may have the date typo. so, although it will work for me, having been a member for both of the time frames, it would not work for others.
sigh.
bill
Do you have a copy of National's PA available to you?
If so, this seems to be exactly the paperwork FLWG is seeking, as I heard that FL hasn't yet received *any* paperwork for it.
Anyone still question why there is a process to these things and dotting the "i's" is important?
At a minimum someone should have taken the time to forward the PA to every member who is covered. No one should have to guess.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2011, 06:34:41 PM
Anyone still question why there is a process to these things and dotting the "i's" is important?
At a minimum someone should have taken the time to forward the PA to every member who is covered. No one should have to guess.
In the past, this seems to be what was done, but with this award, it seems there was a break in the communication chain-- specifically, in sending the PA to the Wings.
When CAWG got one for Challenger, we were given a copy of the PA from NHQ. I generated a supplemental PA that listed all members of the unit during the time frame. Each person got a copy of both PAs in their F66/F45. Problem solved.
What I've seen is an excerpt from a PA (actually the last page, signed. with the specific award referenced), including the award to my wing. That was distributed (from my reading of the e-mail) to Group & Squadron commanders, and cc'd to the Wing Staff. Distribution below that level is the responsibility of the commanders (group and squadrons) involved.
Quote from: SarDragon on November 21, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
When CAWG got one for Challenger, we were given a copy of the PA from NHQ. I generated a supplemental PA that listed all members of the unit during the time frame. Each person got a copy of both PAs in their F66/F45. Problem solved.
The Katrina and KY PA's, all called out those presented by name, and each person got a copy.
The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.
Quote from: JeffDG on November 21, 2011, 08:37:20 PM
What I've seen is an excerpt from a PA (actually the last page, signed. with the specific award referenced), including the award to my wing. That was distributed (from my reading of the e-mail) to Group & Squadron commanders, and cc'd to the Wing Staff. Distribution below that level is the responsibility of the commanders (group and squadrons) involved.
The last Unit Citation (regular flavor) that was awarded to FLWG was sent out via email to all members and all units. It seems that FLWG Hq is wanting to handle the National Commander's Unit Citation in the same manner, but Wing Hq still has not received the PA paperwork for it to forward to the membership. It's stuck in a "...we know we were awarded it, but we have no paperwork to prove it..." sort of situation. Perhaps I'll contact NHQ to help connect things.
Quote from: SarDragon on November 21, 2011, 09:59:36 PM
The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.
I disagree - we already discussed in another thread how simple this would be to accomplish.
The Katrina PA encompassed several 3-4 different regions, a bunch of wings and in excess of 500 Names, yet they seemed able to produce and distribute it.
Unit CC's send their list to the group, group to wing, wing to region, done.
This is much like National Commander's of the past who would hand out commendation ribbons and then never document them, leaving the recipient to be on the defensive the rest of their CAP career.
Yep, half the stuff I have on, I get to be defensive about occasionally. But, it isn't so much that the records were never produced, but my squadron commander threw away my records about 5 years too early when I transferred to senior membership.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2011, 10:37:44 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on November 21, 2011, 09:59:36 PM
The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.
I disagree - we already discussed in another thread how simple this would be to accomplish.
The Katrina PA encompassed several 3-4 different regions, a bunch of wings and in excess of 500 Names, yet they seemed able to produce and distribute it.
Unit CC's send their list to the group, group to wing, wing to region, done.
This is much like National Commander's of the past who would hand out commendation ribbons and then never document them, leaving the recipient to be on the defensive the rest of their CAP career.
This was 2003. The award effort was entirely top-down. No one at the squadron level knew anything about any UCA until it was announced at the Wing Conference that year. Your method should work, if the proper requests are made ahead of the announcement.
in answer to dblair....
no, i have no documentation other than that contained on this thread.
i was told of the award by someone who was there during the presentation.
bill
Quote from: Eclipse on November 21, 2011, 10:37:44 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on November 21, 2011, 09:59:36 PM
The original PA had several awards on it, including some individual awards, and three or four wing level Unit Commendations. Coming up with several thousand names, and putting them all on the PA, was an unreasonable task.
I disagree - we already discussed in another thread how simple this would be to accomplish.
The Katrina PA encompassed several 3-4 different regions, a bunch of wings and in excess of 500 Names, yet they seemed able to produce and distribute it.
Unit CC's send their list to the group, group to wing, wing to region, done.
This is much like National Commander's of the past who would hand out commendation ribbons and then never document them, leaving the recipient to be on the defensive the rest of their CAP career.
Caveat before I start...I tend to nitpick about paperwork. Ask anyone who works with/deals with me with any regularity. (JeffDG can confirm)
I wouldn't say it's unreasonable, but I might argue it's unnecessary. The criterion for the award is membership in the Wing, so the subordinate commanders really don't need to verify that someone met some standard of contribution. They'd only need to confirm who was a member. Wing should already have access to this via e-Services. So, with that it'd be really easy to do a form letter PA that included everyone. In reality, they don't really need the list as proof of who was a member, because the member reports in e-Services contain membership/transfer information now.
That said, in this case, Wing is not the approving authority. The "actual" authorization is the personnel action from National HQ and that (at least in my opinion) is what should go in each personnel file. That said, it might make sense to write up a memo with the paperwork from NHQ attached. The memo could simply clarify that all members of the wing during the period are authorized the award per the attachment and the current R39-3. Distribution should be ?WG/ALL (fill in the appropriate state abbreviation for ?). It could be an email blast to all members, it could (/should) be top-down through the chain of command, it could also be posted on a Wing website (I don't think there are any major issues with that...no personal information, and it's public knowledge that the award was made).
Were the Katrina/KY PAs that listed everyone individual awards or unit citations (of either flavor)? If they were individual then I agree that's a totally different ballgame and all personnel should be listed. TNWG did that for our response to the severe storms back in April.
As far as getting the documentation, I think you're on the right track...work through your Wing HQ to National. Hopefully that'll work. (If not perhaps wings can talk to each other & pass the info, although I wouldn't want to speak for someone else/seem to sideswipe the proper channels/etc.). Good luck & keep us posted.
Quote from: brenaud on November 23, 2011, 12:31:12 AMThe criterion for the award is membership in the Wing, so the subordinate commanders really don't need to verify that someone met some standard of contribution.
Which as we discussed before, means that every empty shirt and patron member got a dec as well.
Yes, the Katrina and KY PA's were for Nat Comm Comms, DR-V's and higher decs for the people involved, not the wings.
Here is a copy of the citation, received directly from SER/CC.
well, its certainly nice to see the real mccoy. thanks for posting that. there is no doubt about those dates.
it seems like it would need something, like a name or signature or notary stamp or cap seal of some sort, to make it official.
anyway, we have the thread question resolved.
by the way if u order this from the v place, make sure u get the correct ribbon. they were going to send me the cap0725a ribbon. the correct ribbon is the cap0733.
thanks again,
bill
If I can remember, I'll scan the PA next time I get to HQ...
Quote from: Al Sayre on November 23, 2011, 02:19:56 PM
If I can remember, I'll scan the PA next time I get to HQ...
Thank you, that would be very much appreciated!