What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer, and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Small thing just for myself, because like it has been pointed out on CAPTALK over and over again...
A "cap medic" is anyone with a cell phone and the ability to hit 9-1-1.....cant really do much else...
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer "C spine reminder", and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Fixed it for you,
I wouldn't have a C collar as part of my personal equipment, maybe along with the backboard in the van instead.
As for what I carry. Just an assortment of Gauze (Ace bandages, 4x4s, rolls), tape, scissors, cold compress, and most importantly gloves. Fits all in pretty nicely, is inexpensive, lightweight, and is suitable for what we do.
Quote from: NCRblues on February 23, 2011, 12:25:58 AM
Small thing just for myself, because like it has been pointed out on CAPTALK over and over again...
A "cap medic" is anyone with a cell phone and the ability to hit 9-1-1.....cant really do much else...
Ok, so a cell phone can splint someone up and put them on a litter?
I am looking for a more practical approach, nothing like a nasopharengeal tube or IV or anything, things that we need to assist in transport of a subject. besides, if all we can do is dial 911, then why in the world do we have to go through first aid and CPR? Does your ground team have a litter?
Quote from: tsrup on February 23, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer "C spine reminder", and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Fixed it for you,
I wouldn't have a C collar as part of my personal equipment, maybe along with the backboard in the van instead.
As for what I carry. Just an assortment of Gauze (Ace bandages, 4x4s, rolls), tape, scissors, cold compress, and most importantly gloves. Fits all in pretty nicely, is inexpensive, lightweight, and is suitable for what we do.
No, not a C collar, a head and neck immobilizer, like this,
http://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/head-immobilizer-prolite-ref-909716hi-p-342.html
this is not a C collar, it is a head and neck immobilizer.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: tsrup on February 23, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer "C spine reminder", and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Fixed it for you,
I wouldn't have a C collar as part of my personal equipment, maybe along with the backboard in the van instead.
As for what I carry. Just an assortment of Gauze (Ace bandages, 4x4s, rolls), tape, scissors, cold compress, and most importantly gloves. Fits all in pretty nicely, is inexpensive, lightweight, and is suitable for what we do.
No, not a C collar, a head and neck immobilizer, like this,
http://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/head-immobilizer-prolite-ref-909716hi-p-342.html
this is not a C collar, it is a head and neck immobilizer.
Without a c-collar and backboard, a head and neck immobilizer are useless/meaningless and dangerous to the patient. Not to mention, it's enormous and not appropriate for a
PERSONAL first aid kit.
I have the personal first aid kit taken care of.
Pain killers
Gauze
Israeli dressing
ACE bandages
Mole skins
tourniquet (I don't know why I still have it in there, just never took it out after the Army)
Bandage tape
Scissors
Much more, I can't even remember what all.
What I am looking for is a kit of things that might be needed for the subject (NOT ME). We have a litter already that we carry out with us, what I am looking for is a kit that is a little more complete with items like;
(25) 3/4"x3" Adhesive plastic bandages
(30) 1"x3" Fabric bandages
(2) Knuckle fabric bandages
(2) Large fingertip fabric bandages
(4) 2"x4" Elbow & knee plastic bandages
(10) 3/8"x1-1/2" Junior plastic bandages
(5) 1-1/2"x1-1/2" Patch plastic bandages
(4) Medium butterfly wound closures
(4) Large butterfly wound closures
(6) 3M 2-3/8"x4" Waterproof knee & elbow bandages
(10) 3M 1-1/16"x2-1/4" Waterproof bandages
(3) 2"x3" Non-stick pads
(3) 3"x4" Non-stick pads
(10) 2"x2" Gauze dressing pads
(4) 3"x3" Gauze dressing pads
(4) 4"x4" Gauze dressing pads
(4) 3M Tegaderm transparent dressings
(1) 3M Tegaderm transparent dressing instructions
(4) 5"x9" Trauma pads
(2) 2" Conforming gauze roll bandages
(2) 3" Conforming gauze roll bandages
(2) 36" Triangular sling/bandage, w/2 safety pins
(4) Aspirin tablets
(4) Ibuprofen tablets
(10) Extra-strength non-aspirin tablets
(4) Antacid tablets
(4) Antihistamine tablets
(24) Alcohol cleansing pads
(18) Antiseptic cleansing wipes (sting free)
(3) Castile soap towelettes
(1) Triple antibiotic ointment, 1/2 oz.
(2) Burn relief packs, 3.5 gm.
(9) Insect sting relief pads
(6) Povidone-iodine infection control wipes
(1) Antiseptic spray, 3 oz. aerosol
(1) 3"x5 yd. Elastic bandage wrap, w/2 fasteners, latex free
(1) 3M 3/4"x7 yd. Clear first aid tape roll
(1) 3M 1"x15 yd. Waterproof first aid tape roll
(2) 6"x9" Instant cold compresses
(1) 4"x6" Hot/cold reusable compress
(2) Sterile eye pads
(1) Eye wash, 4 oz.
(1) CPR one-way valve faceshield, latex free
(1) 52"x84" Emergency blanket
(3) 6"x11/16" Finger splints
(2) Medium #2 safety pins
(6) 3" Cotton tipped applicators, sterile
(1) Digital thermometer
(1) Medication canister
(10) Exam quality vinyl gloves
(1) Deluxe scissors, stainless steel
(1) Deluxe tweezers, stainless steel
(2) 1 oz Hand Sanitizers
(1) Splinter-Out, 10 per small hinged plastic case
(1) 3-3/4Gx27G Rolled Wire Splint
(1) 40 pg. First aid guide
Things of that sort, and more.
I am not looking for things like nasopharengeal tubes or anything like an IV kit, just things that we are TRAINED to use.
Unless there is an imminent emergency(plane is on fire, etc) We have no business putting people on backboards. That is for the professionals to do and they will have their own gear. At the most our people might be pressed into service to carry the victim but we would not do the packaging.
Quote from: NCRblues on February 23, 2011, 12:25:58 AMOk, so a cell phone can splint someone up and put them on a litter?
I am looking for a more practical approach, nothing like a nasopharengeal tube or IV or anything, things that we need to assist in transport of a subject. besides, if all we can do is dial 911, then why in the world do we have to go through first aid and CPR? Does your ground team have a litter?
We are not required to go through CPR, and the first aid requirement is only for basic first aid. CAP is not in the business of transporting patients. We can go over all the "what if's" that we want, but in the end, unless you have someone on your GT trained in the packaging and safe transport on your team, you have the very real risk of doing more harm than good.
Our GT does not own a litter, we do have a backboard with a head immobilizer. But you can bet that we'd have to be in one heckuva predicament to ever package a patient up and use it.
But even after all that, what's the point? It's not like we'll just load up the patient in the back of the van and haul em in to town, and if the Ambulance is there, then why even bother getting in the way of the Paramedics/EMT's?
I'm all for having one though, it's better to have one and not need it, then to need it and not have it.
Not to mention it has served pretty useful for Leadership Activities for the Cadets..
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:32:28 AM
No, not a C collar, a head and neck immobilizer, like this,
http://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/head-immobilizer-prolite-ref-909716hi-p-342.html
this is not a C collar, it is a head and neck immobilizer.
Why bother putting it in a bag? Just put it on the backboard permanently (by permanently I mean leave it strapped for storage). If you really have to end up using it, do you want to waste the time to strap it all on the backboard?
I've had to deal with any number of "medics" who show up to SAREx's and missions with backboard, collars, triage kits, oxygen, etc.
They are told that anything outside the prescribed first aid kit from the GT guide stays in their car. Those that don't like that, don't play.
Your e mobilizer is worthless without a c-collar. you HAVE to use it with a C-Collar
When we did SARCOMP back in the late 80's, other teams would show up with backboards, oxygen, C collars, etc. but without the training to use them. Or they would show up with EMTs and paramedics and then bolo the written and practical first aid test because the USAF flight surgeon that set them up did so looking for a basic first aid reponse. Stick to basic first aid type equipment.
I suggest you take a look at the kits from Adventure Medical. Dr. Eric Weiss is the undisputed god of wilderness first aid and they have everything from pocket kits to everything you need to run the Amazon: http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/ Purchase according to training and utility; a 25 pound kit is going to stay in the truck on a real ground SAR activity: Unless you know in advance that there are injuries and no one else coming to help....in which case....good luck!) Eric Weiss's wilderness first aid pocket book should be required reading!
Major Lord
Quote from: Major Lord on February 23, 2011, 02:59:23 AM
I suggest you take a look at the kits from Adventure Medical. Dr. Eric Weiss is the undisputed god of wilderness first aid and they have everything from pocket kits to everything you need to run the Amazon: http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/ Purchase according to training and utility; a 25 pound kit is going to stay in the truck on a real ground SAR activity: Unless you know in advance that there are injuries and no one else coming to help....in which case....good luck!) Eric Weiss's wilderness first aid pocket book should be required reading!
Major Lord
Thank you, the Ultralight Pro, with a couple of add ins looks great, mostly just some extra gauze and the such. Thank you, that rocks.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:54:20 AM
What I am looking for is a kit of things that might be needed for the subject (NOT ME). We have a litter already that we carry out with us, what I am looking for is a kit that is a little more complete with items like;
(25) 3/4"x3" Adhesive plastic bandages
(30) 1"x3" Fabric bandages
(2) Knuckle fabric bandages
(2) Large fingertip fabric bandages
(4) 2"x4" Elbow & knee plastic bandages
(10) 3/8"x1-1/2" Junior plastic bandages
(5) 1-1/2"x1-1/2" Patch plastic bandages
(4) Medium butterfly wound closures
(4) Large butterfly wound closures
(6) 3M 2-3/8"x4" Waterproof knee & elbow bandages
(10) 3M 1-1/16"x2-1/4" Waterproof bandages
(3) 2"x3" Non-stick pads
(3) 3"x4" Non-stick pads
(10) 2"x2" Gauze dressing pads
(4) 3"x3" Gauze dressing pads
(4) 4"x4" Gauze dressing pads
(4) 3M Tegaderm transparent dressings
(1) 3M Tegaderm transparent dressing instructions
(4) 5"x9" Trauma pads
(2) 2" Conforming gauze roll bandages
(2) 3" Conforming gauze roll bandages
(2) 36" Triangular sling/bandage, w/2 safety pins
(4) Aspirin tablets
(4) Ibuprofen tablets
(10) Extra-strength non-aspirin tablets
(4) Antacid tablets
(4) Antihistamine tablets
(24) Alcohol cleansing pads
(18) Antiseptic cleansing wipes (sting free)
(3) Castile soap towelettes
(1) Triple antibiotic ointment, 1/2 oz.
(2) Burn relief packs, 3.5 gm.
(9) Insect sting relief pads
(6) Povidone-iodine infection control wipes
(1) Antiseptic spray, 3 oz. aerosol
(1) 3"x5 yd. Elastic bandage wrap, w/2 fasteners, latex free
(1) 3M 3/4"x7 yd. Clear first aid tape roll
(1) 3M 1"x15 yd. Waterproof first aid tape roll
(2) 6"x9" Instant cold compresses
(1) 4"x6" Hot/cold reusable compress
(2) Sterile eye pads
(1) Eye wash, 4 oz.
(1) CPR one-way valve faceshield, latex free
(1) 52"x84" Emergency blanket
(3) 6"x11/16" Finger splints
(2) Medium #2 safety pins
(6) 3" Cotton tipped applicators, sterile
(1) Digital thermometer
(1) Medication canister
(10) Exam quality vinyl gloves
(1) Deluxe scissors, stainless steel
(1) Deluxe tweezers, stainless steel
(2) 1 oz Hand Sanitizers
(1) Splinter-Out, 10 per small hinged plastic case
(1) 3-3/4Gx27G Rolled Wire Splint
(1) 40 pg. First aid guide
Things of that sort, and more.
I am not looking for things like nasopharengeal tubes or anything like an IV kit, just things that we are TRAINED to use.
If you need anything more than this, nobody on CT can help you:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MHR416-1.html
Seriously, take out the scalpels, and almost everything else is pretty basic stuff that anyone with basic first aid training can use.
BTW, aside from the basic first aid gear required for CAP members, I carry a 36" SAM splint, 6" Israeli trauma bandage, and basic respirator for AB pathogens protection.
You forgot the Duct tape. You can fix almost anything with Duct tape. Google "medical uses for duct tape" 150,000 hits...
Quote from: Al Sayre on February 23, 2011, 09:57:46 PM
You forgot the Duct tape. You can fix almost anything with Duct tape. Google "medical uses for duct tape" 150,000 hits...
I die a little bit inside every time I see a cadet using duct tape to "protect" a blister...
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on February 23, 2011, 10:27:22 PM
Quote from: Al Sayre on February 23, 2011, 09:57:46 PM
You forgot the Duct tape. You can fix almost anything with Duct tape. Google "medical uses for duct tape" 150,000 hits...
I die a little bit inside every time I see a cadet using duct tape to "protect" a blister...
^That would have to hurt. :o What I do is preventive. I've got one or two spots that I know gets a lot of friction in my boots, so I cover those areas with duct tape
before I go out in the field. Anyway, duct tape is required equipment for ground teams (I wonder why?), so I technically didn't forget it after all. ;D
Duct tape on the sock over the blister/hot area would do the most good.
It provides another protective layer between the boot and the foot and the tape helps reduce the friction between the boot and the foot/sock.
And it doesn't hurt when you pull off the tape! :'(
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: tsrup on February 23, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer "C spine reminder", and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Fixed it for you,
I wouldn't have a C collar as part of my personal equipment, maybe along with the backboard in the van instead.
As for what I carry. Just an assortment of Gauze (Ace bandages, 4x4s, rolls), tape, scissors, cold compress, and most importantly gloves. Fits all in pretty nicely, is inexpensive, lightweight, and is suitable for what we do.
No, not a C collar, a head and neck immobilizer, like this,
http://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/head-immobilizer-prolite-ref-909716hi-p-342.html
this is not a C collar, it is a head and neck immobilizer.
Heck, I don't even have one of those on my ambulance. Do you know how to use it?
Quote from: JThemann on February 24, 2011, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: tsrup on February 23, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer "C spine reminder", and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Fixed it for you,
I wouldn't have a C collar as part of my personal equipment, maybe along with the backboard in the van instead.
As for what I carry. Just an assortment of Gauze (Ace bandages, 4x4s, rolls), tape, scissors, cold compress, and most importantly gloves. Fits all in pretty nicely, is inexpensive, lightweight, and is suitable for what we do.
No, not a C collar, a head and neck immobilizer, like this,
http://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/head-immobilizer-prolite-ref-909716hi-p-342.html
this is not a C collar, it is a head and neck immobilizer.
Heck, I don't even have one of those on my ambulance. Do you know how to use it?
Do you have a hand litter, or just a gurney on your ambulance? You don't need one on a gurney, just on hand/stokes litters. They are pretty simple to use.
The reason you don't just leave it attached to the litter is because it needs to fit snugly to the shoulders to stabilize the whole head and neck area. That is why you don't need a C-collar with a head and neck immobilizer.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 24, 2011, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: JThemann on February 24, 2011, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: tsrup on February 23, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer "C spine reminder", and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Fixed it for you,
I wouldn't have a C collar as part of my personal equipment, maybe along with the backboard in the van instead.
As for what I carry. Just an assortment of Gauze (Ace bandages, 4x4s, rolls), tape, scissors, cold compress, and most importantly gloves. Fits all in pretty nicely, is inexpensive, lightweight, and is suitable for what we do.
No, not a C collar, a head and neck immobilizer, like this,
http://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/head-immobilizer-prolite-ref-909716hi-p-342.html
this is not a C collar, it is a head and neck immobilizer.
Heck, I don't even have one of those on my ambulance. Do you know how to use it?
Do you have a hand litter, or just a gurney on your ambulance? You don't need one on a gurney, just on hand/stokes litters. They are pretty simple to use.
The reason you don't just leave it attached to the litter is because it needs to fit snugly to the shoulders to stabilize the whole head and neck area. That is why you don't need a C-collar with a head and neck immobilizer.
False. That little gadget is designed to fit onto a long board. IE, this
(http://www.emory.edu/EEMS/Pictures/Equipment/LongSpineBoard.jpg)
To secure a patients head, which has already been immbolized by a manual stablization and a cervical spine collar.
(http://www.laerdal.com/images/w200h200/AEJBHVQJ.jpg)
So, the end result should look like
(http://www.andmedicalmall.com/images/headImmobilizer.jpg)
No trauma patient should ever be secured to a Stokes Basket without being first secured to a spinal board with appropriate Cervical Spine Precautions.
Quote from: JThemann on February 24, 2011, 04:31:27 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 24, 2011, 04:14:15 PM
Quote from: JThemann on February 24, 2011, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:32:28 AM
Quote from: tsrup on February 23, 2011, 12:29:33 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on February 23, 2011, 12:10:51 AM
What kind of medic equipment do you keep on person during ground search operations?
Only small personal kits?
Medium or large kit that will take care of more than just yourself?\
I am looking for a good kit for more than just myself, I want a couple of SAM splints, a head and neck immobilizer "C spine reminder", and things of the sort. Main thing is, pack to put it in. My old medic bag from the Army isn't quite big enough for the immobilizer and everything else that I may need to have in it.
Fixed it for you,
I wouldn't have a C collar as part of my personal equipment, maybe along with the backboard in the van instead.
As for what I carry. Just an assortment of Gauze (Ace bandages, 4x4s, rolls), tape, scissors, cold compress, and most importantly gloves. Fits all in pretty nicely, is inexpensive, lightweight, and is suitable for what we do.
No, not a C collar, a head and neck immobilizer, like this,
http://www.lifemedicalsupplier.com/head-immobilizer-prolite-ref-909716hi-p-342.html
this is not a C collar, it is a head and neck immobilizer.
Heck, I don't even have one of those on my ambulance. Do you know how to use it?
Do you have a hand litter, or just a gurney on your ambulance? You don't need one on a gurney, just on hand/stokes litters. They are pretty simple to use.
The reason you don't just leave it attached to the litter is because it needs to fit snugly to the shoulders to stabilize the whole head and neck area. That is why you don't need a C-collar with a head and neck immobilizer.
False. That little gadget is designed to fit onto a long board. IE, this
Snip
To secure a patients head, which has already been immbolized by a manual stablization and a cervical spine collar.
Snip
So, the end result should look like
Snip
No trauma patient should ever be secured to a Stokes Basket without being first secured to a spinal board with appropriate Cervical Spine Precautions.
And since you have to be a licensed EMT to apply a C-collar...
In general our ground teams should not be moving trauma patients at all (save for a real emergency like a fire) because we are not usually properly trained or equipped. Yes, I know there is sometimes the exception where "a guy in our squadron who is GT rated is an EMT and has a spine board" but save for that exceptions I will let the EMTs come to me and take care of it.
Moving someone with possible spinal injury unless you are properly trained
and equipped represents a legal issue, and legal issues are bad.