http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Training_turns_into_search_mission_to_locate_crashed_helicopter_125303768.html (http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Training_turns_into_search_mission_to_locate_crashed_helicopter_125303768.html)
Great Job on the find and great media coverage too. Can you tell us how you handled switching from a training sortie to a real sortie? Was the airplane in the air already or did they launch a sortie specifically on the M misson?
Nice job guys! Awesome find and awesome article.
PAWG had two different real life missions (non-distress ELTs) during our GTE this year. It's a matter of flipping over paperwork, but nothing else really changes depending on where your assets are. Flexibility is key to mission management.
We've had that happen several times as well. Depending on the situation, you check out a small subset of the eval team and resources to start working the actual, and continue the Eval as per usual.
Unless you have explicit permission to stop the exercise, you can't just ignore the eval for the actual, which I know from personal experience has caused some wings "issues".
When it's happened during a SAREX for us, that sortie, just gets a mission # change and a different 108. A few times, the AF has said to just put the whole day onto the real mission # when it's happened early in the morning, and we used most of the resources for it anyway.
But this isn't a rare occurrence in southern California.
Great coverage - especially compared to some TV news DISASTERS I've seen on CAP. :clap:
The aircraft was already airborne. The aircrew had to guide local FD to the crash site after they missed a turnoff. From what I was told, the aircrew did a great job. :clap:
It would be very interesting to know what the notification chain was to get CAP involved. It looks like Cincinnatti should have been on the phone with AFRCC pretty quick but we don't know what the communications was like between ATC and the helicopter. :( I'm slightly amazed there was a working ELT for once.
In any case, great job Kentucky! :clap:
Cheers,
Our aircraft was already in the air, and found the wreckage in around 10 minutes. We were not called by AFRCC until approximately 5 hours after the incident. We gave the real mission a dedicated MRO and AOBD. Everyone else split their attention as needed, with the obvious priority on the real mission. Globalstar was not having a good day, so we used text messaging for transmitting sensitive data. A ground team was dispatched, but was recalled en route because we successfully directed law enforcement and fire officials to the scene with the plane. We had another plane ready to launch to relieve the first, but it was not needed.
Quote from: Captain Morgan on July 16, 2011, 05:16:24 PM
Our aircraft was already in the air, and found the wreckage in around 10 minutes. We were not called by AFRCC until approximately 5 hours after the incident. We gave the real mission a dedicated MRO and AOBD. Everyone else split their attention as needed, with the obvious priority on the real mission. Globalstar was not having a good day, so we used text messaging for transmitting sensitive data. A ground team was dispatched, but was recalled en route because we successfully directed law enforcement and fire officials to the scene with the plane. We had another plane ready to launch to relieve the first, but it was not needed.
I think we are going to find that having laptops with capabilities to interface/access HF/ALE, VHF/P25 Digital/NFM, and typical wireless carriers to send text message traffic is going to be the way to go in the future for us. (This is especially true for fixed/mobile/portable HF/ALE operation with low link quality analysis %).
We also had an incident involving a report of a potential aircraft/hang glider crash during an exercise this year. I was monitoring the local control tower radio frequency and they were trying to contract our aircraft that had just left their airspace, so I contacted our aircraft via the CAP FM radio and they returned to the tower frequency and the tower passed the message about the potential crash. The CAP aircraft immediately went over to that area, and I called the exercise IC to advise him what was happening. Fortunately their was no crash found. Of course mission base was quite excited :angel:
I'm also a very strong advocate of requiring ANYTIME a CAP aircraft is in the air, even for member paid flight proficiency training that there be a requirement to monitor the CAP radio for emergency traffic. This has met with mixed results in my wing and my region. :(
RM
Wouldn't it make more sense to monitor 121.5 instead of the CAP radio? It's not the main ELT freq anymore but it is the distress freq.
Quote from: ol'fido on July 17, 2011, 01:46:43 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense to monitor 121.5 instead of the CAP radio? It's not the main ELT freq anymore but it is the distress freq.
Sure but then RM wouldn't get to save the day by raising the CAP A/C on CAP radio. ::)
Quote from: ol'fido on July 17, 2011, 01:46:43 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense to monitor 121.5 instead of the CAP radio? It's not the main ELT freq anymore but it is the distress freq.
Because if mission base, an IC, or some other CAP member needs to call a CAP aircraft, they'll probably have a CAP radio on them, not an aviation radio.
Also, doesn't transmitting on aviation frequencies from the group require some sort of license?
How about monitoring 121.5 on the number two comm and also monitor the CAP radio? Yeah, yeah, I know: you might need the #2 comm for something else. Note that I said monitor. There are still hundreds of thousands of 121.5 ELTs in GA aircraft in the US.
I monitor 121.5 all the time on my personal airplane, unless I need it for something else.
Quote from: bosshawk on July 17, 2011, 03:43:23 AM
How about monitoring 121.5 on the number two comm and also monitor the CAP radio? Yeah, yeah, I know: you might need the #2 comm for something else. Note that I said monitor. There are still hundreds of thousands of 121.5 ELTs in GA aircraft in the US.
I monitor 121.5 all the time on my personal airplane, unless I need it for something else.
here is a thought, TURN ON YOUR L-PER or BECKER
Quote from: cap235629 on July 17, 2011, 04:39:00 AM
Quote from: bosshawk on July 17, 2011, 03:43:23 AM
How about monitoring 121.5 on the number two comm and also monitor the CAP radio? Yeah, yeah, I know: you might need the #2 comm for something else. Note that I said monitor. There are still hundreds of thousands of 121.5 ELTs in GA aircraft in the US.
I monitor 121.5 all the time on my personal airplane, unless I need it for something else.
here is a thought, TURN ON YOUR L-PER or BECKER
Not all aircraft have them. Rumor has it that some of the brand new ones are delivered without them installed at all.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 17, 2011, 02:41:39 AM
Quote from: ol'fido on July 17, 2011, 01:46:43 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense to monitor 121.5 instead of the CAP radio? It's not the main ELT freq anymore but it is the distress freq.
Sure but then RM wouldn't get to save the day by raising the CAP A/C on CAP radio. ::)
The point is that hang gliders don't have ELT's and even older aircraft with older ELT's could crash and the ELT might not work. :(
I know when the local military units are flying for proficiency training they always have one radio on their command post/ops frequency so they can be contacted. IF CAP is serious about being "professionals" surely the aircraft would be available for either immediate contact/recall for a qualified crew or at least be able to take a quick look and listen IF the need arose.
Again I'm an advocate of CAP members also monitoring the aero band (as well as other public safety radio systems) with consumer grade radio scanners, because it does give one situational awareness, sometimes hours before call out.
RM
Quote from: davidsinn on July 17, 2011, 06:15:12 AM
Quote from: cap235629 on July 17, 2011, 04:39:00 AM
here is a thought, TURN ON YOUR L-PER or BECKER
Not all aircraft have them. Rumor has it that some of the brand new ones are delivered without them installed at all.
Anyone have the real numbers on this? My understanding is very few of our aircraft don't have DF capability.
I also don't understand why the CAP radio and DF unit aren't part of the checklist every time a CAP aircraft is flown.
All of our aircraft have DF capability. All you need is the aircraft radio, a gps, a sectional, a plotter, and a properly trained mission pilot and mission observer. A wing null is very effective.
All you need to monitor 121.5 is a second aircraft radio.
Fair enough. Anyone know how many of our aircraft don't have a dedicated DF receiver?
Quote from: EMT-83 on July 17, 2011, 02:21:17 PMI also don't understand why the CAP radio and DF unit aren't part of the checklist every time a CAP aircraft is flown.
For starters there are a lot members assigned as Mission Observer who believe they are the co-pilot, so they are spending their spin-up time "assisting the pilot" instead of checking the equipment they actually need for
their assigned duties.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 17, 2011, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on July 17, 2011, 02:21:17 PMI also don't understand why the CAP radio and DF unit aren't part of the checklist every time a CAP aircraft is flown.
For starters there are a lot members assigned as Mission Observer who believe they are the co-pilot, so they are spending their spin-up time "assisting the pilot" instead of checking the equipment they actually need for their assigned duties.
That belief extends to alot of pilots as well.
I've had a SAREX turn into a real REDCAP mission twice. Both times I was on the IC staff. Both times I wound up being the only qualified AirCrewman (along with 2 other Staff members who weren't at the end of their duty day and therefore the only available crew ready to take the REDCAP mission.)
So as a PIO/MIO/LO/MSA. I routinely account for all PIOs, who may be serving on another assignment, but are available to switch into PIO/MIO aircrew/GT duties. This is good for 2 reasons.
1. In case I have to go fly. In case I have to lead or join a Ground Team on any assignment that pops up. I have replacements.
2. In case there is an incident (like a CAP aircraft goes down or CAP ground teams gets lost or hurt) I will have a ready made information staff that I can call into the ICP - to handle press inquiries should the PIO duty load go nuclear. This will happen in the event of a real mission no matter what else is going on including a SAREX. The object here is to keep the ICs head in the Search and Rescue mode and out of answering press questions. Keep the public informed. Perform at the highest mission tempo possible and cover all the bases.
The Air Force likes this accounting at Guided SAREXS AND SAREVALs. The flexibility in the mission staff, the variability in mission requirements, and the quick response have all been praised.
I advise that the sign in crew keep track of SAREX participants mission quals that are tough to fill when in a hurry. I want to know how many GTLs, PIOs, LOs, ABDOs, MROs, Ops, Pilots, MOs, APs, are available at any one time. Even when these members have signed in for another job at a particular SAREX. Additionally, I keep all of my various mission kits handy - MO, GTL, PIO, LO, UDF, kits in my car at all SAREXs. I can transition to another job in about 10 minutes.
Being ready to respond. Being able to reconfigure. The ability to react are part of the duty. Might I suggest applying some of these ideas to your next SAREX. Even play this idea as a table top... what would happen if the IC had a heart attack. What would happen if the Air Branch Director had to move up to cover the IC. What if the SAREX went bad and a plane went down. Practice how you fight. As I said, 2 SAREXs have turned into legitimate missions and more than once I've changed my duties on the fly during my time in CAP.
I had a cadet activity weekend turn into an actual once. They said I was crazy for making mission support part of the plan for the activity. They were wrong. When you've got a lot of people and equipment hogged in one place, you should plan.