I know its been covered before, but are there any suggestions as to any portable radio's?
Should I be getting a portable radio for CAP use?
I have ACUT & ROA. MRO Training.
Quote from: spreilly on May 24, 2011, 08:14:04 PM
Should I be getting a portable radio for CAP use?
My answer to this is generally "no", but I say that now having just personally spent a few bucks on a radio even though
I have plenty issued to me because the one I bought was smaller and had some nice features and 4 batteries.
So the question is not "Should I buy one?", but "Do I need one?"
Has any activity you have recently participated in been negatively impacted by your not owning a radio? Is there something
you want to do that requires a personally-owned radio?
Have you asked if there are radios to share or be issued to you? How about your quals? Are you a GTL who might be able to get
one through the TOA?
I never thought of it like that. But, just for kicks, do you recommend any radio's? I'm not saying that I'll be getting one, just, if, like you said, not owning a radio negatively impacts the task at hand, what radio should I get for the next mission?
You can get a used Motorola Astro Saber with P25 for about $300 + shipping on eBay. Not the smallest radio, but built like a tank. The only real issue is getting it programmed, but once that's done you're pretty much set.
- john
That's what Google's for. Thanks!
The EFJ HT that I have issued through the GTL TOA retails for about $1800 with one battery and a very kludgy charger. It's also pretty heavy and has a flaky design for the belt clip (which has resulted in at least one lost one in my wing). It does, however, have the advantage of being
relatively future proof as it will do digital and encryption (which CAP will likely never use).
Whereas the Motorola Visar I just purchased from the Wing DC (who basically never saw a radio he wouldn't buy), was about $175 (used) including
a full-sized and stubby antenna, 4 batteries, a 2-slot desktop battery charger, and a surveillance earpiece w/ mic. It's "only" 16 channels, so it isn't
future proof, however it is capable of being programmed for anything officially in use these days. It is also about 1/2 the size of the EFJ "Mortgage payment".
You should be able to find HT1000s on ebay and other secondary sources fairly easily in the $100 range.
I know my squadron has a radio that they used to use regularly (like once a week) to chat on. Don't know if that's the norm for other squadrons though.
At least as far as the TOA goes, every unit is supposed to be issued at least one mobile (car) radio with a base station for the
discretionary use of the Unit CC. This would be in addition to radios issued to members for GT use, vehicles, etc.
Unfortunately not all units have someone that can receive an issued radio.
The MTS2000 is compliant and has either 48 or 160 channels. 48 channels works in most wings for all the repeaters in the wing. I've seen them for around $200 in EvilBay. Make sure the radio will go down to 136 MHz. I have one (48 channel) as a spare/loaner unit. They are analog only - no P25 or encryption.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 25, 2011, 12:25:10 AM
At least as far as the TOA goes, every unit is supposed to be issued at least one mobile (car) radio with a base station for the
discretionary use of the Unit CC. This would be in addition to radios issued to members for GT use, vehicles, etc.
Unfortunately not all units have someone that can receive an issued radio.
This might be a bit wing specific, but I'm going to throw it out there anyways. I asked a wing comm staff member informally about being issued comm equipment in accordance with the TOA right around the time I was wrapping up my GTL rating. I basically got told that radios were scarce and unless I had a registered ground team with wing DOS I was out of luck.
Point is that even in our own wing portables aren't that easy to come by. We have a squadron mobile that I've been needing to get set up at HQ but that's another story.
OP - I purchased an XTS3000 awhile back for about $500 and change. I would recommend getting a serious read on your wing's comm program (work through the chain to talk with your wing comm staff) before making any radio purchase.
We have six portables for the entire Wing. The DC can't decide who to issue them to, so they sit in a closet at Wing HQ.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on May 25, 2011, 04:20:27 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on May 25, 2011, 12:25:10 AM
At least as far as the TOA goes, every unit is supposed to be issued at least one mobile (car) radio with a base station for the
discretionary use of the Unit CC. This would be in addition to radios issued to members for GT use, vehicles, etc.
Unfortunately not all units have someone that can receive an issued radio.
This might be a bit wing specific, but I'm going to throw it out there anyways. I asked a wing comm staff member informally about being issued comm equipment in accordance with the TOA right around the time I was wrapping up my GTL rating. I basically got told that radios were scarce and unless I had a registered ground team with wing DOS I was out of luck.
Specific to our wing...
There is no such thing as a "registered ground team", however the DOS is in charge of issuing the GTL kits against the TOA, and a number of factors
are considered including experience, proximity to most missions and activities, and the assumption of using the equipment. There are only so many to go around and you have to at least try to get them in the hands of people who use them, and there will always be a few who need them but don't get them.
Quote from: EMT-83 on May 25, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
We have six portables for the entire Wing. The DC can't decide who to issue them to, so they sit in a closet at Wing HQ.
If they are HT's, his challenge is that it isn't his call, and if you don't have GTL's, there may be literally no one to give them to. We've had that challenge for years - the wing receives "x" number of radios based on assumptions, and then can't issue them because unit either don't want them, or have no one who can receive it (no ROA, etc.).
With that said, if you have HT's on the shelf, and people to take them, I'm surprised that survives a CI or SAV, since that is specifically the kind of thing
that hacks off the USAF.
Quote from: EMT-83 on May 25, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
We have six portables for the entire Wing. The DC can't decide who to issue them to, so they sit in a closet at Wing HQ.
Assign them to squadrons with GTL's and let the squadron communications officer assign them as appropriate. Or cache them for any of the GTL's to use as needed. Portable radios are allocated based on the number of GTL's but they don't have to be assigned to them directly.
I am a fan of caching HT's at the squadron level. That way they are readily available to GTL's (primary purpose) and other members can get some hands-on HT time as well. Of course this assumes suitable storage facilities that qualified members can access as needed.
If it was up to me, they would have been in the field a year ago.
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 25, 2011, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on May 25, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
We have six portables for the entire Wing. The DC can't decide who to issue them to, so they sit in a closet at Wing HQ.
Assign them to squadrons with GTL's and let the squadron communications officer assign them as appropriate. Or cache them for any of the GTL's to use as needed. Portable radios are allocated based on the number of GTL's but they don't have to be assigned to them directly.
Yes, they do. Equipment issued based on the GTL TOA is issued to the person (as is all equipment), and it goes with them
if they move to another squadron. If they drop GTL, the equip has to come back to wing unless there is another suitable GTL to transfer it to.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 25, 2011, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 25, 2011, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on May 25, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
We have six portables for the entire Wing. The DC can't decide who to issue them to, so they sit in a closet at Wing HQ.
Assign them to squadrons with GTL's and let the squadron communications officer assign them as appropriate. Or cache them for any of the GTL's to use as needed. Portable radios are allocated based on the number of GTL's but they don't have to be assigned to them directly.
Yes, they do. Equipment issued based on the GTL TOA is issued to the person (as is all equipment), and it goes with them
if they move to another squadron. If they drop GTL, the equip has to come back to wing unless there is another suitable GTL to transfer it to.
Cite?
Quote from: Eclipse on May 25, 2011, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 25, 2011, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on May 25, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
We have six portables for the entire Wing. The DC can't decide who to issue them to, so they sit in a closet at Wing HQ.
Assign them to squadrons with GTL's and let the squadron communications officer assign them as appropriate. Or cache them for any of the GTL's to use as needed. Portable radios are allocated based on the number of GTL's but they don't have to be assigned to them directly.
Yes, they do. Equipment issued based on the GTL TOA is issued to the person (as is all equipment), and it goes with them
if they move to another squadron. If they drop GTL, the equip has to come back to wing unless there is another suitable GTL to transfer it to.
Equipment is issued to squadrons and the comm officers in the squadrons (or groups) issue the equipment to individuals. The Wing DC's that have tried to run the program with direct issues to individuals all over the wing have found it very difficult to manages. Squadron Comm Officers can advise the commander to pull equipment back from individuals IF there's issues. That's why there's a chain of command. I would imagine that UDF/Ground Team Comm equipment in wings that have groups likely are handled by the group rather than the squadron
RM
Eclipses' point about "wanting" versus "needing" is a very poignant one, but there is something in the soul of every ham/comm guy that makes us want radios of our very own. ( I write this while sitting in a room with an Icom 706, a half a dozen Icom F30GS's, Vertex VX-150's, etc. all purchased at one point primarily for CAP, and many now officially useless) We don't really "need" to be in CAP at all, but our passion, sense of duty, or some other emotion elevates the desire to ( A Maslow's hierarchy) a level of "Need". Buying a radio for CAP on your own dime is like joining the Comm or ES fraternity. ( Drilling a 3/4 inch hole in your family car for an NMO antenna is the actual baptism!) As long as we have cellphones and the internet to alert us to missions, none of us probably really "need" a radio in the most imperative sense of the term. On the other hand, when the fabric of society is torn, and only the radios connect us, its too late to go check one out at the squadron.
Major Lord
Quote from: Eclipse on May 25, 2011, 08:08:06 PM
Quote from: wuzafuzz on May 25, 2011, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: EMT-83 on May 25, 2011, 03:43:55 PM
We have six portables for the entire Wing. The DC can't decide who to issue them to, so they sit in a closet at Wing HQ.
Assign them to squadrons with GTL's and let the squadron communications officer assign them as appropriate. Or cache them for any of the GTL's to use as needed. Portable radios are allocated based on the number of GTL's but they don't have to be assigned to them directly.
Yes, they do. Equipment issued based on the GTL TOA is issued to the person (as is all equipment), and it goes with them
if they move to another squadron. If they drop GTL, the equip has to come back to wing unless there is another suitable GTL to transfer it to.
No. Due to the shortage of equipment, if a GTL moves to another unit, the equipment they were issued stays with the old unit. They then issue it to another GTL in the unit. No wing has a full ToA. My wing has less than half of the ToA handhelds, and not enough to issue one to every GTL. Add to the mix unit funded equipment and you can cause real problems telling a unit the $800 DF unit they raised funds for is being transferred to another unit just because one member left.
Quote from: arajca on May 26, 2011, 04:13:36 PMNo. Due to the shortage of equipment, if a GTL moves to another unit, the equipment they were issued stays with the old unit. They then issue it to another GTL in the unit. No wing has a full ToA. My wing has less than half of the ToA handhelds, and not enough to issue one to every GTL. Add to the mix unit funded equipment and you can cause real problems telling a unit the $800 DF unit they raised funds for is being transferred to another unit just because one member left.
Sorry, I continue to disagree. I haven't cited yet because I am waiting for some confirmation from the Wing DC. My suspicion is that I am correct on the
policy, but that it is not being implemented correctly in all wings.
If a piece of equipment is issued based on the TOA, it stays with the person, not the unit. A respective unit CC could deny one of his members from taking the equipment at all, but has no control over it beyond that.
When the person moves, they either take it with them, or return it to wing. If they lose their quals, their either return it to the wing, or the wing could potentially issue it to someone else in that unit who has the proper quals, but not just "anyone".
Of course wings don't have full TOA's, but that doesn't change the policy for equip issued under it, nor does a perceived shortage of gear. Unlike days of old, the gear is now (mostly) issued based on need and usage, and the intention is to get it, and keep it, in the hands of people who actually have a use for it.
The ToA is not for GTL, it's for the GT. If Sqdn A has a GT with two GTLs and one GTL moves to Sqdn B which does not have a GT the equipment stays with sqdn A. Nowhere did I say it can be issued to "anyone" as you say in youyr rebuttal.
A long running discussion among the wing DCs is how to distribute the equipment. Each wing has its own policy. As a wing DC, I have been told by national that the equipment stays with the team, not the GTL.
The equipment has been assigned to the units, who determine which qualified members get the equipment issued. No units that I'm aware of have enough equipment to issue to every qualified member.
As a fellow Wing DC, I agree with Andrew. We issue GT-specific radios (above what we allocate as "normal equipment" to all of our squadrons) based on the Wing DOS informing us that the particular squadron has a functional GT. The radios then stay with that squadron until they no longer meet the Wing requirements of having a GT (yearly review process). We've been adding more teams over the past few years than losing them, so we are not "stealing" equipment back from deserving units.
I also agree with an earlier post that someone made. We issue all radios to the squadron, and they manage who they are assigned to. The only radios that are left on the xx-001 inventory are those that are assigned to Wing Staff members, corporate vehicles, or Incident Command Trailers. We also have very few radios that are "sitting on shelves" at Wing HQ. The ones that are there are for spares if something happens to one of the radios in the field, or if additional resources are needed for some particular mission, exercise, or activity. Keeping too many assets on the 001 inventory makes the yearly inventory process a NIGHTMARE!
Quote from: argentip on May 26, 2011, 05:45:33 PM
As a fellow Wing DC, I agree with Andrew. We issue GT-specific radios (above what we allocate as "normal equipment" to all of our squadrons) based on the Wing DOS informing us that the particular squadron has a functional GT. The radios then stay with that squadron until they no longer meet the Wing requirements of having a GT (yearly review process). We've been adding more teams over the past few years than losing them, so we are not "stealing" equipment back from deserving units.
Not all wings operate their ES at the unit level, and not all units have coherent "GT's".
Quote from: argentip on May 26, 2011, 05:45:33 PM
I also agree with an earlier post that someone made. We issue all radios to the squadron, and they manage who they are assigned to. The only radios that are left on the xx-001 inventory are those that are assigned to Wing Staff members, corporate vehicles, or Incident Command Trailers. We also have very few radios that are "sitting on shelves" at Wing HQ. The ones that are there are for spares if something happens to one of the radios in the field, or if additional resources are needed for some particular mission, exercise, or activity. Keeping too many assets on the 001 inventory makes the yearly inventory process a NIGHTMARE!
To be clear, the equipment is issued and sits on the inventory at the respective unit the person is assigned to. It is not on -001's books. However
you may note that it is an SUI / CI / annual inventory issue that all equipment be issued to a person, not the unit generically.
Equipment spares and other unassigned gear at wing level is not part of this discussion.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 26, 2011, 05:59:22 PM
However you may note that it is an SUI / CI / annual inventory issue that all equipment be issued to a person, not the unit generically.
It is best that all equipment be issued to a person, but it is not required. For example, if the unit has a radio set up at their meeting location, it just needs to have the location entered into ORMS "Location" field for that asset.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 26, 2011, 05:59:22 PM
Quote from: argentip on May 26, 2011, 05:45:33 PM
As a fellow Wing DC, I agree with Andrew. We issue GT-specific radios (above what we allocate as "normal equipment" to all of our squadrons) based on the Wing DOS informing us that the particular squadron has a functional GT. The radios then stay with that squadron until they no longer meet the Wing requirements of having a GT (yearly review process). We've been adding more teams over the past few years than losing them, so we are not "stealing" equipment back from deserving units.
Not all wings operate their ES at the unit level, and not all units have coherent "GT's".
Perhaps that's why we have differing perceptions of "policy." Individual wings may have created their own policies to reflect local needs. I'm unaware of any provision in CAPR's or other national policy memos that require issuance of portable radios to individuals. (Assigning gear to kits is permitted in ORMS.) Perhaps something exists that I missed. Until then I'm of the opinion leaving room for local flexibility is a good thing, as long as national policies are complied with.
I own a Motorola MT-2000 160 channel portable radio. Does narrowband (2.5 kHz) channels and covers 136-174. It is however analog. I also own a Motorola XTS-2500. This is an 800+ channel radio. I don't even know the max number... I'll probably never hit it! It does P25 digital as well as analog. It can do narrow or wide band as well. The range is also 136-174. I got a heck of a deal on both of them, $200 for the MT-2000 three years ago, and $500 for the XTS-2500 just a few months ago.
If you can find a good deal, Motorola is a good way to go, though I also like the Johnson 5100. That plus EFJohnson takes Motorola equipment, and changes just enough to go from being "copyright infringment" to "interoperability." Motorola chargers, batteries, and microphones usually always work on Johnson portables. Any commercial grade (and NTIA compliant) equipment is usually rugged for outdoor use.