Just wondering if anyone knows if CAP sponsor training on this. After all K9 is a great asset on rescue operations.
Maybe forty or so years ago. There's been nothing recently. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of what we do. We actually do much more search than rescue, and dogs can't search very well from inside an airplane.
Quote from: SarDragon on April 07, 2011, 07:31:05 AM
Maybe forty or so years ago. There's been nothing recently. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of what we do. We actually do much more search than rescue, and dogs can't search very well from inside an airplane.
You know those little people on the ground in camo trying to talk to you on the radio? Dogs are our friends...
That said, there are NGO and local agencies that can do way better with dogs than we can - so we rely on them. If you establish a relationship with your local dog team you may find they will call you to support their team (they need people to help keep the dog and handler safe because both are focused on the search and not on things like navigating or environmental hazards).
EDIT: Fixed spelling mistake, that's what I get for trying to post before I put my contacts in.
Training and maintaining a search dog requires a tremendous amount of time and money. And you might (emphasis: MIGHT), get to use them once or twice in an actual before the dog retires.
Quote from: N Harmon on April 07, 2011, 10:02:28 AM
Training and maintaining a search dog requires a tremendous amount of time and money. And you might (emphasis: MIGHT), get to use them once or twice in an actual before the dog retires.
Not so everywhere. Our local team goes somewhere in the state at least once a month on live searches.
Quote from: cap235629 on April 07, 2011, 12:00:03 PM
Not so everywhere. Our local team goes somewhere in the state at least once a month on live searches.
This is a CAP team? Doing AFAMs? If so, I am impressed. Bravo!
Not a CAP team. I was just pointing out that the ops tempo regarding the use of dogs varies based upon geography.
Quote from: jgdeleon31 on April 07, 2011, 02:30:43 AM
Just wondering if anyone knows if CAP sponsor training on this. After all K9 is a great asset on rescue operations.
I don't think CAP regulations allow dog search teams. There's plenty of other organizations that train their dogs and certify them and on occasion are called to assist with search IF the local/county/state PD doesn't have dogs.
I know that some cadets have been used as the training aid for the dogs by hiding in forest areas and leaving something the dog could sniff behind.
When I was in the AF I was very skeptical about the drug & explosive detection dogs UNTIL I saw them working and finding the goodies. Dogs are a very good asset in lost person searches, especially if the person is hiding or has consciousness.
RM
Quote from: cap235629 on April 07, 2011, 12:56:22 PM
Not a CAP team. I was just pointing out that the ops tempo regarding the use of dogs varies based upon geography.
No doubt. If K9 SAR is your thing, then there are state/local groups that will help you with the training and call you out for searches on a regular basis. My point is that if you happen to also be a CAP member, you can use your K9 in CAP operations. However, the opportunity will not present itself often.
If you want to train a SAR dog (and like others have said - get linked in with a local agency or other team now to start working with them and decide what type of dog you want), you might consider cross-training it. I met a dog team on a SAREX whose dogs are cross-trained in tracking/trailing/air scent and cadaver detection. Those cadaver dogs are something else - the one that they did a demo with found a tooth and a couple strands of hair in a cloth bag buried in snow. This cross-training results in the dog being more useful and you will get called out more frequently as a result.
When I was seriously considering training a SAR dog, I did a lot of research. Generally the consensus is that you can cross train, but it's best to not train a dog used for finding living people in cadaver search.
Reason? You don't want to get led up to a cadaver while a live and injured person is desperately awaiting rescue.
As for CAP, I don't think there are any regulations that prohibit CAP from using dogs, it's just that we don't have any means of certification. You and your dog would have to be certified and tested by an outside organization. CAP does recognize the importance of dogs to missing person searches, as it is an SQTR for one of the GTM ratings (can't think of it off the top of my head right now) to work with or at least be familiar with working with working dogs/handlers.
As for dog's in airplanes, we did a multi-agency SAREX a few years back where we tried the feasibility of transporting dogs and handlers via our aircraft. Worked pretty well, and it was kind of a fun event for the handlers, dogs didn't seem to be phased by it.
Quote from: tsrup on April 08, 2011, 04:14:24 PM
When I was seriously considering training a SAR dog, I did a lot of research. Generally the consensus is that you can cross train, but it's best to not train a dog used for finding living people in cadaver search.
Reason? You don't want to get led up to a cadaver while a live and injured person is desperately awaiting rescue.
As for CAP, I don't think there are any regulations that prohibit CAP from using dogs, it's just that we don't have any means of certification. You and your dog would have to be certified and tested by an outside organization. CAP does recognize the importance of dogs to missing person searches, as it is an SQTR for one of the GTM ratings (can't think of it off the top of my head right now) to work with or at least be familiar with working with working dogs/handlers.
As for dog's in airplanes, we did a multi-agency SAREX a few years back where we tried the feasibility of transporting dogs and handlers via our aircraft. Worked pretty well, and it was kind of a fun event for the handlers, dogs didn't seem to be phased by it.
GTM1 requires familiarity with dogs.
NASAR has dog standards that a lot of agencies train to and certify under. Why shouldn't we?
For the old post about dogs an CAP don't mix because we can't use dogs in airplanes.
I am tired of the idea that CAP has only one aspect to SAR. There is much more than just flying to CAP and SAR! Ground pounders do a lot for the SAR mission, boots on ground is just as imoportant as eyes in the sky. Can you land your plane in the woods and take care of that lost person when thy are found? No? Ok then CAP can work with dogs while searching for our subject. Don't think that your wings are the end all to CaP SAR, it may be so where you are at, but not everywhere, it certainly isn't here.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on April 08, 2011, 05:58:20 PMCan you land your plane in the woods and take care of that lost person when thy are found?
Really want to open that can of worms? >:D
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on April 08, 2011, 05:58:20 PM
I am tired of the idea that CAP has only one aspect to SAR. There is much more than just flying to CAP and SAR! Ground pounders do a lot for the SAR mission, boots on ground is just as imoportant as eyes in the sky.
+1
What can of worms? Let me show this, because everyone who says that CAP cannot render first aid is not reading the regulations. So read this.
QuoteCAPR60-3
f. First Aid and Emergency Medical Care. CAP is not an emergency medical care or paramedic organization and should not advertise itself as such. CAP will not be the primary provider of medical support on missions or training events though qualified personnel can be used to support such activities. The only type of medical aid that should be administered by CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable first aid deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering and executed by a person qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level.
So, if you read that and understand it, you should be ready to administer first aid if necessary to save the subject's life. If we are the first team to reach the subject, we are going to administer first aid if necessary. There is no can of worms.
EDIT: Preventing human suffering means splinting a broken leg and bandaging wounds that are bleeding excessively.
Well, there goes a good topic >:(.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on April 08, 2011, 08:04:39 PM
Well, there goes a good topic >:(.
Still a good topic, that is done and over, no arguing needed. >:D
Dog teams are very valuable in SAR, and can work great along side of CAP ground teams provided the ground team listens to the handler and does as he/she instructs about where to be in relation to the dog. I would never discount any asset that could be used in SAR.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on April 08, 2011, 08:04:39 PM
Well, there goes a good topic >:(.
My apologies fellow CAPTalkers, I did not intend to derail the thread. :-[
Quote from: jgdeleon31 on April 07, 2011, 02:30:43 AM
Just wondering if anyone knows if CAP sponsor training on this. After all K9 is a great asset on rescue operations.
Back in the 1990's when I was a Squadron CC in Texas, our unit had a SAR dog and handler. We deployed them on numerous SAREXs and (at least) one large REDCAP in 1997 very successfully.
Mind you, there were skeptics, even within our own unit as to the effectiveness of a SAR dog, but these were quickly put to rest.
As a retired IC, I strongly support their inclusion in CAP ground SAR.
Quote from: Chaplaindon on April 27, 2011, 08:45:56 PM
Back in the 1990's when I was a Squadron CC in Texas
What squadron? I know of at least one squadron in TX where the main GT guy in the unit has regularly used his search dog.
Quote from: jeders on April 27, 2011, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Chaplaindon on April 27, 2011, 08:45:56 PM
Back in the 1990's when I was a Squadron CC in Texas
What squadron? I know of at least one squadron in TX where the main GT guy in the unit has regularly used his search dog.
You should see if I can contact this person, if you have his information. I have an amazing Appenzellar who would rock the SAR world.
Quote from: jeders on April 27, 2011, 09:42:15 PM
Quote from: Chaplaindon on April 27, 2011, 08:45:56 PM
Back in the 1990's when I was a Squadron CC in Texas
What squadron? I know of at least one squadron in TX where the main GT guy in the unit has regularly used his search dog.
I was the commander of the Lone Star Composite Squadron (TX-429) when it was based at Strake Jesuit College Prep in Houston. I was the founding commander and served from 1994 to the fall of 1998 when I entered seminary.
Our SAR dog handler was a woman, who, I believe is no longer in CAP. I know that, tragically, she lost her dog in 2002.
That is sad to hear.