Does anyone have/use a chart at their meetings so each cadet can see where they stand in relation to others? Since online testing, getting these cadets to test is like pulling teeth. Maybe if they see others, who are newer, passing them, they'll be more apt to get on it? We DO NOT have Internet at our meeting site so hauling my family's laptops is not an option...
Quote from: RJJFM@aol.com on August 22, 2011, 01:19:30 AM
Does anyone have/use a chart at their meetings so each cadet can see where they stand in relation to others? Since online testing, getting these cadets to test is like pulling teeth. Maybe if they see others, who are newer, passing them, they'll be more apt to get on it? We DO NOT have Internet at our meeting site so hauling my family's laptops is not an option...
Used to be a nice one available on the CAP website.
Then again, why bother? If they don't care when the testing is literally open book, and available 24/7, what makes you think a chart will help? They will eventually be in formation, reporting to the cadets who joined long after them. But chances are, they are dead weight and won't renew.
Well, because my husband is the new commander and after a bit of a shake up at our squadron, we're trying to get things right. Our SQ was only about 5-8 Cadets at any one time for almost 5 years, two of which were mine! So, we've moved location and quadrupled in size but, the older ones, who keep renewing, have every excuse in the book, computer broke, eservices locked them out, blah blah...now, we've got some young newbies hammering their way through without the maturity to handle the positions they may soon encounter... :/ oh, and my son is the Cadet Commander readying for his Spaatz and my daughter just passed her Mitchell. So, we've got about 12 Airmen, 2 AIC, and 1 SRA....my kids are ready to stroke out lol!! ;D
Quote from: RJJFM@aol.com on August 22, 2011, 01:37:26 AM
Well, because my husband is the new commander and after a bit of a shake up at our squadron, we're trying to get things right. Our SQ was only about 5-8 Cadets at any one time for almost 5 years, two of which were mine! So, we've moved location and quadrupled in size but, the older ones, who keep renewing, have every excuse in the book, computer broke, eservices locked them out, blah blah...now, we've got some young newbies hammering their way through without the maturity to handle the positions they may soon encounter... :/ oh, and my son is the Cadet Commander readying for his Spaatz and my daughter just passed her Mitchell. So, we've got about 12 Airmen, 2 AIC, and 1 SRA....my kids are ready to stroke out lol!! ;D
A few things.
Excuses are excuses. Let them fall behind. Tell them that if they do not pass two achievements per year, they can and will be 2B'd out of the program.
The new cadets should NOT be put in any positions they aren't ready for. That means no C/CC at C/SrA when your kids leave. That means no C/Amn first sergeant.
Your C/LtCol and C/2d Lt should not only be guiding and training these cadets, they should also be readying them for their eventual departure. It is THEIR job, especially as C/Officers to be teaching these airmen on everything CAP, including instilling the expectation of self testing online as needed. I also believe there IS a paper alternative, for those lacking a connection online, which should eliminate all technology issues right away for those who have them. By the way, if they are updating their facebook page, but can't figure out e-Services, maybe it's time to have a chat with them about priorities and goals.
Well, like when I said "new commander" I mean like just a month and in that time we've moved to a better location & quadrupled+ in size. My two are trying their hardest to train and figure out who can handle what but, there are only 5 original cadets, two are mine (who have done ENC, CLS, Hawk, Staffed ENC, etc.), two are still within their first year and just figured out testing, and the last one thinks he's going to blow in every 6 weeks and think he's promoting. The other 14 are truly members less than 60 days. :-\ The most immature little guy, loveable as he is, is the one hammering through testing at every opportunity, attending every meeting/function we've thrown at him including 101 card! It's just frustrating.
Quote from: RJJFM@aol.com on August 22, 2011, 02:01:11 AM
Well, like when I said "new commander" I mean like just a month and in that time we've moved to a better location & quadrupled+ in size. My two are trying their hardest to train and figure out who can handle what but, there are only 5 original cadets, two are mine (who have done ENC, CLS, Hawk, Staffed ENC, etc.), two are still within their first year and just figured out testing, and the last one thinks he's going to blow in every 6 weeks and think he's promoting. The other 14 are truly members less than 60 days. :-\ The most immature little guy, loveable as he is, is the one hammering through testing at every opportunity, attending every meeting/function we've thrown at him including 101 card! It's just frustrating.
That immature little guy, might turn out to be the next Spaatz cadet. Or he may be gone when other interests become more...interesting.
It shouldn't take them a year to figure out testing. Someone should make a step by step guide on how to get there. Use paper tests if needed.
Dump that last cadet. If a cadet misses 3 meetings in a row without any sort of reasonable excuse, 2B them.
The new guys must have come from a great recruiting drive. That's great! Now have those experienced cadets put them through great start or whatever else they choose. There are basics that cadets need to cover. Some of it is administrative, just like the SM side of the house. On the cadet side, it means teaching them drill and customs and courtesies. Getting them to wear their uniforms properly. Doing PT, AE, Character Development, etc etc etc. Your experienced cadets have been through this, they should know what to do, SM command experience notwithstanding.
The "immature" guy is a GREAT kid...when I say immature, I mean in a naive sort of way....not a bad way...just very protected, only child, private school--just not very streetsmart. He lives/eats/breathes CAP! I'm sure he will be a Spaatz!
The goofs kept trying to test on their phones, which would mess up, and end up getting themselves locked out. At one point they were locked out almost 3 months before they explained things to my son, who had been asking if they needed help with anything. He then went to the interim commander and asked him to unlock them! Now, I'm testing officer and told them to get their butts to a desk/laptop to test and now they're on it.
Two moms of original cadets tried to tag team my husband telling him how it was going to be and that as paying CAP ID holders, they have a right to Oflights, service projects, etc. Uh, yeah...NO. So, they're in a snit...and they can just stay in it all by themselves.
The last one's mom had the same kind of issues but, he's going to be given a chance under the "enforced" rules because he started participating again.
No recruiting drive, just a move from a rural location to one more accessible to cadets and seniors!! We personally griped about moving for over two years. In two months, we've added 12 cadets, 7 are working on paperwork or haven't hit the system yet, and 4 seniors!
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 22, 2011, 01:46:32 AM
Tell them that if they do not pass two achievements per year, they can and will be 2B'd out of the program.
Unfortunately that was taken out of the new 52-16.
Yes, I knew that part, it says "adequately promote" or something like that, now doesn't it?
Quote from: HGjunkie on August 22, 2011, 02:44:12 AM
Quote from: usafaux2004 on August 22, 2011, 01:46:32 AM
Tell them that if they do not pass two achievements per year, they can and will be 2B'd out of the program.
Unfortunately that was taken out of the new 52-16.
Still have this:
Quote4-4. Attendance and Retention.
a. Expectations of Cadets. Cadets are required to participate actively in their local unit if they are to progress in the Cadet Program. Excessive, unexcused absences may be cause for termination from CAP (see CAPR 35-3, Membership Termination). Any school-related activity is considered an excused absence. Cadets are responsible for informing their leaders in advance if they expect to be absent. School-related absences do not excuse cadets from promotion requirements.
And CAPR35-3
Quoteb. Failure to progress satisfactorily in the CAP cadet program.
c. Lack of interest demonstrated by failure to attend three
successive regular meetings without an acceptable excuse.
Very good. Thanks. Was just reading that.
There is a cadet progression report that can be printed in the "Reports" section of the cadet testing module, online. I'm pretty sure it's called "Cadet Progression Report" or something along those lines. It'll print a chart with "X"s for all the cadets in the unit that shows that they need to do to finish their achievements.
There are definitly paper test.. Maybe saying every X meetings everyone needs to take a test?
A squadron that was helping out at an airshow said they were required to be airman before they could wear their uniforms... Might try something like that. Make it so they have to progress, or they don't get to parade around in the uniform.
My squadron has sorta the same problem, except everyone just fails their tests...?
Idk how you could fail a test 8-10 times, even if you didn't study...
I'm my squadron's "naive cadet"... :p
Quote from: RJJFM@aol.com on August 22, 2011, 01:37:26 AM
we've got some young newbies hammering their way through without the maturity to handle the positions they may soon encounter... :/ oh, and my son is the Cadet Commander readying for his Spaatz and my daughter just passed her Mitchell. So, we've got about 12 Airmen, 2 AIC, and 1 SRA....
One of the neat things about the self-paced structure of the cadet progression system is that it requires cadets to learn while to take initiative while accepting responsibility for their own achievement. Sometimes, 12-year-olds get this before 17-year-olds do. RJJFM, it sounds like this might be something your squadron is experiencing right now.
It's good that you recognize that some of the younger cadets might not be ready to step up to the plate of increased responsibility for others. With the self-paced progression plan, once they've proven that they can take responsibility for themselves by promoting, we can (theoretically) trust them to take responsibility for other people. It's difficult when they're still developing social skills.
But then again, isn't that part of what adolescence is about? :)
Right now, you have two great resources to help these younger cadets develop their skills so they will be ready for increased responsibility: a C/Lt Col and a C/2d Lt. With the size of your squadron, it's really more like a flight, anyway. Based on what you've described, I think there are two possible options for a solid Cadet Staff structure:
- C/Lt Col = Cadet Commander, C/2d Lt = Flight Commander, C/SrA = Flight Sergeant; or
- C/Lt Col = Adviser, C/2d Lt = Cadet Commander, C/SrA = Flight Commander.
Either of these options would work, depending on how long the C/Lt Col has been C/CC previously, and whether or not he has already passed in on to the C/2d Lt. Ideally, the C/Lt Col would still be the C/CC, but if he's moved on and the C/2d Lt has already been serving as the C/CC, it would be counterproductive to effectively demote her. In either situation, regardless of her duty title, she would still be acting as a Flight Commander anyway.
Once you have those key positions filled, have the Cadet Commander, Flight Commander, and Flight Sergeant get together and evaluate the rest of the cadets based on proven leadership potential. Assign those cadets to be Element Leaders. Ideally, the two C/A1C will be selected for this position. (Sidenote: you might even consider having the C/SrA start out as the First Element Leader until he/she earns the Wright Brothers Award. This would help you maintain a grade-appropriate Cadet Staff structure while providing incentive for the cadet to promote. However, as mentioned before with the C/2d Lt, it would be difficult to do this if the cadet is already the Flt Sgt.)
Here's the theory behind how this system works. It provides for:
- Growth. By giving the newer cadets increased responsibility incrementally (baby steps), you allow them time to literally grow into the position. If they just sit around until they're somehow magically "ready" to step up and serve as C/CC, they aren't gaining hands-on experience.
- Mentorship. Ideally, this will come primarily from the C/Lt Col and C/2d Lt. They should begin familiarizing themselves with the content of the Learn to Lead curriculum, even though they won't be tested on it for their promotions. That way, they can talk the Flt Sgt and Element Leaders through the stuff from the book while mentoring them, which will help them see what the stuff from the book looks like in real life.
- Incentive. If you set the precedent that you need to promote in order to gain increased responsibility in the unit--you have to be a Cadet Officer to be C/CC, a C/SSgt to be Flt Sgt, and (preferably, although it might not be possible) a C/A1C to be Element Leader, this will serve as incentive for some of the cadets to promote. It won't work for all of them, but it will certainly work for some.
Obviously, this won't work perfectly. But hopefully it will help alleviate some of the problems you've been having both with a lack of progression, and a lack of experience on the part of the cadets who are progressing.
It's difficult to sit back and watch cadets fumble around and mess up, but this is one of the best ways to learn. The caveat there is that they need strong mentors to help ensure that they're learning the right lessons from their mistakes.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on August 22, 2011, 06:24:50 AM
There are definitly paper test.. Maybe saying every X meetings everyone needs to take a test?
A squadron that was helping out at an airshow said they were required to be airman before they could wear their uniforms... Might try something like that. Make it so they have to progress, or they don't get to parade around in the uniform.
My squadron has sorta the same problem, except everyone just fails their tests...?
Idk how you could fail a test 8-10 times, even if you didn't study...
I'm my squadron's "naive cadet"... :p
Under the regulations, you must have a complete uniform
before you can be promoted to C/Airman:
5-2. Cadet Promotions.
a. Eligibility. To become eligible for advancement in the Cadet Program, cadets typically must complete one task in each program element. (This principle sometimes varies; see paragraphs 5-9 through 5-12 and CAPVA 52-100.) The unit commander is the approving authority for all achievements and awards. To be eligible for a promotion, the cadet must:
(1) Be a current cadet member of CAP.
(2) Possess a CAP uniform and wear it properly.
(3) Be capable of reciting the Cadet Oath from memory (see paragraph 1-3).
You wear your uniform properly as part of showing you are ready to be promoted.
Quote from: wacapgh on August 22, 2011, 06:25:44 PM
Under the regulations, you must have a complete uniform before you can be promoted to C/Airman:
I think Extremeprejudice meant that the C/AB's were given uniforms, and taught how to wear them, but didn't wear them until after they got their Curry.
Quote from: titanII on August 22, 2011, 07:44:11 PM
Quote from: wacapgh on August 22, 2011, 06:25:44 PM
Under the regulations, you must have a complete uniform before you can be promoted to C/Airman:
I think Extremeprejudice meant that the C/AB's were given uniforms, and taught how to wear them, but didn't wear them until after they got their Curry.
Which would still violate the regulation. Your uniform isn't complete if it's not on you.