Hi, I'm an 18 y/o Cadet Chief Master Sergeant. I just enrolled at my Community College for nursing, which requires me to take 6 classes my first semester. I have a little bit of a problem...
My weekly squadron meetings are on Wednesdays @ 1900-2100. My SOCL 101 classes are on Wednesdays 1700-2030. As you can see, the class and the meeting conflict with one another. This is the last sociology class that is not full, and I need this class for my first semester.
My questions are:
1) Do I have to resign? Or can I take a break by telling my DCC?
2) When they say "school comes first" for cadets, does that apply to college as well?
3) If I have to resign, will I still be allowed to come back as a cadet?
Thank you so much.
I wouldn't resign...If you resign you can might have difficulty returning as a cadet if you return while still 18...you turn 19 and you won't be able to rejoin as a cadet. It's not unusual for a Cadet to become a little more inactive as far as school is concerned. Contact your DCC for advice. Yes..Your school should absolutely come first. Congratulations on choosing Nursing...and good luck
Quote from: Arrow on May 27, 2011, 04:12:00 AM
Hi, I'm an 18 y/o Cadet Chief Master Sergeant. I just enrolled at my Community College for nursing, which requires me to take 6 classes my first semester. I have a little bit of a problem...
My weekly squadron meetings are on Wednesdays @ 1900-2100. My SOCL 101 classes are on Wednesdays 1700-2030. As you can see, the class and the meeting conflict with one another. This is the last sociology class that is not full, and I need this class for my first semester.
My questions are:
1) Do I have to resign?
No.
QuoteOr can I take a break by telling my DCC?
Yes.
Quote2) When they say "school comes first" for cadets, does that apply to college as well?
Grey area. In college, it's your money (or mom & dad's), and it's up to you to derive the value from it.
Quote3) If I have to resign, will I still be allowed to come back as a cadet?
Thank you so much.
No, but see #1.
You do not have to resign, just tell your DCC what's going on and try to make the meetings you can.
DN
Thanks guys. That was a major relief.
Leave of Absence.. for a semester, participate on weekends when you can, keep on the call down, or whatever vehicle your unit may use for disseminating whats going on that week. You can still study the modules, and maybe even make arrangements to take the next test during that period at an alternate time/location and be ready when you can attend more again.
Is there another squadron in your area, or close enough to drive to? If you have a lot of trouble making the meetings your squadron may allow you (as you would also need permission from the other squadron as well) to attend their meetings so you can at least still remain active.
The other options (far more difficult) is to talk with the school admissions office, explain your situation, and see if maybe you can change your schedule a little bit in order to keep that evening free. This is obviously going to depend upon the number of students, if there is another time and/or day the class is offered and so on, but worth a shot.
Getting permission to attend a squadron which meets on a more convenient night is a very good option. I went away to a school far away from home and was allowed to attend a squadron which met on campus. Just needed a little coordination between the squadron commanders. It was no problem for all concerned.
Since you are still local however, I would first ask if there were any accommodations which could be made for the semester. Most squadron commanders will try to make things happen for a hard working cadet who wants to progress up the ladder. In any event enjoy the summer and get the most out of it as possible.
College is far more important then CAP right now. You shouldn't even be asking if "college comes first." An ASN is gonna support you and your family. CAP isn't.
Quote from: JThemann on May 27, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
College is far more important then CAP right now. You shouldn't even be asking if "college comes first." An ASN is gonna support you and your family. CAP isn't.
Haha, true true. I wont disagree with that, but I am finding it amazing, how much I, as a cadet, can get out of the program. The opportunities are endless. College does come first, but if you put into CAP, you will get amazing experiences out of it. If you are dedicated, in just a few short years, you could find yourself on a trip worth thousands of dollars, for almost nothing. You could find yourself being promoted by the President of the United States, or even receiving a nomination for the Air Force Academy.
The opportunities are literally endless. Trust me.
Just be sure to keep your monthly safety briefings up to date.
Quote from: elipod on May 27, 2011, 05:47:52 PM
Quote from: JThemann on May 27, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
College is far more important then CAP right now. You shouldn't even be asking if "college comes first." An ASN is gonna support you and your family. CAP isn't.
Haha, true true. I wont disagree with that, but I am finding it amazing, how much I, as a cadet, can get out of the program. The opportunities are endless. College does come first, but if you put into CAP, you will get amazing experiences out of it. If you are dedicated, in just a few short years, you could find yourself on a trip worth thousands of dollars, for almost nothing. You could find yourself being promoted by the President of the United States, or even receiving a nomination for the Air Force Academy.
The opportunities are literally endless. Trust me.
Not quite as endless as an ASN/BSN. Yes, you can get a lot out of CAP (I did), and yes it's important, but a promotion by the President doesn't pay the bills, and a nomination for a service academy is much more likely to come from academics or sports.
If I could go back to my freshman year of college, which was only five years ago, there's a lot I would of done differently, esepcially if I had went into a nursing program. With just a few extra years of training and experience, a CRNA makes well over a hundred thousand dollars a year. A RN with a BSN is also eligable for a direct comission into the military.
And don't depend on CAP to make your mortgage payments. ;D
Quote from: Arrow on May 27, 2011, 04:12:00 AMMy weekly squadron meetings are on Wednesdays @ 1900-2100. My SOCL 101 classes are on Wednesdays 1700-2030. As you can see, the class and the meeting conflict with one another. This is the last sociology class that is not full, and I need this class for my first semester.
Keep on eye on the sociology classes and/or in touch with your advisor after the session has started. Some students enroll, but fail to pay/decide to go elsewhere. Others may drop the class shortly after the session starts. Either way, a seat may become available at a time more suited to your personal schedule.
Regardless, congrats on making it into a nursing program. There are many still on waiting lists out there!!
First of all, congratulations on your choice. Nursing is a noble profession. I have been treated over the years by some very good ones, including Nurse Practitioners.
In my squadron, if you expect to be consistently absent for an extended period of time, you are required to submit a Leave of Absence. Two members of my unit are doing that right now.
I encourage you to think about coming back as a Flight Officer. We have a former cadet who is doing quite well as a FO.
Quote from: JThemann on May 27, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
Not quite as endless as an ASN/BSN. Yes, you can get a lot out of CAP (I did), and yes it's important, but a promotion by the President doesn't pay the bills, and a nomination for a service academy is much more likely to come from academics or sports.
Not true at all. My brother just received his Spaatz award, and the General who promoted him, offered a nomination to the Air Force Academy.
Quote from: elipod on May 27, 2011, 10:15:42 PM
Quote from: JThemann on May 27, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
Not quite as endless as an ASN/BSN. Yes, you can get a lot out of CAP (I did), and yes it's important, but a promotion by the President doesn't pay the bills, and a nomination for a service academy is much more likely to come from academics or sports.
Not true at all. My brother just received his Spaatz award, and the General who promoted him, offered a nomination to the Air Force Academy.
Umm. Okay. Did it come on official letterhead?
Quote from: elipod on May 27, 2011, 10:15:42 PM
Quote from: JThemann on May 27, 2011, 05:35:19 PM
Not quite as endless as an ASN/BSN. Yes, you can get a lot out of CAP (I did), and yes it's important, but a promotion by the President doesn't pay the bills, and a nomination for a service academy is much more likely to come from academics or sports.
Not true at all. My brother just received his Spaatz award, and the General who promoted him, offered a nomination to the Air Force Academy.
Great. Know how many people are
nominated to USAFA each year? >12,000. How many are
appointed? 1,000. You can get a nomination from your congressman too if you send him a nice letter and have a good high school resume.
EDIT: Fixed my failure to pay attention.
Alright. Maybe i'm just a cadet, and am all Gung-Ho about CAP, haha. I see the opportunities as never ending. I am going to college in January, but will definitely join the local squadron. There is no way i'm missing out on all this :)
Quote from: elipod on May 28, 2011, 12:47:08 AM
Alright. Maybe i'm just a cadet, and am all Gung-Ho about CAP, haha. I see the opportunities as never ending. I am going to college in January, but will definitely join the local squadron. There is no way i'm missing out on all this :)
Your enthusiam is great, but you're also reaching a point in your life where the choices you make will affect the rest of your life.
As others have said it is very important for you to decide on a good working career path and move at a quick pace to get the appropriate education to assist you in that career path.
Unfortunately, in CAP I've met both older cadets & (younger) seniors that have "lost their way" in life career wise and utilize CAP as the "crutch" for their stagnation and have never seem to be able to break free to enhance/change careers because the CAP meetings/activities have taken priority in their lives. Fortunately (and unfortunately as far as money goes) some have now been forced to go back and change their career due to becoming unemployed and having to take a good look at what is really important.
IF you need to take a leave of absence due to school by all means just do it. Make your education/career path your primary goal. CAP is likely to be around when you finish your schooling and you can become more active at that time IF you choose to do this.
RM
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 28, 2011, 05:18:55 PM
IF you need to take a leave of absence due to school by all means just do it. Make your education/career path your primary goal. CAP is likely to be around when you finish your schooling and you can become more active at that time IF you choose to do this.
RM
Pretty much this. I've been able to turn things around so that I'm in the program I want to be in after all, but it'll take me two or three more years to finish my bachelor's degree and I've just past four academic years in college. And a large part of that was because I didn't utilize my time properly. That's two or three years that I could be building a solid base for my career, or utilize in earning a Masters or Ph.D. About the only good thing is that I started young, so I was able to absorb some of that hit.
When in doubt, school and family comes first.
Quote from: elipod on May 28, 2011, 12:47:08 AM
Alright. Maybe i'm just a cadet, and am all Gung-Ho about CAP, haha. I see the opportunities as never ending. I am going to college in January, but will definitely join the local squadron. There is no way i'm missing out on all this :)
Been there, done that, inactive since early 2008.
:/
College is college, and at the end of the day, the Cadet Program is "nice" but it's not life.
As a college professor my opinion is simply that if you're going to a college that leaves enough time for being active in CAP, you should go to a more competitive college instead.
The difference between how much students study at a really good college and a mediocre college is enormous. At the highly rated liberal arts college I now work at, students study about 40 hours a week, in addition to time spent actually in classes and labs.
At the medium ranked state university I formerly taught at, the average student studied fewer than 5 hours a week. Of course even at state u there were some students who studied hard. But because class work has to be pitched at the average student, even a hard-studier wouldn't get the education he or she deserves.
I always explain this to prospective students. If you want to have a good time, an Arizona State education will provide lots of free time for parties (or CAP). Just don't be deceived into believing that you'll be getting the education you could get at our college.
Quote from: dogboy on June 05, 2011, 06:18:45 PM
As a college professor my opinion is simply that if you're going to a college that leaves enough time for being active in CAP, you should go to a more competitive college instead.
The difference between how much students study at a really good college and a mediocre college is enormous. At the highly rated liberal arts college I now work at, students study about 40 hours a week, in addition to time spent actually in classes and labs.
At the medium ranked state university I formerly taught at, the average student studied fewer than 5 hours a week. Of course even at state u there were some students who studied hard. But because class work has to be pitched at the average student, even a hard-studier wouldn't get the education he or she deserves.
I always explain this to prospective students. If you want to have a good time, an Arizona State education will provide lots of free time for parties (or CAP). Just don't be deceived into believing that you'll be getting the education you could get at our college.
40 Hours a week? I guess you're one of THOSE professors.
I work a full time job, with full time college course work. 4 nights, 4 classes, 3 hours each.
That's 12 hours in class per week.
I'd say on average I spend maybe 1-2 hours per class, outside of class. I can also say that this is reasonable.
Pray tell what you think a student is doing for 40 hours per week on 4-6 classes? If I spend under 4 hours in class, why would I spend 10+ hours learning? Maybe your college needs to focus on teaching more IN class? Perhaps the students are learning on their own due to lack of proper instruction?
Since when does quantity of time studying equate to quality of the instruction?
For reference, this is some ranking for my University, where I'm doing quite well:
Quote| USNWR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._News_%26_World_Report) National University[2] | 136 |
| WM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Monthly) National University[3] | 112 |
Your comments support mine entirely.
I'd say on average I spend maybe 1-2 hours per class, outside of class.
For reference, this is some ranking for my University, where I'm doing quite well:
Quote
USNWR National University[2] 136
WM National University[3] 112
Just as I said, students at a "mediocre college" spend, on the average 5 hours a week on out of class work. You state that you spend 4-8 and you're doing "quite well".
What do students at my college spend 40 hours a week doing? I'm afraid you'll never understand but it's the difference between a real education and training to be a drone.
It's a pity because if you can work full-time and go to school full time, you might actually be capable of doing real college work.
But your plan is perfectly ok with me.. The world needs lots of drones.
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 05, 2011, 07:47:43 PM
Quote from: dogboy on June 05, 2011, 06:18:45 PM
As a college professor my opinion is simply that if you're going to a college that leaves enough time for being active in CAP, you should go to a more competitive college instead.
The difference between how much students study at a really good college and a mediocre college is enormous. At the highly rated liberal arts college I now work at, students study about 40 hours a week, in addition to time spent actually in classes and labs.
At the medium ranked state university I formerly taught at, the average student studied fewer than 5 hours a week. Of course even at state u there were some students who studied hard. But because class work has to be pitched at the average student, even a hard-studier wouldn't get the education he or she deserves.
I always explain this to prospective students. If you want to have a good time, an Arizona State education will provide lots of free time for parties (or CAP). Just don't be deceived into believing that you'll be getting the education you could get at our college.
40 Hours a week? I guess you're one of THOSE professors.
I work a full time job, with full time college course work. 4 nights, 4 classes, 3 hours each.
That's 12 hours in class per week.
I'd say on average I spend maybe 1-2 hours per class, outside of class. I can also say that this is reasonable.
Pray tell what you think a student is doing for 40 hours per week on 4-6 classes? If I spend under 4 hours in class, why would I spend 10+ hours learning? Maybe your college needs to focus on teaching more IN class? Perhaps the students are learning on their own due to lack of proper instruction?
Since when does quantity of time studying equate to quality of the instruction?
For reference, this is some ranking for my University, where I'm doing quite well:
Quote| USNWR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._News_%26_World_Report) National University[2] | 136 |
| WM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Monthly) National University[3] | 112 |
+1 - I work full time and attend a state university full time. Next semester I will take 3 classes online and 1 on campus. I spend a couple hours a week on each class but you won't see me spending 40 hours a week studying.
Exactly.
+1 - I work full time and attend a state university full time. Next semester I will take 3 classes online and 1 on campus. I spend a couple hours a week on each class but you won't see me spending 40 hours a week studying.
Wow.
Enjoy that world view then. What exactly makes a University "mediocre" in your mind?
As a professor, I would think you would enjoy the opportunity to at least tell a 'drone' what a student will spend 40 hours outside of class doing.
It's great to see you talk about drones, yet expect 'good' students at a 'good' college to spend a full workweek doing homework. No consideration for individual strengths/intelligence/learning styles?
What exactly do you teach? Astrophysics?
What exactly makes a University "mediocre" in your mind?
A college where one can do "quite well" with 4-8 hours of out-of-class work a week.
Quote from: dogboy on June 05, 2011, 08:36:38 PM
What exactly makes a University "mediocre" in your mind?
A college where one can do "quite well" with 4-8 hours of out-of-class work a week.
How about answering my other questions about your kick-ass univeristy?
In 2005 there were two thousand six hundred eighteen accredited four-year colleges and universities.
Lets put mine at 125. That's in the top 5%. I don't lay claim to being at an Ivy League school, but I also don't believe the BS you're telling us about what the average student does outside of class at your college. Unless like I said, the "death by powerpoint" is strong within you that they NEED to learn it on their own.
Locally, National University has a reputation as a degree mill. The graduates get an OK education that might get them an OK job, but it is very different from the quality of education the students at UCSD receive.
Quote from: dogboy on June 05, 2011, 06:18:45 PM
As a college professor my opinion is simply that if you're going to a college that leaves enough time for being active in CAP, you should go to a more competitive college instead.
The difference between how much students study at a really good college and a mediocre college is enormous. At the highly rated liberal arts college I now work at, students study about 40 hours a week, in addition to time spent actually in classes and labs.
At the medium ranked state university I formerly taught at, the average student studied fewer than 5 hours a week. Of course even at state u there were some students who studied hard. But because class work has to be pitched at the average student, even a hard-studier wouldn't get the education he or she deserves.
I always explain this to prospective students. If you want to have a good time, an Arizona State education will provide lots of free time for parties (or CAP). Just don't be deceived into believing that you'll be getting the education you could get at our college.
does that 40 hour requirement include lounging on the quad wearing che t-shirts smoking a "J"?
Or intro to bongo's and crappy poetry 101?
School bashing is fun and all, but when you start slamming others choice of education and dedication to CAP, then you reap what you sew.
I have no illusions that my school isn't at the top of the list in my major, but I can afford it, and that's what counts.
Not to mention I have been to a prestigious school with a top 10 rated engineering program, and I found that all that extra out of class work was just compensation for crappy in class teaching.
YMMV
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 05, 2011, 08:41:45 PM
Quote from: dogboy on June 05, 2011, 08:36:38 PM
What exactly makes a University "mediocre" in your mind?
A college where one can do "quite well" with 4-8 hours of out-of-class work a week.
How about answering my other questions about your kick-ass univeristy?
In 2005 there were two thousand six hundred eighteen accredited four-year colleges and universities.
Lets put mine at 125. That's in the top 5%. I don't lay claim to being at an Ivy League school, but I also don't believe the BS you're telling us about what the average student does outside of class at your college. Unless like I said, the "death by powerpoint" is strong within you that they NEED to learn it on their own.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-arum-college-20110602,0,1981136.story
Quote from: dogboy on June 07, 2011, 09:44:00 PMhttp://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-arum-college-20110602,0,1981136.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-arum-college-20110602,0,1981136.story)
Again no answers to my questions?
That's fine.
Your article supports MY side more so than yours. (Aside from the fact that it's an OP-ED).
It states that the average now is 5 hours, which is about HALF of the 1960s. Do you know what I attribute it to? Technology. I can probably multitask MUCH better than someone my age in the 60s could. I also don't need to spend hours upon hours in the library looking up facts in a book, when I have things such as "THE GOOGLE", and it's great collection of scholarly sources and even hundreds of thousands of books.
But it's great to see that you expect students to spend four times as long today as they would have in the 60s, given all the advances in education and technology since then. After all, progress and anything related to it must be a dirty word.