http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13449.0
Al had asked me late last year to help with an insignia for the National PAO team. He wanted something with a lineage to the USAF PA insignia but
that recognized CAP's three missions, etc. We went back and forth a bit on ideas, and the last time I heard from him was Feb 4th, when he responded he
was looking forward to seeing drafts. I sent him something on the 5th, but never heard back from him since. That was why I was trying to get in contact with
him through CT contacts a month or so ago.
These are the four drafts I had sent him, based on his ideas, but with no input after the initial conversations, so I have no idea if any of these would have been acceptable. Perhaps if someone from NHQ sees them they'll want to re-engage on the idea, maybe in his memory.
My apologies if this appears narcissistic, but I thought you guys would be interested in something Al had been working on in the background.
(http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/505/afg090401006.jpg)
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5580/natpaobase1.jpg)
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6430/natpaobase2.jpg)
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3899/natpaobase4.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/514/natpaobase5.jpg)
The one with the red prop has all the elements of the Air Force version yet it is distinctively CAP. Either way I feel sorry that Maj Pabon won't be able to see the final version. Blues Skies for Al Pabon.
I had been discussing my public affairs course with him, which I originally developed a few years ago, is now mostly on paper due to a data loss, and I wanted to start moving back into an electronic format and into something actionable.
We were also working on revisions and additions to his public affairs officer materials.
He had stuff going on and was rather wrapped up in the ACA stuff since it was to be his summer job from June until another month from now. Communication got spotty with me also and I reached him where I could, when I could. He did seem still interested in all of this but I think he just had a lot on his plate for a while.
Colonel:
Be assured that Al always had Civil Air Patrol in his heart. He was having a great time here with the U.S. Army Cadet Corps (USAC), but also looked forward to returning to the blue side, which I certainly supported.
He was a great patriot, a fine man and a true professional. We all miss him.
Very respectfully,
JOSEPH M. LAND, SR.
COL, GS, USAC
Chief of Staff
Headquarters, U.S. Army Cadet Corps
"ADVENTURE BEGINS HERE!"
Quote from: vento on July 23, 2011, 04:49:47 AM
The one with the red prop has all the elements of the Air Force version yet it is distinctively CAP. Either way I feel sorry that Maj Pabon won't be able to see the final version. Blues Skies for Al Pabon.
Agree, that one is the best. You're patch designing skills are really improving, Bob. Nice job on those.
Of the bunch, I prefer the last one, with the three arrows coming from the bottom right. But I challenge you to think past aping the Air Force News Agency's insigne for this. I'm not saying any of what I'm about to say in order to urinate in your corn flakes, but rather to help.
Several thoughts, and again, it's meant as professional constructive criticism -- and there are others who may glean some benefit here, as well:
-- Too many CAP unit and activity insignia use the propeller and triangle. (How many Air Force emblems use the thunderbolts, wings and wreath?) Within the CAP context, the insignia will be understood; this is something folks who put pen to paper to draw an emblem in CAP can't seem to get their heads around for some reason. All that said, the overlap of the prop on three arrows on the one idea is difficult to read (it looks like a fuzzy triangle, and the arrow shape gets lost in the greater shape, which the propeller unifies).
Or you could just cop out and use Pluto (the Disney dog)....
-- The quill can be cliche. Much of our communication has evolved past the ink well; we're now dealing with electrons in every way -- digital cameras, computers, the Internet, whether our product is print or web. I would dare you to think more of thunderbolts, or some other symbolism that expresses reach, power and direction. The red bolts in the old SAC shield spoke to reach; the curve connoted a global reach... and that emblem was too good not to use again (USSTRATCOM uses the knight's hand and bolts now). The four-point arrow in the AFPAA emblem speak to radiating information in every direction, internal as well as external, laterally as well as up and down. Will that work for CAP? Ah, who knows.
-- Looks like a gear, not a heraldic cloud. I think you might want to flatted it out and stick to five humps (like the Air Force shield), lest it gets confusing for some -- who might infer a mechanical component somehow! I'm reminded, as far as the use of the clouds, of the old CAP buttons we used to have to replace our Air Force buttons with on the old service coats.
-- Remember to be careful when you put white and gray together (not that you're having a problem with it, because it's not evident here). CAP, after rolling out its seal, had to outline the 13 stars in reflex blue to blazon the colors correctly (you can't put two shades of the same color together -- and white and gray/silver are the same color, heraldically).
OK, gotta end this e-mail. Time to leave work. If I can help, please let me know; I'm more than happy to put up or shut up.
Why in the world would a small piece of national staff that isn't an actual unit need such an emblem?
Probabnly for the same reason the NEC and the National Board have their own insignia. But how many people are on the National PAO team? The cost of making the badges for 5-10 members of the team would be outragious. I had a Masters rating in PAO, that should be enough of a badge for the National PAO team.
Quote from: BillB on July 24, 2011, 01:12:11 PM
Probabnly for the same reason the NEC and the National Board have their own insignia.
Neither of them would need one either.
Now, I could go along with a single insignia for all CAP members assigned to national staff (didn't they at one time have rockers?).
Yes, Natiuonal Staff did have a rocker that read "National", in fact I saw one about 6 months ago.
Quote from: BillB on July 24, 2011, 01:12:11 PM
Probabnly for the same reason the NEC and the National Board have their own insignia. But how many people are on the National PAO team? The cost of making the badges for 5-10 members of the team would be outragious. I had a Masters rating in PAO, that should be enough of a badge for the National PAO team.
I don't know where Al wanted them used, probably to be worn as unit-type insignia on field uniforms and flight suits (assuming proper approval).
But it didn't have to be physically produced to be used on websites and letterhead, etc., which would have cost zero.
Quote from: BillB on July 24, 2011, 02:30:29 PM
Yes, Natiuonal Staff did have a rocker that read "National", in fact I saw one about 6 months ago.
Yes, the rockers still exist but are only worn by those whose primary assignment is to an NHQ squadron I believe. If someone is actually assigned to another echelon but hold a duty position at NHQ they do not wear the rocker IIRC.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 24, 2011, 08:05:11 PM
Quote from: BillB on July 24, 2011, 02:30:29 PM
Yes, Natiuonal Staff did have a rocker that read "National", in fact I saw one about 6 months ago.
Yes, the rockers still exist but are only worn by those whose primary assignment is to an NHQ squadron I believe. If someone is actually assigned to another echelon but hold a duty position at NHQ they do not wear the rocker IIRC.
That was how it was supposed to work, I've seen it on Maj. Gen. Courters BDU's in relatively recent photos (I think at HMRS).
We had "issues" with this locally, with a few members who served a region post for 15 minutes or something and refused
to remove them (even when one was appointed as a Group CC). "You're supposed to wear the highest level you serve at."
As if the "wing" patch was somehow a decoration for performance. The removal of all CAP patches from blues helped that situation.
Of course this gent was also wearing a subdued GT badge in 2006, so there you go...