I would like some opinions on the applicability of reimbursement time limits to services that are billed to CAP directly. Specifically, I am referring to CAPR 173-1, part 18 (emphasis mine):
Quote18. Payments. All payments will be made by the wing. If the payment is at the request of a unit below wing level, it must be approved by that unit in accordance with the unit's Financial Management Procedures on file at wing. All personal reimbursement requests must be submitted within 60 days of incurring an expense or receiving an invoice. Requests for reimbursement presented after 60 days will not be honored.
Hypothetically, say a CAP squadron hires a company to repair a door at its meeting location. The invoice for this service arrives a month later, is mistakingly lost and by the time a replacement is received and the payment request filed, more than 60 days have passed since the expense was incurred. The expense was not paid by a member who is now seeking reimbursement, but rather was directly billed to the CAP squadron.
Would the 60 day time limit apply to such bills for service? And if the Wing Banker refused to pay this bill, citing CAPR 173-1 part 18, what recourse would the unit have to get this paid?
Quote from: N Harmon on March 04, 2011, 04:15:33 PM
I would like some opinions on the applicability of reimbursement time limits to services that are billed to CAP directly. Specifically, I am referring to CAPR 173-1, part 18 (emphasis mine):
Quote18. Payments. All payments will be made by the wing. If the payment is at the request of a unit below wing level, it must be approved by that unit in accordance with the unit's Financial Management Procedures on file at wing. All personal reimbursement requests must be submitted within 60 days of incurring an expense or receiving an invoice. Requests for reimbursement presented after 60 days will not be honored.
Hypothetically, say a CAP squadron hires a company to repair a door at its meeting location. The invoice for this service arrives a month later, is mistakingly lost and by the time a replacement is received and the payment request filed, more than 60 days have passed since the expense was incurred. The expense was not paid by a member who is now seeking reimbursement, but rather was directly billed to the CAP squadron.
Would the 60 day time limit apply to such bills for service? And if the Wing Banker refused to pay this bill, citing CAPR 173-1 part 18, what recourse would the unit have to get this paid?
Wing banker doesn't get to deny it. It's your squadron's money. Your unit dictates when, where and how it is spent. All wing does is keep the books and cut the check.
Wrong answer - 60 days is the limit. Wing will receive a finding from NHQ otherwise.
If there are extenuating circumstances, document them and hope for the best.
Quote18. Payments. All payments will be made by the wing. If the payment is at the request of a unit below wing level, it must be approved by that unit in accordance with the unit's Financial Management Procedures on file at wing. All personal reimbursement requests must be submitted within 60 days of incurring an expense or receiving an invoice. Requests for reimbursement presented after 60 days will not be honored.
I think the key word is personal. It would seem to me that your example would not be a personal reimbursement.
A bill for services from a contractor is not a personal reimbursement. In fact, it's not a reimbursement at all. That clause would only apply if a member had shelled out of pocket for the repairs up front and needed a reimbursement of the money they laid out after the fact.
Another reason it only applies to our members? Organizations don't get to decide if and when they will pay bills for services rendered by outside contractors. The terms for accounts payable are set by the person owed money (in this case, your contractor), not the organization oweing in (in this case, CAP). Nobody gets to make up their own rules and tell their vendors "Hey, if your bills don't reach our accounts payable people by the 3rd tuesday under a full moon, we are absolved of the debt and don't owe you anymore". The response will likely be "Like heck you don't owe us anymore, we'll see you in court."
CAP owes the money. If your Wing refuses to pay the bill, involve the region commander. You don't want Civil Air Patrol and your squadron gaining a reputation in your community as a company who doesn't pay their bills on time.
Correct - the idea here is that we have people who sit on things for months and then drop a bill and expect to get paid.
Missions close, money is otherwise spent, etc. Not a perfect solution, but better than before.
There is no reason that member should be waiting two months to submit an expense.
"But I went on vacation, and then the finance guy wasn't there, and then I forgot..."
There is no reason that member should be waiting two months to submit an expense.
Period.
We live in a world of email, scanners, smartphones, and banks that now accept check images for payment.
However, if you paid the bill, and then submitted to be reimbursed, after the cut-off
you're screwed.
thanks for the donation.
Quote from: coudano on March 04, 2011, 05:37:32 PM
However, if you paid the bill, and then submitted to be reimbursed, after the cut-off
you're screwed.
thanks for the donation.
The members' reimbursement clock starts when they pay the money, not when the bill is sent / received, etc.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 04, 2011, 05:22:47 PM
There is no reason that member should be waiting two months to submit an expense.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 04, 2011, 05:49:40 PM
The members' reimbursement clock starts when they pay the money, not when the bill is sent / received, etc.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 04, 2011, 05:22:47 PM
There is no reason that member should be waiting two months to submit an expense.
Perzactly :) I have had no problem with this process...submitted in a timely manner and received reimbursement requested.
What about when a unit decides at a later date to fund something that a member bought and has not taken a write off on yet, or for that matter made an official declaration of donation.
Say the member spends several hundred dollars on parade and color guard equipment, and then the unit raises funds over a several month period and decides "hey, you know, we should cover that, or some of that.."
It's the Unit's money. The finance committee meets, agrees, but Wing won't cut a check. It's past the 60 days since the materials were purchased.
Sound's like it's not the unit's money.
Of course it's the unit's money, but the unit needs to follow the rules.
If the squadron doesn't have the money, it doesn't spend it. Pretty simple concept, maybe someone could explain it to Congress.
I have to agree with that. If two months isn't long enough, where do you draw the line?
"Remember back in the '70's I drove all those cadets to Ho-Jo's? How about some gas money?"
it's a very poor practice to ret-con a budget.
Quote from: a2capt on October 08, 2012, 11:22:12 PM
What about when a unit decides at a later date to fund something that a member bought and has not taken a write off on yet, or for that matter made an official declaration of donation.
Say the member spends several hundred dollars on parade and color guard equipment, and then the unit raises funds over a several month period and decides "hey, you know, we should cover that, or some of that.."
It's the Unit's money. The finance committee meets, agrees, but Wing won't cut a check. It's past the 60 days since the materials were purchased.
Sound's like it's not the unit's money.
Not knowing the exact circumstances, I find it hard to believe that arrangements can't be made, preferably in advance, to get a reimbursement processed.
It's semi-hypothetical, but a real world example. When the items were purchased it was because they were needed, the unit then decided that "you know what, we can actually pay for some of this stuff, we don't need a donation ... "
But the Wing Banker people say "you can't".
It's not cut and dry "Member waited too long"
Assuming they haven't issued a receipt for the donation of the equipment, it's very simple: The unit purchases the used equipment that has been loaned to them from the original owner... Nothing says you have to buy new equipment or whom you may purchase equipment from (except Vanguard stuff).
And then enjoy the audit.
There's a reason these things are not allowed, or at least frowned upon. The potential appearance of impropriety is not worth the hassle.
As long as the person who originally purchased the equipment isn't claiming the purchase as a donation, or making an excessive profit there should be no issue. What's the difference between buying something from a member and buying it from ebay? Would there be a difference if the member owned a store that sold that type of equipment? I don't see a problem as long as everyone is above board about it.
Here's an example: I have personal equipment (a generator) that I loan to CAP during hurricanes when I don't need it, but if the squadron or wing wanted to purchase it from me (because I already have all the right cables and connections for the building) and I was willing to sell it, I see no problem with the transaction. Now if I bought it for $500 and sold it to them for $2000.00 and sat on the Finance Committee and voted to approved the purchase, that would be a problem...