This has been part of suggestions in the past for a new corporate uniform.
However, in all seriousness, what are the chances of modification of the aviator grey/white to:
Change the white shirt out for a Van Heusen, light-blue airline type shirt...readily available online in both long and short-sleeve, male and female cut.
(http://www.pilotshop.com/catalog/images/vanheusen/aviatorssblue.jpg)
Allow optional grey BDU trousers.
Allow black civilian pilot's sweater, worn with CSU brushed-silver "Civil Air Patrol" nameplate.
(http://www.pilotshop.com/catalog/images/crewgear/speb.jpg)
(I think the guy in the photo is wearing grey trousers!)
Light blue beret with flight cap insignia (I know some think berets suck, but I'm just throwing it at the wall hoping it will stick, and the USAF Combat Weather types already have dibs on grey, the Army uses black, etc.). Even the Boy Scouts wear berets (red)! And yes, I know it looks like the UN.
(http://image.sportsmansguide.com/dimage/187159_ts.JPG?cell=300,300&cvt=jpeg)
All these are widely available on the open market, are civilian issue, have zero USAF content and are minimum-change.
Or are we so gun-shy of anything but the status quo that only the status quo has a chance?
How about a moratorium on uniform changes while we come up with a comprehensive policy and system?
Snowballs chance in hell. Give it a rest Cyborg, seriously.
Quote from: CyBorg on June 03, 2011, 06:59:16 PM
However, in all seriousness, what are the chances of modification of the aviator grey/white to:
Change the white shirt out for a Van Heusen, light-blue airline type shirt...readily available online in both long and short-sleeve, male and female cut.
My white shirts are Van Heusen, too. The Aviator variant. They come in long and short sleeve versions, and cut for both guys and gals. As for availability, go to the pilot supply shop at your local GA airport, and they frequently have them. They are also available online from the major pilot supply houses. In my limited experience, the white ones are easier to get than the blue ones.
The
only difference in the whole business is color.
Moving right along...
Quote from: MIKE on June 03, 2011, 07:04:49 PM
Snowballs chance in hell. Give it a rest Cyborg, seriously.
Point taken, Mike, but I would like to know why you give it a snowball's chance in hell?
Quote from: CyBorg on June 03, 2011, 08:34:39 PM
Point taken, Mike, but I would like to know why you give it a snowball's chance in hell?
Yeah...really? Because I think it's even less than that
Why the beret? They are hot, tend to look ridiculous unless you spend hours shaping them, are are perhaps the most impractical uniform headwear ever devised.
Quote from: CyBorg on June 03, 2011, 06:59:16 PM
Or are we so gun-shy of anything but the status quo that only the status quo has a chance?
Or maybe there is nothing seriously wrong with the status quo to motivate a change. Changing for the sake of change is a waste of time and money. Frankly, I've enjoyed not having to fart around with constant uniform changes for the last couple years.
I would support an upgrade to ABUs from BDUs, for consistency with the Air Force, but that's about it. The USAF style service and corporate uniforms work fine as is.
no berets!!! their only function besides giving an odd tan line on your forehead is looking good. They are not practical items of headwear, less practical than the flight cap.
Considering the way many seniors currently their uniforms throwing a beret into the mix defies description. Many of those who wear them on a regular basis (Army) can't get it right. Talk about a useless piece of headgear!!
As for the proposed changes being adopted? Zip, zero, not a chance, ain't gonna happen. Leave it alone.
Lets just ditch the weight and grooming requirements and all wear the same thing...
*coughcough* Did somebody say something?
Quote from: titanII on June 04, 2011, 01:17:11 AM
no berets!!! their only function besides giving an odd tan line on your forehead is looking good. They are not practical items of headwear, less practical than the flight cap.
I'll agree on the impractical. In defense of the flight cap, it's pretty low key, and doesn't take up the kind of space that anything else does, and it's not hard to keep it clean if you pay even the smallest amount of attention.
Quote from: PA Guy on June 04, 2011, 01:36:13 AM
Many of those who wear them on a regular basis (Army) can't get it right. Talk about a useless piece of headgear!!
I do it right, because I refuse to wear it jacked up. My issue is that I hate taking the time to do it. It's annoying. You can throw a PC on one handed, and it looks fine. Can't do that with the beanie.
Berets were "cool" when I was in the first few years. Kinda got over it. Then, went Army, and had to actually wear one. The love is gone.
Thank you for all your input, it's what I was asking for.
But for those who say "no chance," I ask "why?"
And for those shooting spitballs at the beret...I only used it because I couldn't find a grey flight cap online, except for old East German and even older USN...sorry if I offended...even though most of our allies have done quite well with them...
(http://www.tricoloresurplus.com/assets/images/United_Kingdom_Army_Air_Corps_Beret__Front_Right_.jpg)
...not to mention I was trying to find something that the USAF didn't use.
Mike - feel free to lock.
Those of us "shooting spitballs at the beret" have experience with it. Due to that experience, we don't care for it. It's an item that is intended for appearance, not for practical use. It may look "cool", but it doesn't keep the sun off, it's hot in the summer, it's not going to keep your head warm in the winter, and it takes some work to be worn properly and kept clean.
Second, the gray/whites are not composed of anything approaching mil spec as far as components go, and there is a lack of standardization as those components. Throwing a beret at that ensemble isn't doing anyone any favors. It's not needed, it doesn't work, and could possibly get us lumped in with all the posers on the internet wearing a beret with everything from Hawaiian shirts to their pajamas.
Third, I've seen a number of people that present the appearance of thinking the following: "The Air Force has to allow us this, because it's nothing like anything of theirs. It's not like anything of theirs, because we say so, so they should let us wear it." The circular reasoning is a fail, and will not endear us to Mother Blue.
We don't need more uniforms right now. For us, it's only gonna work if the new uniform is put out, and a hard phase out date for the old one is enforced.
The CSU, to me, still looks like a case of "better to ask forgiveness than permission," and almost seemed as if there were enough of them out there, it could be justified with "Well, everyone is wearing it, so the Air Force has to allow it." Didn't seem to work. As a caveat, that's my opinion, and may or may not reflect views of the management.
There's a lot of stuff out there that we just don't need. Much of it has the appearance of "Everyone should get a cookie, whether you earned it or not!" Let's eliminate that stuff, get our appearance to something consistant, and then maybe consider awards that reflect true persistence, and not just attendance.
I thought you were serious until I saw the UN beret.
What is wrong with one of these?
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.popeater.com/media/2011/05/princess-beatrice-royal-wedding-hat-ebay-300ss1-051211-1306126974.jpg)
Quote from: JC004 on June 04, 2011, 07:30:53 PM
I thought you were serious until I saw the UN beret.
What is wrong with one of these?
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.popeater.com/media/2011/05/princess-beatrice-royal-wedding-hat-ebay-300ss1-051211-1306126974.jpg)
When did Ted Geisel (Dr Suess) come back from the dead as a hat designer??
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 04, 2011, 06:22:32 PM
Those of us "shooting spitballs at the beret" have experience with it. Due to that experience, we don't care for it. It's an item that is intended for appearance, not for practical use. It may look "cool", but it doesn't keep the sun off, it's hot in the summer, it's not going to keep your head warm in the winter, and it takes some work to be worn properly and kept clean.
It was just a suggestion. It was more of an afterthought when I couldn't find any suitable grey headgear.
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 04, 2011, 06:22:32 PM
Third, I've seen a number of people that present the appearance of thinking the following: "The Air Force has to allow us this, because it's nothing like anything of theirs. It's not like anything of theirs, because we say so, so they should let us wear it." The circular reasoning is a fail, and will not endear us to Mother Blue.
It was just a suggestion...I never said the AF
had to let us wear anything I suggested, but the reason I emphasised that none of it was AF issue is because of the fact that they
do have control over anything regarding wear of
their uniform. I think a big part of the problem
some had with the CSU was that it
did use AF uniform items: rank slides, hard rank and AF trousers.
A big question I have is, and not limited to uniforms, is "what
would endear us to Mother Blue?" Over the past 18 years that I have been in CAP, I have seen the attitude from many individual AF members go from "thanks for what you do" to "bunch of wannabes trolling for salutes" to "who the heck are they?"
I don't believe that improper wear of the AF uniform is endearing to Mother Blue, for good reason. I was not privy (thank God) to the politics behind the way the CSU came out, but I know that a lot of people liked it precisely
because it wasn't the colourless grey and white and didn't look like a Realtor's (no offence to Realtors) blazer.
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 04, 2011, 06:22:32 PM
We don't need more uniforms right now. For us, it's only gonna work if the new uniform is put out, and a hard phase out date for the old one is enforced.
I'm not sure what you mean by the "new" and "old" uniform in this context. If you mean the CSU, even though I have problems with the way that was mishandled, I'm sure not going to disobey orders and wear mine past the phase-out date.
My suggestions were not intended to be "another uniform"...rather, a modification to an
existing uniform. Swap
one item (white shirt for blue). Everything else remains as is, except to allow a pullover sweater.
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 04, 2011, 06:22:32 PM
The CSU, to me, still looks like a case of "better to ask forgiveness than permission," and almost seemed as if there were enough of them out there, it could be justified with "Well, everyone is wearing it, so the Air Force has to allow it." Didn't seem to work. As a caveat, that's my opinion, and may or may not reflect views of the management.
Again, I don't know, beyond what has been said on CT, about how the CSU was introduced, other than the one who introduced it purportedly showed up at a meeting of AF brass wearing it and (understandably) gobsmacked them with it, which they were (understandably) irritated about. I also don't know exactly
why it's been canned, and probably never will.
Quote from: Hawk200 on June 04, 2011, 06:22:32 PM
There's a lot of stuff out there that we just don't need. Much of it has the appearance of "Everyone should get a cookie, whether you earned it or not!" Let's eliminate that stuff, get our appearance to something consistant, and then maybe consider awards that reflect true persistence, and not just attendance.
I didn't suggest any awards or additional blingage...just a blue shirt and dark blue/black pullover sweater, and the
blue beret.
Quote from: JC004 on June 04, 2011, 07:30:53 PM
I thought you were serious until I saw the UN beret.
What is wrong with one of these?
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.popeater.com/media/2011/05/princess-beatrice-royal-wedding-hat-ebay-300ss1-051211-1306126974.jpg)
Only if you make it corporate grey and put the CAP prop symbol in the center. 8)
I like the idea of the blue shirt. However, we do need to get some red in there somewhere. Since our colors are red, white, & blue. Maybe the rank sleeves could be red, with CAP in white and the rank in the appropriate color.
HOWEVER, I tend to agree with others that there's other problems in CAP that need to be solved first and having everyone (at least adults) going into this type of uniform would be a big expense. Most people don't need any more expenses at this time :(
RM
CAP is already knee-deep with too many variations of uniforms to implement this, regardless of whether it is a good idea.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 06, 2011, 06:05:31 PM
I like the idea of the blue shirt. However, we do need to get some red in there somewhere. Since our colors are red, white, & blue. Maybe the rank sleeves could be red, with CAP in white and the rank in the appropriate color.
RM
What is your thing with red epaulettes?
Were you in during the berry boards era?
Quote from: CyBorg on June 06, 2011, 08:42:07 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 06, 2011, 06:05:31 PM
I like the idea of the blue shirt. However, we do need to get some red in there somewhere. Since our colors are red, white, & blue. Maybe the rank sleeves could be red, with CAP in white and the rank in the appropriate color.
RM
What is your thing with red epaulettes?
He's a troll. Plain and simple. He knows exactly what kind of response he'd get for that crap.
Quote from: davidsinn on June 06, 2011, 09:09:53 PM
Quote from: CyBorg on June 06, 2011, 08:42:07 PM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 06, 2011, 06:05:31 PM
I like the idea of the blue shirt. However, we do need to get some red in there somewhere. Since our colors are red, white, & blue. Maybe the rank sleeves could be red, with CAP in white and the rank in the appropriate color.
RM
What is your thing with red epaulettes?
He's a troll. Plain and simple. He knows exactly what kind of response he'd get for that crap.
VERY Bright Red sleeves, white CAP, and regular rank. Red background with white lettering on name tags. (basically as I've said with the Blue BDU's for everyone also).
Hmm, I don't see our aircraft flying around painted grey. The aircraft are painted in red, white, and blue scheme. Stands to reason that our uniforms need to match the aircraft color. Surely this would indicate VERY clearly in very low light conditions that we are the
CIVIL AIR PATROL Surely everyone is entitled to their opinion. Isn't that what America is about ???
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 07, 2011, 01:56:00 AM
VERY Bright Red sleeves, white CAP, and regular rank. Red background with white lettering on name tags. (basically as I've said with the Blue BDU's for everyone also).
I honestly don't mind the "BBDU with red and white for all" idea. I think it would do a good job of setting us apart while still looking fairly military. But on the other hand, I don't have any major quips about our uniforms as is. I guess like RM said, we're all entitled to our own opinions :P
QuoteYour freedom ends where mine begins.
And everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but everyone else is entitled to ignore said opinions as well.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 07, 2011, 01:56:00 AM
Stands to reason that our uniforms need to match the aircraft color.
Why? Last I checked the AF, USMC and USN flew gray aircraft and the Army flew green. They all wear blue uniforms. Only the Marines have any red. The red, white and blue paint scheme is a recent addition to the fleet. You only mentioned red because you wanted to stir the pot.
Quote
Surely everyone is entitled to their opinion. Isn't that what America is about ???
RM
Yes it is. You have stated your opinion time and time again. I'm entitled to my opinion too: you are a troll.
Members should not match aircraft. It is clearly a safety hazard to match aircraft, just as it is a safety hazard to match trees. Ideally, members should not match anything anywhere and a distinctive color should be made up that has never existed before because it is the CIVIL AIR PATROL.
Or something...
Too much about changing uniforms has it is.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on June 07, 2011, 01:56:00 AM
VERY Bright Red sleeves, white CAP, and regular rank. Red background with white lettering on name tags. (basically as I've said with the Blue BDU's for everyone also).
And once that's done, you can then start arguing that we don't need uniforms, and shouldn't have to bother with that whole Air Force thing. May as well just turn it into that flying club you've been dreaming for.
Why do you even bother staying within an organization that is clearly not arranged the way you want it to be? It doesn't actually provide any benefit to you. Or do you reason that since you're paying dues, you have the right to demand things be done your way?
Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.
Quote from: SarDragon on June 07, 2011, 04:24:08 AM
Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock.
Can't stop the clock... >:D
(http://www.colganmarketing.com/clock1.gif)
Trolls, the lot of ye! :P
Yes, go to red epaulets. And put an S on them for Senior member. Oh wait, the Salvation Army has already done that.
Quote from: BillB on June 07, 2011, 01:00:23 PM
Yes, go to red epaulets. And put an S on them for Senior member. Oh wait, the Salvation Army has already done that.
Non issue. Go for "SM", and change meaning to "Super Member"