Recently my SQD was invited by the Base Commander to become members of the Officers Club (or open mess). The unit has a very good relationship with the AF on the base. It costs about 50 dollars to join, but the benefits are real nice. Free haircuts, quarter draft nights, lunch buffets, etc. I was wondering if anyone else has taken to using their O-Club? Were there any problems from the CAP members using the club. I want to get all my Officers to join (not forcing them to though!) just wondering if I am missing any obvious negative detail.
Second, I recently found out that some of my cadets are going on Base and using Moral services (like the gym and theatre). Although the Base Commander has no problem with this, it seems like these cadets are taking benefits that they are not entitled to, let alone telling anyone about. The group of Cadets are not military dependants and are just CAP Cadets. Should this continue? Hopefully others have had similar experiences!
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 12, 2007, 09:45:46 PMAlthough the Base Commander has no problem with this
You answered your own question. As an AD member...I don't care about who else uses my benifits. As a CAP member I'm only concerned about how they conduct themselves while representing CAP to our USAF brothers.
From Air Force Instruction 10-2701
Quote3.9. Installation Support. To carry out AFAMs, it is important that CAP personnel have access to adequate facilities and services. At their discretion and expense, Air Force Installation commanders may permit CAP to use Installation services and facilities. Long-term support may include designated CAP use of
facilities and services. Short-term support may include temporary billeting, messing, and ground transportation for CAP activities. Installation commanders will coordinate with CAP-USAF before entering into any host Installation support agreements with CAP units or activities.
Quote3.17. Installation Commander Discretion. To the extent allowed by law, installation commanders may exercise their discretion in determining whether access to facilities and services described in this instruction should be further limited.
So, if the base commander wants to allow you to use those facilities they can. Heck, even if our base allowed such activities I don't think we would bother taking advantage. It takes longer to get a pass to get on the base than the movie or workout is worth.
Quarter Draft Nights? Free haircuts?
What base are you near?
Quote from: RiverAux on January 12, 2007, 11:57:49 PM
From Air Force Instruction 10-2701
Quote3.9. Installation Support. To carry out AFAMs, it is important that CAP personnel have access to adequate facilities and services. At their discretion and expense, Air Force Installation commanders may permit CAP to use Installation services and facilities. Long-term support may include designated CAP use of
facilities and services. Short-term support may include temporary billeting, messing, and ground transportation for CAP activities. Installation commanders will coordinate with CAP-USAF before entering into any host Installation support agreements with CAP units or activities.
Quote3.17. Installation Commander Discretion. To the extent allowed by law, installation commanders may exercise their discretion in determining whether access to facilities and services described in this instruction should be further limited.
So, if the base commander wants to allow you to use those facilities they can. Heck, even if our base allowed such activities I don't think we would bother taking advantage. It takes longer to get a pass to get on the base than the movie or workout is worth.
Umm... if you read your own quote you'll see it says "To carry out AFAMs"... what AFAM is going to the base to use the bowling alley?
I personally don't see any issue with CAP members using MWR sites if the installation commander is okay with it, but you have to question yourself... how much crap will you be in if they break something or say something to someone or... what if something happens to them on base with no supervision? Your behind is going to be under the lawnmower. By the way, why didn't they ask for permission before this? They aren't allowed to do it unless they have expressed permission of the base CC.
I know at my previous post in Syracuse, NY, the ANG base had invited us to become members of the O-Club which was only $10 a year and also invited all our officers to use the base gym. However, the cadets were not invited to either of these.
Quote from: lordmonar on January 12, 2007, 10:33:50 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 12, 2007, 09:45:46 PMAlthough the Base Commander has no problem with this
You answered your own question. As an AD member...I don't care about who else uses my benifits. As a CAP member I'm only concerned about how they conduct themselves while representing CAP to our USAF brothers.
That's about it. I think your problem comes in you say it "appears the base CC has no prob" with cause apparently they haven't said stop, which is very dif from giving you permission. I think the kind of problem you might run into is when the gym is busy or something & your guys seem to others to be in the way or depriving services from those the stuff is there for. I don't know that yall's facilities have that kind of problem, but I could easily see authorization to use them only during non-peak times. You have to understand also that when people get frustrated, they are not going to come right out & say it. That builds up & up till something serious happens & it all rolls out at once. CAP's gotten in a lot of trouble that way over the years when the spark incedent seemed trivial by itself.
The O-club sounds like a great deal. It's certainly a very good way for your officers to interact with AF officers & build good networked relationships that create a foundation of respect, etc. Just do NOT let your guys get sloshed & act like idiots, or worse get poped for a DUI on the way off base - God can you imagine. Maintain really good liaison & build strong relationships so that the base CC or whomever he's designated feels free to give you a heads up before something is allowed to get out of hand. Long as you do that, take advantage of everything they're willing to give.
QuoteUmm... if you read your own quote you'll see it says "To carry out AFAMs"... what AFAM is going to the base to use the bowling alley?
C'mon, you've got to use your imagination..... bowling is a great cardiovascular activity and builds arm strength. And since good health is critical to being able to carry out AFAMs without injury (which the AF would pay for), then allowing CAP members to use these facilities makes sense... ;)
DNall is right. Act like guests, since you are.
Here at PAFB, CAP has FULL access to all MWR activities. The aero club and the golf course are popular options, as is the boat rental. We also can use the fitness center, the bowling alley, and the shopettes and clothing sales (but not the main BX, and not for cigarettes or liquor.)
We used to have access to the Officers' Club, but it burned down about 2 years ago. They were going to rebuild it, but a general with a clearly-disordered sense of priorities decided to build a new headquarters for the Security Forces Squadron instead.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 13, 2007, 02:54:13 PM
QuoteUmm... if you read your own quote you'll see it says "To carry out AFAMs"... what AFAM is going to the base to use the bowling alley?
C'mon, you've got to use your imagination..... bowling is a great cardiovascular activity and builds arm strength. And since good health is critical to being able to carry out AFAMs without injury (which the AF would pay for), then allowing CAP members to use these facilities makes sense... ;)
You don't have to stretch that far. It's a morale facility that keeps AF personnel spirits up so they do a better job. Having Happy CAP member that think the AF (at least locally) is looking out for them makes for dedicate active members doing AF missions on demand & building cadets who may well end up in the military down the road. If a base commander hast the extra capacity avail, it's really a good idea for the AF if he'll let you use it.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 13, 2007, 03:09:12 PM
We used to have access to the Officers' Club, but it burned down about 2 years ago. They were going to rebuild it, but a general with a clearly-disordered sense of priorities decided to build a new headquarters for the Security Forces Squadron instead.
Dear God what was he thinking? This is an AF general we're talking about? Must not have been a pilot, he didn't follow the checklist: bowling alley, o-club, married housing, BOQ, e-club, ATC tower, HQ bldg, then go back to Congress for more money, THEN the runway & finally enlisted dorms w/ whatever you got left.
QuoteYou don't have to stretch that far. It's a morale facility that keeps AF personnel spirits up so they do a better job. Having Happy CAP member that think the AF (at least locally) is looking out for them makes for dedicate active members doing AF missions on demand & building cadets who may well end up in the military down the road. If a base commander hast the extra capacity avail, it's really a good idea for the AF if he'll let you use it.
I was joking of course....
You called it. Not a pilot.
Dude had nothing but a "Pocket Rocket."
IIRC, most MWR activities are required to be sel-sustaining now, so increased usage = increased revenue. Sounds like win-win to me.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 13, 2007, 03:09:12 PM
We used to have access to the Officers' Club, but it burned down about 2 years ago. They were going to rebuild it, but a general with a clearly-disordered sense of priorities decided to build a new headquarters for the Security Forces Squadron instead.
I drove past that area on A1A when I was there in December and thought "Crap, when did that happen? Bummer..."
Years ago we used to visit the Selfridge ANGB officers club after Wing meetings. The O-Club was across the street from the bldg that wing hq was in, so it was not a stretch to hit the club with the boss.
You are correct, it is a good way to interact/network with your AF counterparts. You just have to "act the part" correctly (and that means no getting [mess] faced then driving off base, etc).
Scuttlebutt had it that MG Harwell used to visit the Maxwell AFB club and stay there until all hours. It is customary that when there is a general officer present, the club does not close. Well, the club folks were getting a little bent that this CAP general officer was taking advantage of that.
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 13, 2007, 03:09:12 PM
We used to have access to the Officers' Club, but it burned down about 2 years ago. They were going to rebuild it, but a general with a clearly-disordered sense of priorities decided to build a new headquarters for the Security Forces Squadron instead.
So they are on site to defend the liquid refreshments once the O-Club is re-built in an adjacent location, clearly...never question a general's foresight!
Right.
The adjacent location is the NCO club, now called The Tides Consolidated Club. It is so small, they have to close the bar for any reserved function.
Oh, well there's still Coconuts in Cocoa Beach. Be there during spring break... Dollar draft night, fake ID's, and bikinis are a killer combination!
Quote from: NIN on January 13, 2007, 09:27:34 PM
Scuttlebutt had it that MG Harwell used to visit the Maxwell AFB club and stay there until all hours. It is customary that when there is a general officer present, the club does not close. Well, the club folks were getting a little bent that this CAP general officer was taking advantage of that.
Now we know the "real" reason why CAP ended up wearing the "Berry Boards"!!! ;D
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 13, 2007, 03:59:01 PM
You called it. Not a pilot.
Dude had nothing but a "Pocket Rocket."
Although in this day and age, the 'coneheads' would be wearing 'spwings' instead of the 'pocket rocket' on the 'toilet seat'. ;D
(Translation: 'Coneheads' - a disparaging term for missile launch crews. 'Spwings' - the new space wings that replaced the 'pocket rocket'. 'Toilet seat' - the 'operations designator' surrounding the 'pocket rocket'.)
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on January 13, 2007, 03:59:01 PM
You called it. Not a pilot.
Dude had nothing but a "Pocket Rocket."
Never fails!
Yeah. Patrick is Space Command. Lots of spwings here. They look like the CAP solo badge, kinda.
The only real flying unit here is the 920th Rescue, a Reserve unit. Snake eatin' PJ's.
The old general would close the airfield to flight operations when he had retirement ceremonies, so those pesky airplane engines wouldn't drown out his speech.
I think this is a neat idea. I don't think Cadets should be allowed to use mwr alone though.
Quote from: mikeylikey on January 12, 2007, 09:45:46 PM
Recently my SQD was invited by the Base Commander to become members of the Officers Club (or open mess). The unit has a very good relationship with the AF on the base. It costs about 50 dollars to join, but the benefits are real nice. Free haircuts, quarter draft nights, lunch buffets, etc. I was wondering if anyone else has taken to using their O-Club? Were there any problems from the CAP members using the club. I want to get all my Officers to join (not forcing them to though!) just wondering if I am missing any obvious negative detail.
Second, I recently found out that some of my cadets are going on Base and using Moral services (like the gym and theatre). Although the Base Commander has no problem with this, it seems like these cadets are taking benefits that they are not entitled to, let alone telling anyone about. The group of Cadets are not military dependants and are just CAP Cadets. Should this continue? Hopefully others have had similar experiences!
Why should CAP SM's be allowed these extra goodies, but not Cadet's?
Quite a few bases are closing or consolidating their clubs due to the lack of membership (It used to be unofficially mandatory). They can extend membership to "leading citizens and others who have an affilliation with the base.. So if a bunch of CAP members can join the club so much the better for everybody.
I use to be a membr of the O-club at McChord. It was convient for grabbing dinner before wing meetings. The only caveat was that as a CAP officer, I had to pay the going rate that an AD offier of the same rank had to pay for membership.
Quote from: JThemann on April 24, 2009, 01:38:41 PMWhy should CAP SM's be allowed these extra goodies, but not cadets?
I wouldn't have a problem with cadinks (under parental or squadron supervision) using MWR facilities like the gym and rec center on base. On the other hand I'd leave club membership open only to senior members. So long as the privilege is not abused and regularly renewed by the base commander/force support squadron commander, then I could see this as a membership incentive. Unfortunately it'll take some ya-hoo in a CAP uniform to get blottoed at the club bar and get popped for a DUI or other alcohol-related incident and that privilege will be taken away.
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on April 24, 2009, 03:15:06 PM
Quote from: JThemann on April 24, 2009, 01:38:41 PMWhy should CAP SM's be allowed these extra goodies, but not cadets?
I wouldn't have a problem with cadinks (under parental or squadron supervision) using MWR facilities like the gym and rec center on base. On the other hand I'd leave club membership open only to senior members. So long as the privilege is not abused and regularly renewed by the base commander/force support squadron commander, then I could see this as a membership incentive. Unfortunately it'll take some ya-hoo in a CAP uniform to get blottoed at the club bar and get popped for a DUI or other alcohol-related incident and that privilege will be taken away.
Keep the cadets under strict supervision and out of the clubs.