Has anyone noticed the horribly poor quality of some of these new uniform items from Vanguard?
If there's truth to the statement that the quality of an Airman can be measured by the general professional appearance of the uniform and grooming of said Airman - it's sad that we are sentenced to looking horrible just by what we're forced to wear.
The occasion for my noticing the massive change in overall quality was that I was recently promoted. In preparation for getting all my uniform switched over to my new grade, I logged in to Vanguard and ordered the new shoulder slides - both the "velcro" type for the lightweight jacket and regular ones for the uniform shirt/service dress jacket. These things are garbage.
When compared to the old Capt. ones I have, the material is lightweight, flimsy, and of a completely different texture and color than my old ones. They look terrible on the uniform. The old ones were the same weight, color, and texture as standard shoulder slides used by the armed services - just grey. That is not the case for the new ones.
While I was at it, I bought a new flight cap insignia. In the process of putting it on my flight cap, one of the pins bent just pushing it through the same holes that the old one I had used - the holes were already there... It's shiny, but it's poor quality. My old one - though not shiny unless I polish it is heavier, better made (not made in China). The worst part of it is that in attempting to bend the pin back; it broke off of the insignia... That's not just bad quality, that's horrible quality. Why do we accept this kind of garbage?
Worse, there's nowhere else that this stuff can be bought. Other shops that used to carry better quality versions of these items are no longer in business due to litigation issues from National. It begs the question... If you're going to shut down businesses that sell these items wouldn't you want to sell equivalent quality items at the store where the membership is forced by monopoly to buy these "approved" items?
A valid point, but search is your friend.
There are already a number of threads on VG quality and customer service.
Try Evilbay (EBay).
You can sometimes find CAP uniform items and insignia there on the cheap...and they are often older ones in perfectly serviceable condition. Very often the seller is another CAP member who may cut you a deal.
Quote from: KDavis on April 05, 2011, 10:36:49 PMWorse, there's nowhere else that this stuff can be bought. Other shops that used to carry better quality versions of these items are no longer in business due to litigation issues from National.
For the record, the "alternate vendor's" products were lower quality, had incorrect colors, detail flaws, and most of the products that were not standard military issue were pac-rim knock-off's of the official products. They may have been an alternate source, but they were no bargain.
Like any place else, if the quality was not to your liking, return it and get a refund. Did yo contact them about the issue, or is this windmill more effective to tilt at?
Quote from: Eclipse on April 06, 2011, 05:06:34 AM
Quote from: KDavis on April 05, 2011, 10:36:49 PMWorse, there's nowhere else that this stuff can be bought. Other shops that used to carry better quality versions of these items are no longer in business due to litigation issues from National.
For the record, the "alternate vendor's" products were lower quality, had incorrect colors, detail flaws, and most of the products that were not standard military issue were pac-rim knock-off's of the official products. They may have been an alternate source, but they were no bargain.
Like any place else, if the quality was not to your liking, return it and get a refund. Did yo contact them about the issue, or is this windmill more effective to tilt at?
Should be interesting to hear how well/quickly/easily the return process went with Vanguard. I know with the Hock Shop it was pretty easy.
Of course they are the ONLY SOURCE for CAP specific items, so if they got a bad batch from the vendor (or the current vendor selected just isn't capable of producing a quality product), not too much can be done to get the member a quality item until they resolve the quality issue.
Sources tell me that Vanguard wasn't at the MA Wing Conference this year, and I don't know if they've been to any wing conferences lately, but perhaps the economy (member's purchasing less items) has also affect this "profit center" for them so they've had to cut costs.
RM
I've returned two items to Vanguard, and the process went smoothly each time. They sent me a new item, and all was good.
They were at the ILWG conference this last weekend. Not a great big selection but adequate I guess. I bought about $20 worth of CAP specific items. Challenge coin(NWTM pattern), blazer crest, command patch, and a "30" attachment for my RSR.
Quote from: ol'fido on April 06, 2011, 10:22:07 PM
They were at the ILWG conference this last weekend. Not a great big selection but adequate I guess. I bought about $20 worth of CAP specific items. Challenge coin(NWTM pattern), blazer crest, command patch, and a "30" attachment for my RSR.
Pickings were a bit slim. One SM from my squadron was ready to shell out for a new set of blues on the spot, but no blues (or any other sort of uniform) to be found.
Well, don't feel diss'ed, the selection at the Winter Board meeting was pretty thin as well...
I have a pair of the poor shoulder slides I bought about a year or so ago. At the TX Wing conference last weekend, I was kidding the Vanguard reps about it; they gave me a new set free of charge. They apologized for the quality of the previous ones. Didn't want the old ones back!
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 02:57:41 AMI have a pair of the poor shoulder slides I bought about a year or so ago. At the TX Wing conference last weekend, I was kidding the Vanguard reps about it; they gave me a new set free of charge. They apologized for the quality of the previous ones. Didn't want the old ones back!
So that was one bad batch and the new ones look OK again?
I don't know about bad batch, they were lousy quality for quite some time. But they gave Terry a much better pair than what he had, so I would say that they have raised there quality standards.
Yes, they are back to the same quality as before the bad ones. :clap:
Hopefully that includes the Major ones too, I didn't bother to look while I was at the conference.
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 08:18:00 PM
Yes, they are back to the same quality as before the bad ones. :clap:
So just mediocre quality then?
Quote from: davidsinn on April 21, 2011, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 08:18:00 PM
Yes, they are back to the same quality as before the bad ones. :clap:
So just mediocre quality then?
Well, I would say yes, but I haven't seen any better. They are quite presentable.
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 09:54:01 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on April 21, 2011, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 08:18:00 PM
Yes, they are back to the same quality as before the bad ones. :clap:
So just mediocre quality then?
Well, I would say yes, but I haven't seen any better. They are quite presentable.
The ones they make for the military are nice looking. I don't understand why ours suck. Just change the color and add CAP and you're done.
Quote from: davidsinn on April 21, 2011, 09:56:00 PM
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 09:54:01 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on April 21, 2011, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 08:18:00 PM
Yes, they are back to the same quality as before the bad ones. :clap:
So just mediocre quality then?
Well, I would say yes, but I haven't seen any better. They are quite presentable.
The ones they make for the military are nice looking. I don't understand why ours suck. Just change the color and add CAP and you're done.
I suspect it is because the military has strict specifications for stuff made for them. Maybe CAP Corporate doesn't have the same specs. :-\
Quote from: AC on April 21, 2011, 11:53:53 PM
I suspect it is because the military has strict specifications for stuff made for them. Maybe CAP Corporate doesn't have the same specs. :-\
Or more correctly, any specs. If you ever read AFI 36-2903, it specifies the exact color thread to use on insignia.
Ok, so I wrote a rather nice email to VG. I told them that I love the quality of their embroidered badges for the Army and Air Force. Then I told them that I was rather disappointed with the quality of their embroidered badges for Civil Air Patrol. Then that I know they are professionals and they pride themselves in their work and we are professionals as well and pride ourselves in our uniforms, and we would appreciate it if you could could make a further effort in our embroidery. When sending the email I was mostly referring to their quality of GT badges and wings.
Two days later I got an email back thanking me for my candor and writing in a civil tone.
It has been a couple of weeks since the email and I ordered a GTL badge and it was excellent! There are still some little flaws, but overall the quality is much much better. I will post a photo when I can.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 04, 2011, 02:47:24 AMIt has been a couple of weeks since the email and I ordered a GTL badge and it was excellent! There are still some little flaws, but overall the quality is much much better. I will post a photo when I can.
Interesting - I recently ordered a bunch of insignia from them and while most of it actually shipped quickly my ground team basic badges were put on backorder. I wonder if theres a connection.....
Quote from: RVT on May 04, 2011, 10:16:50 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 04, 2011, 02:47:24 AMIt has been a couple of weeks since the email and I ordered a GTL badge and it was excellent! There are still some little flaws, but overall the quality is much much better. I will post a photo when I can.
Interesting - I recently ordered a bunch of insignia from them and while most of it actually shipped quickly my ground team basic badges were put on backorder. I wonder if theres a connection.....
I hope so. I told them that the wreath around them was not recognizable as a wreath and that was my biggest issue. My badge was done so much better. I am glad they got the message and took it for what it was. I hope they continue with the standard that they gave me.
I just got a couple of things from Vanguard too, and when I opened the box I was pleasantly surprised. Higher thread-count, more detail. Doesn't look as nasty as some of the images I've seen others post here.
The SM hat device for my flight cap, however, well...looks like a 400-pounder sat on it before sending it. C'est la vie...
Send the hat device back. I have to say, that is probably one of the best items that they make. I am very pleased with the two I have.
You're all just jealous that they didn't make one of these babies for CAP:
http://www.vanguardmil.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=15439
"Bottle opener attached."
Well, heavenly days! Why am I fooling around with MOLLE gear when I could wear THAT! :P
Quote from: ProdigalJim on May 05, 2011, 01:02:52 AMThe SM hat device for my flight cap, however, well...looks like a 400-pounder sat on it before sending it. C'est la vie...
Maybe it was the 400 lb. pilot from the other thread... ;)
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 04, 2011, 02:47:24 AMIt has been a couple of weeks since the email and I ordered a GTL badge and it was excellent! There are still some little flaws, but overall the quality is much much better. I will post a photo when I can.
My ground team basic sew-ons just came and they look so much better than the old ones they could be mistaken for being a different badge. I wish the GT badge embroidered into my polo shirt looked that good.
Can you post a picture of the new one and the old one? I'd love to see the comparison. If not, no worries!
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8606/1001663l.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/1001663l.jpg/)
This is the new badge, but I don't know what the old one looks like for GTL. I must say though, the quality does compare to my CIB from 1800nametape.com. I am very pleased.
Thanks, this one does look great.
I recently bought some white on blue rank patches from v-guard. I stood out in the rain for about an hour the other day and the blue dye started bleeding into the white embroidery??!! >:( Anybody else have this happen?
Quote from: commando1 on May 11, 2011, 11:25:32 PM
I recently bought some white on blue rank patches from v-guard. I stood out in the rain for about an hour the other day and the blue dye started bleeding into the white embroidery??!! >:( Anybody else have this happen?
Every time, spray them with Scotch Guard.
A buddy of mine was complaining about the look of the new IL wing patch on FB. I went to the Scamguard website to look at it and :o :P >:( :'(. What is supposed to be the outline of the state in the center looks kind of like a bomb dropping on the eagle's head.
So, the joke or tragedy of this is that people used to complain about the Hock Shop's quality.....funny I was never disappointed.....funny what happens when there's only one supplier of insignia, isn't it!
Quote from: flyboy1 on May 14, 2011, 02:08:25 PM
So, the joke or tragedy of this is that people used to complain about the Hock Shop's quality.....funny I was never disappointed.....funny what happens when there's only one supplier of insignia, isn't it!
In this case it appears that the quality has improved.
anyone had experiences with the tie-tacs? I feel as though mine is just plastic painted with the gray/silver color, due mostly to my bending of the tac when I try to put it through my tie :P
All of the ones I have bought have been metal.
You need to be really careful, and slowly push the pin through the tie.
I recently received challenge coins from Vanguard that I ordered about a month ago. These are the coins that I designed and ordered for the 70th Anniversary and the ones shown in the 70th Anniversary thread as a background. I was honestly skeptical about ordering the coins due to some of the negative feedback I have read. I ordered both bronze and silver toned coins. I ordered a limited amount of the silver.
When I received the coins I was extremely happy and satisfied. The quality of the coins and the details on the coin are great. Charles Bostwick and his team at Vanguard did an excellent job as far as I am concerned. Thanks to Charles and the Vanguard Team!!
Quote from: flyboy1 on May 14, 2011, 02:08:25 PM
So, the joke or tragedy of this is that people used to complain about the Hock Shop's quality.....funny I was never disappointed.....funny what happens when there's only one supplier of insignia, isn't it!
Definitely. I'm disappointed that for a little kickback, cap makes vanguard the official and ONLY supplier. Yes, in some ways the Hock shop was lower quality. CAP should address that though, and not outlaw all alternate suppliers. Competition, in general, tends to produce better quality.
Quote from: caphistorian on May 26, 2011, 10:29:02 AM
I recently received challenge coins from Vanguard that I ordered about a month ago. These are the coins that I designed and ordered for the 70th Anniversary and the ones shown in the 70th Anniversary thread as a background. I was honestly skeptical about ordering the coins due to some of the negative feedback I have read. I ordered both bronze and silver toned coins. I ordered a limited amount of the silver.
When I received the coins I was extremely happy and satisfied. The quality of the coins and the details on the coin are great. Charles Bostwick and his team at Vanguard did an excellent job as far as I am concerned. Thanks to Charles and the Vanguard Team!!
I think waiting one month to get any item unless specifically stated on the website is POOR SERVICE no matter how you look at it. Also IF they charged your credit card and it took a month, it is likely you were billed BEFORE the merchandise was shipped. All of the mail order retailers I deal with only charge the credit card when the items are shipped (which is normally the same day of order or the next day).
RM
I just ordered a bunch of SNCO insignia for my next couple of promotions, and I am completely satisfied with the manufacturing of the insignia. The stripes are nice and thick, and the device was polished to the maximum. It's hella expensive though.
Back when the C/SNCO chevrons first came out... even before Vanguard... the pins had a tendency to break off. Broke one WIWAC.
Quote from: MIKE on May 27, 2011, 12:18:12 AM
Back when the C/SNCO chevrons first came out... even before Vanguard... the pins had a tendency to break off. Broke one WIWAC.
I noticed when putting them on my blues the other day that the pins bent really easily. Hmmm.
Quote from: RADIOMAN015 on May 26, 2011, 09:12:23 PM
I think waiting one month to get any item unless specifically stated on the website is POOR SERVICE no matter how you look at it. Also IF they charged your credit card and it took a month, it is likely you were billed BEFORE the merchandise was shipped. All of the mail order retailers I deal with only charge the credit card when the items are shipped (which is normally the same day of order or the next day).
I said about a month, it was more like 3 weeks. That was from the time it was ordered until it arrived at my front door. They did not bill my card until after they called and told me they were ready to be shipped. I checked the account the day of and it showed up at the end of the day that they shipped out. I cannot speak for previous transactions for others but they provided GREAT SERVICE for me and the CAPHF. They did a great job. No two ways about it!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Non-impressed with them recently. I ordered a number of the same ribbon, and they came in 3-4 different shades of the same color, and looked like they came from as many different manufacturers.
Sigh.....
PWK, I hate to say this, but that is not a VG issue, it is a CAP issue. There has never been any sort of solid regulation as to the color of the ribbons. That is an issue that must be worked within CAP.
As for the pins on rank and badges, I have always had that issue even with items that come from other sources such as my CIB and AASLT wings, the pins are made of a lightweight metal that is really not very metallic at all. The military had made that request a long time ago so that their people wouldn't set off alarms on metal detectors when entering government buildings or airports. I have found that putting a little bit of JB weld around the base of the pins to help a lot. Since I have been doing this, I haven't broken a single pin, I have bent quite a few though, and with the JB weld, it is strong enough that I just bend the pin back into place and have no worries about breaking the pin off.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on May 27, 2011, 02:14:16 PM
PWK, I hate to say this, but that is not a VG issue, it is a CAP issue. There has never been any sort of solid regulation as to the color of the ribbons. That is an issue that must be worked within CAP.
OK, no spec, fine. But pick
one and go with it.
Quote from: Eclipse on May 27, 2011, 02:21:17 PM
OK, no spec, fine. But pick one and go with it.
Using Federal Standard 595.
http://www.fed-std-595.com/FS-595-Paint-Spec.html
So, if I need some ribbons from Vanguard .. and I'd like them by Monday, what are the odds you think I'd get 'em with a phone order, today? Or web order? Since it says no matter how you pick the shipping, it still takes 3-5 days to deal with it?
vs.. find a smaller ribbon rack and say screw it. :)
Quote from: a2capt on June 15, 2011, 03:32:52 PM
So, if I need some ribbons from Vanguard .. and I'd like them by Monday, what are the odds you think I'd get 'em with a phone order, today? Or web order? Since it says no matter how you pick the shipping, it still takes 3-5 days to deal with it?
vs.. find a smaller ribbon rack and say screw it. :)
My situation is worse. Here's a "never again" event, on the 18th. I find out about it on the 14th. As a "new" SM, I don't have ANYTHING, or more specifically, the grey nameplate. I called VG yesterday, got bounced around their system until landing in the CAP department (and I must commend them on their FAST transfers/answers). Was told the engraver will be in TODAY, and if I placed the order last night/sent off an email to CAP@vanguardmil.com, they would try to expedite it. Now, this is an item that states 7-10 days processing time ("MAY", but sometimes that means WILL), as well as the 3 day order processing time. It does state for "urgent" orders to contact them at the email I listed above.
I did that, and plan to follow up with a phone call right now. If they actually get my "next day air" here by Friday, I'll be singing them praises for a while. If they don't...as someone in e-Commerce, I won't be surprised/pissed/disappointed.
People seem to think that processing time disappears when they pay for expedited/2nd day/next day shipments. Which of course isn't the reality.
I just ordered (and rec'd in just 3 weeks) a new polo shirt. I ordered it with name and the senior Cadet Programs badge assuming that the badge would be about the same size as the metal badge. Boy, was I wrong...the embroibered CP badge is almost 4 inches x 2 inches! While I know that Vanguard is "always right" and "never makes mistakes" I wonder what the reaction will be when I wear this shirt for the 1st time. There is nothing in the regs that mentions this oversize embroidery.
Quote from: rjfoxx on June 15, 2011, 04:35:37 PM
I just ordered (and rec'd in just 3 weeks) a new polo shirt. I ordered it with name and the senior Cadet Programs badge assuming that the badge would be about the same size as the metal badge. Boy, was I wrong...the embroibered CP badge is almost 4 inches x 2 inches! While I know that Vanguard is "always right" and "never makes mistakes" I wonder what the reaction will be when I wear this shirt for the 1st time. There is nothing in the regs that mentions this oversize embroidery.
Then it's again, on CAP for not specifying...
P.S. Say what you will of quality issues (which I still find to be less common than I had with the Hock), but their customer service is outstanding:
Quote
Mr. Hatkevich,
Thank you for your email. We will do our best to ship you order for delivery by the requested date. Please let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with.
[Redacted by Me]
CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE
1172 AZALEA GARDEN ROAD, NORFOLK, VA 23502-5612
P| (800) 221-1264 X 262 • F| (757) 857-0222
I didn't even get to the phone. Was going to look up the order number, and saw the email from them.
I just received 3 embroidered GT Master badges. Yes you can see the detail in the wreath but I am pretty sure that where the "GT" is embroidered is supposed to be a circle..... Not a semi circular wavy single point line looking thingy.... GRRRRRRRRRRR
Follow up:
QuoteVanguard Industries, Inc.
Order Number: xxxx
Date Ordered: Tuesday June 14, 2011
Detailed Invoice
Dear Michael Hatkevich,
Your FedEx Priority Overnight Tracking ID is:
QuoteOrder shipped complete
I too have waited weeks for orders (just when they started out). But this isn't the first time that VG has been AWESOME in supporting a rush order.
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 15, 2011, 08:03:16 PM
I too have waited weeks for orders (just when they started out). But this isn't the first time that VG has been AWESOME in supporting a rush order.
Yeah same for me. If you actually call them, they will go out of their way to help out. I think people forget that the entire whole of CAP orders from one company, in one location. They get backed up. They've gotten better though. They usually ship my order within two or three business days. Order on a Friday morning and it usually goes out on a Monday.
I have had issues in the past with sub par items, got some of it corrected with a kind email. However, I have never had issues with them shipping quickly. When I order a package full of items, usually a badge, and a patch or two and 15 or so ribbons every couple of months, I make my order in the evening, and I usually have a confirmation and tracking number for my package by the next afternoon, and the package in about two days, and I always pay the little extra for faster shipping. I have got to admit, I love their ability to ship quickly in the past 6-7 months, but their quality has been lacking, it has been going up, and the blue is much nicer, and the name tapes are much better in cloth than webbing. Beginning to like VG for the most part, my problems are now with CAP as they have not placed standards on colors or size or shape of ribbons and badges. I will be attempting to get something done about that when I can come up with all the color numbers and measurements for every badge and medal, and send it in a nice correspondence up the chain.
Every body, just remember, a nice word can get alot done when it needs done, better than harsh language.
You know, my issue with VG is the price. I can go into the Exchange and buy the same chevrons VG wants $12 for at the cost of about $2 for the AAFES version... and they're just as good. I looked last night while ordering some VG stuff and I looked at the SS Blue shirt... VG wants $44 where I can get the exact same shirt from the Coast Guard's UDC for about $14 and through the Exchange for about $16. Why on Earth would CAP members order some of that stuff through VG? I understand the need for a mark-up but come on. With that kind of mark-up they all must be driving new cars at VG.
VG is not selling the same DSCP shirt. They're selling the Propper version. That one costs close to the same in the exchange or MCS.
I'd like to have a complete, proper ribbon rack for the National Cadet Competition, maybe I'll call the Big V in the morning and try vs. the online thing which I couldn't get squat for confidence from.
Stuff at the exchanges is also sold at a lower markup than the commercial places.
As noted, when comparing prices, you need to go item for item, brand for brand. Otherwise any comparison is invalid.
Well sure I understand that. As I said with the mark-up I realize the need for it, and I realize the exchanges have their own mark-up, but they are not trying to rob us blind either.
I know the shirts sold at the Exchange, CGES and USCG UDC are all the DSCP version. I'm pretty sure that VG sells the same, but I could be wrong. Either way, if what VG sells isn't DSCP it still isn't double the quality to allow for more than double the price.
I guess a person just needs to use some critical thinking skills when purchasing!
Quote from: a2capt on June 16, 2011, 05:52:53 AM
VG is not selling the same DSCP shirt. They're selling the Propper version. That one costs close to the same in the exchange or MCS.
Aw ok. Just saw this after I made another comment. I don't think that the Propper version is worth that much more though. I just don't see that great of a quality leap over DSCP. Now I remember when I joined the Marines the dress shirt we were given was like paper so any self respecting Marine went out and bought the nice $60 shirts when getting to the fleet. I'll have to take another look at the Propper ones in the exchange though. I might have been wrong.
Thanks.
OK, I have a question for you guys...
Lots of you have stated that awhile back you had to wait quite awhile for CAP items from VG. Do you remember what year this was?
I may be able to give an answer for some of the delays in shipping. When I was the XO at the CGAUX D7 Material Center I was the one who did all the ordering from vendors. I had a point of contact at VG that I could call up and place orders with if I needed something quick. In 2008, I was told that VG was going through a complete reorganization to change how they run supply and do order-picking. During half of 2008 most of their supply was outside of the building in semi-traliers. So, during that time employees had to go out and find stuff and manually pull the items with trips in and out of the buildings. Now, they have a computerized system that can pull items for them from what I've been told. Considerably less time spent picking orders and getting them out.
* I still have my vendor CD that shoes me everything VG carries (well at the time they sent the disc) and I know what the wholesale cost of items are. WOW! Lets just say a lot of the pricier items are well over double mark-up.
** Side note. Vanguard actually carries a lot more items than they list on their website. If you don't see something, call them and they can tell you if they have it. I was told they only place the popular items on their website. If you happen to know the item code of an item not on the website, you can still order it on the site by just that code.
*** For those of you who want new ribbons that you have earned that are no longer made, VG may have some in stock. If they don't, they can (and will) make them for you. They have a guy who works for them who designs ribbons. All he needs is a picture of the ribbon where he can design new ribbon stock and make the ribbons for you. It'll be more than the regular $1.75, but worth it I think.
Quote from: a2capt on June 16, 2011, 05:54:12 AM
I'd like to have a complete, proper ribbon rack for the National Cadet Competition, maybe I'll call the Big V in the morning and try vs. the online thing which I couldn't get squat for confidence from.
As an e-Commerce guy, I'd hate you for calling in, and giving me 5+ item numbers that are probably similar in name.
Just place it online, and shoot them an email with the order number asking for faster processing as you need it for the NCC.
Well, yeah- I know the item numbers are of such that I could very well end up getting The Wrong Thing, thus negating the entire point. My actual idea as to ... place it online with the press of a submit button at the same time as talking with someone so that I could then get an order # if it were indeed something that could be accommodated. Otherwise I'm not going to bother because I'll just have them ordered with a supply restock order instead.
On the Propper brand shirt, the photo online certainly does look like it still, however that spec label is missing in the photo, and I know because in the past it has actually been blatantly visible as to what brand the item is, and that is what they have had on the table at various CAP events, conferences, etc., that I have seen them at.
So here's the full blow by blow.
Found out about an event I REALLY want to go to on the 14th at 2PM
At 3PM I give a call to VG, they advised that I place the order by phone/online for the grey nameplate that day,and shoot an email to make sure they try to expedite it. I was told that the engraver WOULD be in on the 15th.
I place an order around 9-10PM on the 14th.
I send the email as instructed.
On the 15th I get an email response before calling back to make sure.
By 3PM that day, I get a tracking number from VG for my whole order:
Quote1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Enforcer Number Three $1.50
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Ribbon: Earhart - cadet $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Ribbon: Encampment: Senior and Cadet $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Ribbon: Membership: Senior $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Ribbon: Service: Senior and Cadet - red $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Unit Citation: Senior and Cadet $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Ribbon: General Yeager: Senior $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Ribbon: Leadership: Senior $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Ribbon: Find: Senior and Cadet $0.85
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Award: Triangle Ribbon Clasp - bronze $0.65
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Award: 4 Triangle Cluster - bronze $1.40
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Name Plate: Senior Memberv Line 1 - HATKEVICH $3.20
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Epaulets: First Lieutenant - male $7.70
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Epaulet Shaper - small $5.90
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Badge: Ground Team $3.60
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Badge: Cadet Programs $5.80
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Uniform: Aviator Short Sleeve Dress Shirt - mal Size - f. 16 1/2 $23.10
1 ea. Ribbon Mounting Bar: 9 Ribbons - metal $3.00
1 ea. Civil Air Patrol Shirt Garter - black $6.80
Today, just over 36 hours after placing the order, the next day air package was delivered in my building.
Every item was there. Everything was good/as expected.
After hemming and hawing over it, I decided .. I'll shoot for a complete ribbon rack. I so wish the west coast warehouse stocked this stuff. It's 6 miles from me.
I put it all in the cart, and dialed, after three hand offs my call gets dropped by the person I imagine was going to answer finally, for CAP orders. I heard "He<click>".
So I called back in a couple minutes.
Three more hand offs, and when I asked about the possibility of getting something overnight, "There's a $30.95 overnight fee" and I said that the web site says $16.95, "Well, use the web site then". (.. this isn't sounding so good, I'm thinking) So I mention that it says "3-5 day processing time" and she asks for my name and says "I'll watch for it and see if we can ship it today".
So I submitted it, and lets see what happens.
Tony: I predict a 27 June arrival and incomplete.
LOL.. ya know, if it's not here Monday, that is the arrival date for all intents, since we'll return early that morning. In actuality all I need is 3 of the ribbons, to complete the set I have now, but I figured I'd order up enough to have two complete sets so I wasn't paying premium for less weight than the envelope itself.
EDIT:
Got back an email confirmation saying they would try to fulfill my request. Since they shut early on Fridays, we'll see.
Quote from: a2capt on June 17, 2011, 03:35:38 PM
"There's a $30.95 overnight fee" and I said that the web site says $16.95, "Well, use the web site then". (.. this isn't sounding so good, I'm thinking)
Wow. Horrible customer service on that. So, that must be new with the upsized fee for using the phone. I called and asked for something overnighted and it was the standard fee that they charge on the website.
Now, if I order something that's not a CAP item, and I make the order before the open of business for the day (or within an hour or two of opening), I'll get the email that it went out that day. For some reason CAP isn't a priority which is weird being that some of their highest margins come from CAP items.
What's this overnight fee?
Sure, I paid for Next day shipping, but I wasn't charged any overnight fees...
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 18, 2011, 12:28:16 AM
What's this overnight fee?
Sure, I paid for Next day shipping, but I wasn't charged any overnight fees...
Next day and overnight are the same thing... at least for shipping companies like USPS, FEDEX and UPS. Vanguard may use the terms to denote separate things, but I don't think so. Generally its just whatever a person is used to saying.
So...the complaint is that they expedite orders that you pay to get faster?
It makes total sense to me.
In our business, we ship same day (Until 1:30PM), and shoot for gone next day (at the latest).
It's quite irritating to get the "SHIP ASAP!!!!11!!1!!!!1!!!11!!!11111" messages, only to see that the buyer chose FIRST CLASS MAIL!
In my understanding, if I want it fast, I go Next/2nd/3rd/Express/Priority mail. Not the 1-5 day FCM, or UPS Ground.
It's not reasonable to try to get your order processing time expedited when you choose the slowest/cheapest shipping option.
But to the reason for CAP having a longer process time? For one, we have our own phone line, which means it's a division within the Eastern location. Chances are there are also a lot less employees dedicated to us. Again, nothing out of the ordinary.
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 18, 2011, 12:49:15 AM
So...the complaint is that they expedite orders that you pay to get faster?
No, what the both of us were saying is that VG is charging more money to make the same order over the phone as you'd pay to order online.
Now, I do understand that an online order may not be looked at for a couple days because of the processing time versus calling it in and having someone take care of it then. They may be charging the extra cost not only for the overnight shipping, but also the rush in processing. Either way, they didn't charge me that when I called and asked for it to go out the same day for overnight with my CAP polo.
So - I did, I used the web site. The lady on the phone quoted me that $31 something, and said "overnight fee". The irony was, I had a choice of UPS, FedEx, and US Mail options. The overnight UPS option was $63 via the automatic quote engine. The FedEx option was $16.98. So I picked FedEx.
For fourteen ribbons and three clasps. I only needed two of them, but I ended up ordering a second set too, just because. I'm not one of those that complains "but the item is only worth 80 cents!! why is shipping $11tybillion dollars?!?! I know the common carrier doesn't care whats in the box. They charge for a service. Period.
In the end, I did get a tracking number at about 45 minutes after they closed for business yesterday. I kinda jumped the gun, and replied back a few minutes earlier to that with "Since it appears it wasn't able to ship today, if it's possible, change the shipping to standard" and then low and behold, the tracking # came. So I apologized in a second email and thanked them for the service.
So, I ordered about 1200, and they ended up getting it out around close of business on Friday, which is 1515.
I know they can't do that for every order, but it's nice that it's possible. I never intended on ordering ribbons via telephone, that would be like ordering Chinese food over the phone, and has suck written all over it.
I just decided, if I'm going to NCC, I'd like to have the ribbons on, and the ones I have not used since RSC were thrashed more than I thought.
I know some have detailed that recent shipments of uniform items, especially cloth badges quality have improved, but I can't testify to this fact. I placed a recent order of two EMT/Paramedic cloth badges, and the quality is terrible. I would attach pictures, but the powers that be won't allow those of us who are new to do. Needless to say, the staff of life looks like a squiggly mess. I've sent them a comment and we will see if anything is done. I can't in all good conscience put either of them on a uniform.
Quote from: gregma on July 08, 2011, 06:12:00 PM
I would attach pictures, but the powers that be won't allow those of us who are new to do.
Just as an FYI, you can still do external image hosting and put pictures on here.
Just create an account on www.photobucket.com, upload your images there, and copy the [img] link below the picture. Paste it in your response and you'll have a picture in your post.
Welcome to CAPTalk, btw.
Thank you sir!
Here are the pics:
First is what is shows on the web site... (http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6590/000000cap0749bmed.jpg)
Next two are the badges I received...
(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1139/imag0150v.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8914/imag0151vs.jpg)
Thanks!
Greg
Quote from: gregma on July 08, 2011, 07:24:17 PM
Thank you sir!
Here are the pics:
First is what is shows on the web site... (http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6590/000000cap0749bmed.jpg)
Next two are the badges I received...
(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1139/imag0150v.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8914/imag0151vs.jpg)
Thanks!
Greg
That is some bed embroidery.
What I'd be curious of ... is any of this actually just NOS bookstore/CAPMart stock?
I would hope that .. well, even back then, I can't imagine someone letting the machine do that piss-poor of a job, and counting that as a job well done and calling it a day.
Quote from: a2capt on July 08, 2011, 09:38:12 PM
What I'd be curious of ... is any of this actually just NOS bookstore/CAPMart stock?
I would hope that .. well, even back then, I can't imagine someone letting the machine do that piss-poor of a job, and counting that as a job well done and calling it a day.
One thing I can be assured of, either way there is no Quality control checking before an item is checked. Or at least very poor QA. Heck if the problem is that they can't get any quality for only .85 each, I'd pay $1.85 each to have it presentable and wearable. We will see what if anything is done about the issue.
Greg
I'll put my two cents in. I ordered some Civil Air Patrol tapes for encampment and HMRS. When I got them, Not only were the letters much larger than normal, but the spacing between the lettering was so uneven that the lettering was too wide to fit my BDU pocket. I had to rip the tape off of my field jacket that was sewn there almost three years ago. :o ::) With everything else that's happened recently, Vanguard has now officially gotten on my bad side. >:(
I just received a bunch of stuff for an upcoming encampment. Our squadron handed out order forms and ordered the whole lot at the same time.
It was around 100 items from t-shirts, to wing patches, to name tapes, ribbons, etc.
We got every single item on the order, in 1 week 2 days. All the nametapes were high quality, the CAP tapes were as well. The badges were very nice, and all the patches were as they should be.
Quote from: a2capt on July 08, 2011, 09:38:12 PM
What I'd be curious of ... is any of this actually just NOS bookstore/CAPMart stock?
I would hope that .. well, even back then, I can't imagine someone letting the machine do that piss-poor of a job, and counting that as a job well done and calling it a day.
It might be - in the Grand Scheme
® they probably don't sell that many of them
Here's the last Bookstore image
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7260/emtbookstore2000.jpg)
And the current:
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6590/000000cap0749bmed.jpg)
Looks about the same to me.
I wouldn't put any stock in the color differences since you don't know who did what in either the .pdf or the online image, etc.
Note the lack of detail in both in the laurels, though in the images it looks like the Bookstore version might be a hair tighter in detail.
In general I wouldn't go by the photos for either one, since there are a ton of vendor, photo, and per-run variables.
I wonder if these are being farmed out in lots or run as-ordered on a consumer-grade machine?
Seems to me that CAP may have designed a badge so complex that it just can't be made to look good in the size we wear it on our uniforms.
I would tend to agree except that I have seen some amazingly detailed, multi-colored embroidery from patch shops and have also seen
at least a few decent looking EMT patches.
No matter who makes it, that serpent is only going to be 1-2 stitches wide, so either they nail it or it's going to look bad.
Frankly, on the ones above, I'd have more issue with the laurels than the star, they are just lumps, but they've been that way on almost
all the GT insignia for a long time.
Quote from: RiverAux on July 09, 2011, 12:57:11 AM
Seems to me that CAP may have designed a badge so complex that it just can't be made to look good in the size we wear it on our uniforms.
CAP would design something complex? Are you saying that CAP isn't simple in its ways?!
Could the problem be that NHQ isn't providing a good enough graphic?
Or, and I feel this is more likely, NHQ isn't holding their feet to the fire, as it were.
Quote from: Chief2009 on July 09, 2011, 01:59:29 AM
Could the problem be that NHQ isn't providing a good enough graphic?
Or, and I feel this is more likely, NHQ isn't holding their feet to the fire, as it were.
I doubt that. Any pro patch company is going to make a clean design for the production. Ask Eclipse.
The contract management is a known issue and a lot of people discuss that regularly.
When I was trying to get cloth IC badges from Tom, I just sent him the line drawings from the ICL, they turned out pretty well. Back then I couldn't get VG to even acknowledge my emails.
Quote from: Al Sayre on July 09, 2011, 03:19:39 AM
When I was trying to get cloth IC badges from Tom, I just sent him the line drawings from the ICL, they turned out pretty well. Back then I couldn't get VG to even acknowledge my emails.
Don't even get me started about the e-mails. At one point, I had to hunt them down IN PERSON to get MY MONEY BACK that they had, for which I had
no product in exchange.
I have never had any problems contacting Vanguard. I call the CAP number, ask for sales, and they have answered every time. They changed an order for me earlier this week.
A couple of weeks ago I ordered about $50 worth of various insignia including embroidery and engraving. They had it to me in about a week and shipped UPS 2 day air for free. The nametapes were of high quality.
I don't know when the last time you guys have ordered is but lately they have been nothing but good to me.
I tend to agree with most of you about the piss poor performance of VG when it comes to the quality of our embroidered badges. I am very pleased about the difference in the old ground team badges and the current ones that I have after I sent a very polite and detailed email that was answered the same way within one week. The wreath was much more detailed, the star was to a correct scale with the rest of the badge. The only issue with the badge that I have now is that the triangle in the middle of the badge was bigger than the circle it was in. I hope to have this corrected through another email of the same sort. I would suggest that you could try going through 1800nametape.com to order the EMT badge in the mean time, as it is not a CAP owned emblem, my local hospital uses the same badge for our EMTs.
In the next email I send I want to add a link to these threads about their quality so that they can see what we are needing fixed in their items, not just badges, but ribbons and rank as well. Though I would like to do this, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so as that would pretty much be the same as saying that everyone here has issues with you, and I don't want to air everybody's laundry.
I am not at all thinking that I am a fixall, but I know I have gotten through with them before, and I would like to try again. The more people that send them a polite email ASKING, not telling, them to fix their problems, the more likely they are to fix these errors.
As a followup to my bad quality patches. I got a very nicely written reply from Vanguard about my EMT patches. They apologized and recognized the problem. They have removed all remaining patches from stock as they all were sub-par. They will be replacing the patches once they get more stock in that look better. Looks like they do recognize problems once they are pointed out. Now to see if they follow through!
Greg
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 09, 2011, 04:33:31 AM
lately they have been nothing but good to me.
+1
Last month, I ordered a CAP tape, a name tape, a flag patch, and a wing patch. They were shipped to me ahead of the predicted delivery date; and both the name tape and CAP tape were high quality. None of the patches had any of the problems some of you have noted.
A few weeks ago I ordered a tie and tie bar. Again they were shipped to me a few days before I expected them, and I didn't have any problems with quality. In fact I found the tie to be a higher quality than I expected.
However, according to what has been posted here, YMMV.
IIRC, either here or on CS, one of the Vanguard folks actually posted a couple of responses, so I suspect they are probably at least lurking and following threads about them. I'll be the first to admit that their customer service is light years ahead of where it was when they first became the official supplier, and that in general, their quality control has greatly improved..
I orderd a couple of GT badges (embroidered and metal) from them last week so we will see when they arrive how bad they actually look. And if the embroidered ones are too craptastic, i only wasted a couple of dollars and will just wear the badge on my dress uniform.
Quote from: gregma on July 11, 2011, 04:34:18 PM
As a followup to my bad quality patches. I got a very nicely written reply from Vanguard about my EMT patches. They apologized and recognized the problem. They have removed all remaining patches from stock as they all were sub-par. They will be replacing the patches once they get more stock in that look better. Looks like they do recognize problems once they are pointed out.
Glad to see they're taking the appropriate action, but it shouldn't be up to CAP members to find the problems and complain about them. If it was the entire batch, then they've got an internal quality control problem that needs to be fixed. You would hope that someone is actually taking a look at the product they buy before filling orders with it.
Quote from: RiverAux on July 11, 2011, 10:08:38 PM
Quote from: gregma on July 11, 2011, 04:34:18 PM
As a followup to my bad quality patches. I got a very nicely written reply from Vanguard about my EMT patches. They apologized and recognized the problem. They have removed all remaining patches from stock as they all were sub-par. They will be replacing the patches once they get more stock in that look better. Looks like they do recognize problems once they are pointed out.
Glad to see they're taking the appropriate action, but it shouldn't be up to CAP members to find the problems and complain about them. If it was the entire batch, then they've got an internal quality control problem that needs to be fixed. You would hope that someone is actually taking a look at the product they buy before filling orders with it.
I have 3.5 years experience (on going) doing just that. I've also excelled in my management classes just to find out I don't really like management. If Vanguard is willing to relocate me to do the job, I'm more than willing.
Quote from: RiverAux on July 11, 2011, 10:08:38 PM... it shouldn't be up to CAP members to find the problems and complain about them. If it was the entire batch, then they've got an internal quality control problem that needs to be fixed. You would hope that someone is actually taking a look at the product they buy before filling orders with it.
I wholly agree, but sadly, reactive customer service seems to be the mantra in most companies these days.
Even when the company (any company) is 100% responsive and contrite, it is a failing of every link in the production chain when a
defective or inferior quality product reaches the customer. In a lot of cases it is another area "shareholder value" was placed before
"customer satisfaction", and the QC/QA department was shuttered or reduced.
It is also fairly common for most companies these days to rely on the fact that most customers are complacent and will accept "good enough",
so they play the odds on quality, and then let their customers do their QA for them.
Then those companies which are "social" get to play both sides of the fence - use their customers as the QA, respond immediately
when people whine on FB, Twitter, or "other", and instead of looking like junk merchants, they look like heroes, when in fact if no
one whined, the problem would never be mentioned publicly.
It's an outstanding model until the company hacks off the wrong person one too many times, or breaks somebody with a poor product.
I have placed a number orders to Vanguard for my squadron. Every time the orders have arrived within 5-6 business days and the quality is great. On one of the orders they even sent me a couple of free CAP calendars. They were really nice and very well made, all the pictures were old CAP pictures from the 40's and 50's.
My understanding is that there is two different Vanguards. East coast and West Coast. They even have different numbers to call when you place an order. I found out when placing my first order to them. The lady said I needed to call their other office and was given the number. I don't know if it is still that way.
Quote from: zonaman on July 12, 2011, 10:58:48 AM
I have placed a number orders to Vanguard for my squadron. Every time the orders have arrived within 5-6 business days and the quality is great. On one of the orders they even sent me a couple of free CAP calendars. They were really nice and very well made, all the pictures were old CAP pictures from the 40's and 50's.
My understanding is that there is two different Vanguards. East coast and West Coast. They even have different numbers to call when you place an order. I found out when placing my first order to them. The lady said I needed to call their other office and was given the number. I don't know if it is still that way.
All CAP orders are filled out of the east coast facility.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 12, 2011, 12:13:26 PM
All CAP orders are filled out of the east coast facility.
That explains that.
I still got great service and products.
Order placed, online, July 24th. 44 Items, including a custom item (blazer nameplate), that purports 5-7 day lead time.
Shipping notification July 27th.
Received, July 29th (Today). Full order shipped including the custom nameplate.
All items correct, no apparent quality issues.
10% coupon and shipping would have been free except I wanted the FedEx Ground.
Hard to find anything in the above to complain about.
Quote from: gregma on July 11, 2011, 04:34:18 PM
As a followup to my bad quality patches. I got a very nicely written reply from Vanguard about my EMT patches. They apologized and recognized the problem. They have removed all remaining patches from stock as they all were sub-par. They will be replacing the patches once they get more stock in that look better. Looks like they do recognize problems once they are pointed out. Now to see if they follow through!
Greg
3 weeks later and still nothing from Vanguard. Follow up email sent...
Greg
If it's anything like our manufacturing process, to spool up an item out of stock takes about 2-4 weeks, depending on the shop load. We also only have about 150 items.
when buying everything for my mitchell, in the comments box i asked if they could ship as fast as possible (while still recieving the free shipping from spending soo much) and by-golly after about 2 days i had a box waiting on my front porch! the quality was good, and everything that i have ordered that was bad i sent back and recieved a new one with little--->no hassle. ill admit their prioces are kinda high, but overall i dont mind it. But i must say i do indeed miss the hockshop :[