I attended the Underwater Egress Course at Lemoore Naval Air Station as part of my training throught work. We attended the full course and re-cert every 4 years. Also qual'd as a Navy class 2 swimmer. I have all of the documentation.
Will that meet the requirements for the Water Survival SQTR? Or do I have to do it in a lawn chair in someone backyard pool?
Does it meet the requirements listed here?
http://capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/education_and_training/water_survival.cfm
Affirmative. I see at the bottom where it says USCG or DoD equivelant is accepted. Great. Ill submit it then.
I always wondered if the Water Survival Course offered at the ALEA Regional Safety Seminars would qualify ...
Submit a question and see if it floats...
Quote from: Captain Morgan on March 21, 2011, 12:16:19 PM
I always wondered if the Water Survival Course offered at the ALEA Regional Safety Seminars would qualify ...
That one is pretty cheesy
Quote from: a2capt on March 21, 2011, 05:53:44 PM
Submit a question and see if it floats...
Any idea who I submit it to?
Quote from: the bottom of that page linked aboveAdditional questions and suggestions can be raised to HQ CAP/DO.
..but the National Roster doesn't have a name, just "
do@capnhq.gov"..
That would probably be appropriate to run up the Emergency Services channels, through Wing and Region to the Operations Support folks at NHQ. That way everybody sees the question and the answer.
Quote from: a2capt on March 21, 2011, 09:59:51 PM
Quote from: the bottom of that page linked aboveAdditional questions and suggestions can be raised to HQ CAP/DO.
..but the National Roster doesn't have a name, just "do@capnhq.gov"..
The CAP/CAP-USAF phonebook is in eServices on the left side, & contact information is in there, though it's marked for CAP use only. There's also a NHQ contact page on the public National Website if someone feels the need to get in touch directly for future issues.
I still recommend letting the other echelons in the organization field the question though.
Quote from: Ed Bos on March 21, 2011, 10:00:57 PM
That would probably be appropriate to run up the Emergency Services channels, through Wing and Region to the Operations Support folks at NHQ. That way everybody sees the question and the answer.
OK, Ill start with Wing ES and let it run.
You could always throw it up on the Knowledgebase. If their A-list doesn't have an answer, they farm it out to the volunteer structure, who usually give good feedback.
OK, I think I submitted it the the Knowledge base. Do you send it to the Knowledge Base manager? I didnt see any "Submit Question" icon?
I tried inputting it into the SQTR but it wont even let me do it without a CAP ID of the instructor.
I usually use the knowledgebase route myself, as I have found that "running it up the chain" usually results in opinion instead of an answer, and most of the time they just do nothing. Since the lower ones don't write the regulations, I think it's best to seek clarification from the source, not interpretation from below. After all, the channels are there and where indicated that questions/contact submissions are not out of line, so.. Why not use them?
Thats what I thought too. So is that how you submit the question....Knowledge Base Manager icon at the bottom?
Well, a knowledgebase search on "water survival" brings up a statement thats closed by the comment on that other page we looked at, and the KB entry also refers to that page, which refers any questions to NHQ/DO.
So..
http://capnhq.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/capnhq.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2218
"Ask a question..." at the top, after you create an acct./login you'll have the link, and it will send you your question submission and the replies that it gets along the way.
You can also click the "notify me" button on any topic and if they are revised, you get a hit back on it.
OK dude...I SWEAR the "ask a question" icon wasnt there earlier! At any rate.....submitted properly now. Thanks.
Quote from: ß τ ε on March 21, 2011, 03:13:05 AM
Does it meet the requirements listed here?
http://capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/education_and_training/water_survival.cfm
Interesting that the draft guidelines expect you to do a swim test in a flight suit -- which is not a required item to be worn while in a CAP aircraft. What about those golf shirt pilots?
I know I wouldn't want to swim 200 yards wearing an already inflated life jacket (well, they say you can partially deflate it for the test, but even so that would not be fun).
Backstroke and side stroke. Thats what I did. They probably want you to do it in the heaviest gear we wear. If you can do it in a flightsuit, you can definitely do it in the polo. Although, with pants, you can take them off and use them as a flotation device. But then when you get rescued, you lose massive cool points.
Quote from: RiverAux on March 22, 2011, 02:46:35 AM
Quote from: ß τ ε on March 21, 2011, 03:13:05 AM
Does it meet the requirements listed here?
http://capmembers.com/emergency_services/operations_support/education_and_training/water_survival.cfm
Interesting that the draft guidelines expect you to do a swim test in a flight suit -- which is not a required item to be worn while in a CAP aircraft. What about those golf shirt pilots?
I know I wouldn't want to swim 200 yards wearing an already inflated life jacket (well, they say you can partially deflate it for the test, but even so that would not be fun).
That's pretty long, much longer then I had to swim for USAF water survival. I wonder where they got that number from.
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 22, 2011, 01:13:34 AM
I tried inputting it into the SQTR but it wont even let me do it without a CAP ID of the instructor.
Try this:
Next to the Evaluator box is a magnifying glass icon. Click it and a dialog box should open.
Choose Other Organization at the top and put the pertinent information.
You will also probably need to upload a copy of your certificate.
On the flight suit thing, it appears that they are using the military model.
Here's the USN Aircrew swim qual to graduate from Aircrew School:
c. Swim:
(1) 1 mile in flight suit in 80 minutes or less using sidestroke, breaststroke, or American crawl.
(2) 100 yards in full flight gear (flight suit, boots, helmet, gloves, and deflated life preserver) using each of the survival strokes for 25 yards (sidestroke, breaststroke, elementary backstroke, and American crawl), followed immediately by a 5-minute drown-proofing (face down prone float).
(3) In full flight gear, tread water for 2 minutes followed immediately by 3 minutes of drown-proofing.
(4) 200 yards (50 yards each breaststroke, elementary backstroke, sidestroke, and American crawl).
(5) Jump from a 12-foot tower and then swim 15 yards underwater wearing flight suit and boots using a modified breaststroke, immediately followed by floating using trouser inflation techniques.
(6) 75-yard flight equipment swim; 25 yards sidestroke; 25 yards breaststroke; 25 yards elementary backstroke; and 25 yards American crawl.
USN Aviator water survival skills:
- WS-1 - Intermediate Water Survival Training Program overview, course introduction, and swim familiarization. You will perform a 50 yard swim screen to determine your comfort level in the water and practice survival swim strokes.
- WS-1a - Practice survival swim strokes.
- WS-2 - Swim screen. Step off a 12 foot tower and swim 100 yards demonstrating 25 yards each of survival Breaststroke, Sidestroke, Elementary back, and American crawl.
- WS-3 through WS-6 - Treading water and survival float. You will begin in bathing suit and built up to full flight gear.
- WS-7 - Abandon Ship Drill. Step off a 12 foot tower and swim 15 yards underwater while wearing flight suit and boots. Perform submerge burning oil swim, four methods of trouser inflation, and a rough water swim.
- WS-8 - Survival swim out test. The test will consist of swimming 200 yards continuously demonstrating the survival Breast stroke, Sidestroke, Elementary back, and American crawl strokes (50 yards each) in bathing suits. Perform a 75 yard swim with full flight gear utilizing the Breaststroke, Sidestroke, and Elementary back stroke.
- WS-9 - Survival swim confidence and endurance test. Swim approximately one mile in a swimming pool in 80 minutes or less while wearing flight suits.
Even thought I swim like a rock, I don't think a 200 yd swim in a flight suit is unreasonable. Regular military flight crews have a much harder swim qual.
Heh, like a rock.. I know this may sound backwards, but I've actually had an easier time when I've done this stuff under those circumstances when we've done water survival in years past as a unit activity, vs. just swimming normally, which I suck at incredibly.