I used to have a CAP photo of an airborne photographer shooting a camera out a camera port in the back seat of a cessna,
i can't find it anywhere, including online anymore...
anyone know what i'm talking about and where i can find ?
annnnd then i found it
this is the one i had in mind
(http://www.maxwell.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/web/web_030514-F-0000C-001.jpg)
^ He's a black sheep because he wears an unauthorized patch on his bag.
Quote from: MIKE on July 19, 2011, 01:46:02 AM
^ He's a black sheep because he wears an unauthorized patch on his bag.
pffffff ;D ;D
I was gonna say that he's too good-lookin to be in CAP >:D
And he's not shooting out of a camera port.
...And it looks like he's using your average consumer digital camera/smart phone
yah i remembered the camera port wrong...
and the photo is pretty old, i think, so yeah.
I don't understand how an organization with CAPs budget and mission does not purchase high quality imaging equiptment for each aircraft.
In a perfect world, the cameras would be hard mounted to the airplanes but I'd even settle for just assigning good camera's to each aircraft.
Its not easy fulfilling that photo recon role were supposed to be doing using some of the personal camera's Ive seen at mission base.
Quote from: jpizzo127 on July 21, 2011, 03:50:10 PM
I don't understand how an organization with CAPs budget and mission does not purchase high quality imaging equiptment for each aircraft.
In a perfect world, the cameras would be hard mounted to the airplanes but I'd even settle for just assigning good camera's to each aircraft.
Its not easy fulfilling that photo recon role were supposed to be doing using some of the personal camera's Ive seen at mission base.
It's funny that my group commander has a $400 Sony camera that is better than the one that is in the GIIEP kit. It has built in GPS unlike the issued camera. I would take his on a photo mission before I would take the issued camera.
Quote from: jpizzo127 on July 21, 2011, 03:50:10 PMIts not easy fulfilling that photo recon role were supposed to be doing using some of the personal camera's Ive seen at mission base.
I agree that the Barbie cameras we see are pathetic, made worse still by people who can't even figure out how to use
those, but...
Define "high quality". 25+ Mega Pixel SLR with interchangeable lenses? That's what a lot of people would want us to use, and those are completely unnecessary for the types of photos we are tasked with taking, and dem ain't cheap. Not to mention that digital SLR's kind of defeat the purpose of a digital camera to start with (IMHO). Nothing is more humorous than seeing a guy carrying around $5k of camera. that's as big as the one I used on my high school paper, who can't take a better photo than my Android phone or tablet.
A mid-range point and shoot with a high-end optical lens (10x+), is all we need. Remember, we're not trying to rival Ansel Adams with mixed depth focus, and bold HDR color. We need clear, properly framed and annotated photos that provide information on a pretty large scale (usually a building-sized object or larger), from about 1000 feet.
My first digital camera was a Sony Mavica FD75 (.3Mp, 10x optical)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31tKmG8RJ6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
It had a relatively low pixel depth, but with a 10x optical zoom could resolve people in cars from 1000 feet, and the floppy disk insured we could always pull the photos at mission base. My Group purchased the same camera for mission use around the same time. The biggest issue it had was resolving
micro-reflections at things like a car show where a bright pinpoint of light was larger than the pixel, resulting in a blur. The white balance wasn't that great, either, but we're talking about early-gen digital cameras here.
Shortly after that I got a Casio QV-3000Ex (3Mp, 6x Optical) and the photos I took in the early part of the last decade are as good or better than most of what I see today. That was a $1000 camera when I bought it and featured a 340MB "Microdrive" (amazing at the time). It was a Casio body but had Canon lenses. It used standard AA batteries, which it ate fast, but at least they were plentiful in mission bases.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XJ0NRA7VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
From there I moved to a Canon Powershot S45 (4Mp, 3x optical).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MSBD1FWKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Nice photos, but not too useful from the air. I made a dual camera rig and used to shoot video with it while shooting stills on the one below, which provided some nice results.
The last major investment I made in a camera was a Nikon Coolpix 5700 (5Mp, 8x optical), which I still use today (though not very often).
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KE43KVDDL._AA300_.jpg)
It takes amazing photos, the 8x gets me where I need to be, and since it isn't an SLR, it doesn't weigh very much. This was the same camera
used in the original SDIS setups, and while it suffered from what is referred to as a "chatty lens", is more than adequate for the work we're tasked to do.
The sad reality is that there are cameras on the market today with twice the specs at 2/3rd's the price, but when you move too far up from
prosumer, the complexity means your people will wind up with far too many photos of their left eye or the curve of the earth.
Higher pixel depths means larger photos, which can potentially provide more information, but also can be difficult to manage and send (especially in a world where many agencies and even cap.gov emails have attachment restrictions).
For the majority of our missions, in proficient hands, a $200 point and shoot grabbed on the way to the mission base will more than fill the need, anything else is gravy, but not necessary. We need better training on how to take a photo and what the customer needs, with more mission proficiency and muscle memory, not necessarily better cameras.
Taking a clear photo on a sunny day with the sun to you back is more than a lot of people can handle. Doing the same from a moving car is even harder
(or of a moving object). Taking a photo from an airplane, with mission pressure and other distractions, by people who fly twice a year is where the real challenge comes in.
And that doesn't even account for the Mission Pilot and Observers who forget why they are there and don't properly brief or sometimes even forget to
take their Scanners on photo missions.
We need better training on how to take a photo and what the customer needs, with more mission proficiency and muscle memory, not necessarily better cameras.
AMEN!
There it is. Not having any knowlege about camera's that you do, I would propose we need a standard type of camera in all the planes, and then train our people to use those camera's to the max ability to satisfy the request of our customers.
There was a famous photographer who was complimented on his photos, being told that he must have a great camera. His response – does an author need a great typewriter?
Apparently, knowing how to properly use the tools you have is more important that the tool itself.
^ Where do I sign.
I think the imaging specialty they are using at NESA goes a long way towards that, but it has not been implemented nationwide AFAIK, and
like all things CAP is far from standard (even in my wing using NESA instructors).
I teach a "Photography for PAOs" class twice a year. Here is my presentation (warning, large file):
http://kalemis.com/photo.zip
I am not sure how instructful it is without my commentary, but hopefully it will help. I was asked to videotape my class for wider use, but I respectfully declined since I would have to curtail my colorful commentary and where would the fun be in that?!?!
Here are some points from my presentation:
All photographers who create effective photos have mastered their equipment.
Taking photos is like playing an instrument, if you haven't practiced for a while, it takes time to get back in the groove.
Understanding photographic technique is necessary for effective composition.
- You don't take a photograph, you make it.
- Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art.
- Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships.
- The negative is comparable to the composer's score and the print to its performance. Each performance differs in subtle ways.
- I am sure the next step will be the electronic image, and I hope I shall live to see it. I trust that the creative eye will continue to function, whatever technological innovations may develop.
- A good photograph is knowing where to stand.
Bonus points if you know who said the bullet points, above (with no cheating).
Ugh, please don't talk about additional training or proficiency training. I'm all for that, but there are so many people out there that punch their ticket and then don't do anything until the next REDCAP or whenever it's time to renew. I don't know about the aircrew side but on the ground side it's like pulling teeth to get a GTL or three (which is part of why I became one).
This is the rig I used on a number of successful missions, both real and training.
(Cleaning the garage and repacking gear and came across it).
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1686/dualcamera.jpg)
It allowed me to shoot video and stills at the same time. On at least one occasion I used a standard video camera, which provided
much better image clarity but was a pain to capture electronically. The Canon was fairly low-res video, but easy to share the content.
The intention of the video was as a "make good" in case the user missed something in one of the stills (such as when doing a box run),
the detail might be on the video.
The fair weight of the thing also generally helped steady the user's hand.
Here's the slide from the original 2004 SDIS briefing (note the incorrectly scaled graphic) which shows the initial SDIS components.
(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/6582/sdisslide13.jpg)
44 slides to take a photo and email it, like this was magic. I recall seeing the "operator's instructions" for the camera
itself at Wing HQ - 6 pages, mostly devoted to how to connect USB and use Outlook. ((*sigh*)) I just pulled the chip
from the camera and put in in my PC, but who am I?
Further down there is mention of IR imaging, which must have purported other equipment because that is certainly not a capability
of the 5700.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 24, 2011, 08:59:14 PM
...
44 slides to take a photo and email it, like this was magic. I recall seeing the "operator's instructions" for the camera
itself at Wing HQ - 6 pages, mostly devoted to how to connect USB and use Outlook. ((*sigh*)) I just pulled the chip
from the camera and put in in my PC, but who am I?
...
I work in IT for a K-12 school down in these parts. Do you know what I spend most of my support calls doing? Helping people with thumb drives, and Outlook... Also resetting the power on ActivBoards and fixing projectors when the teachers insist that their ActivBoard or document camera is broken.
Moral of the story - the more things change, the more they stay the same ;).
I got a Mavica FD70, then FD91, and CD1000 before ending up with the Nikon 5700 as well, and still have that. It's been through hell, and back. Still works great. The CCD imager died in it, way out of warranty, but Nikon fixed it anyway as it was an industry wide problem with Sony supplying faulty imagers to nearly everyone.
Not sure if that service extension is still available, but if you have a 5700 thats gone dark, you may still be able to get it fixed.
Quote from: davidsinn on July 21, 2011, 04:02:09 PM
It's funny that my group commander has a $400 Sony camera that is better than the one that is in the GIIEP kit. It has built in GPS unlike the issued camera. I would take his on a photo mission before I would take the issued camera.
Interesting comment as the Ricoh in the GIIEP kit has a built in GPS and electronic compass.
Quote from: Larry Mangum on August 09, 2011, 05:50:25 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on July 21, 2011, 04:02:09 PM
It's funny that my group commander has a $400 Sony camera that is better than the one that is in the GIIEP kit. It has built in GPS unlike the issued camera. I would take his on a photo mission before I would take the issued camera.
Interesting comment as the Ricoh in the GIIEP kit has a built in GPS and electronic compass.
Really? That interesting...I only had the camera in my hand long enough to shoot a few pictures. For all I know it could have been the SDIS camera.