I'm on our squadrons ground team and I need some advise as to what sort of pack works really nicely. Any and all suggestions are very welcome. :)
Thanks,
G.I. Jane
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10692.msg196445#msg196445
As with any backpack, it's a bit of a pain with those chest or head high downed trees because it makes it hard to go under and the height of the tree makes it impossible to go over, but it seems to be good otherwise. The chest strap broke off at NESA this year but 5.11 sent me a new pack right away (I keep meaning to send them their old one back...).
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 15, 2011, 12:24:04 AM
As with any backpack, it's a bit of a pain with those chest or head high downed trees because it makes it hard to go under and the height of the tree makes it impossible to go over,
Common sense says that you shouldn't do either but instead go around because the tree could further collapse.
Quote from: davidsinn on January 15, 2011, 01:13:30 AM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 15, 2011, 12:24:04 AM
As with any backpack, it's a bit of a pain with those chest or head high downed trees because it makes it hard to go under and the height of the tree makes it impossible to go over,
Common sense says that you shouldn't do either but instead go around because the tree could further collapse.
I agree. For some reason there's a specific memory in my mind where there wasn't another way around... I don't remember the exact circumstances.
I suggest a small capacity pack with a flexible inner frame ( as opposed to a rigid aluminum "Kelty" style frame. ) You will probably not be called upon to bivouac on an actual search very often. An inner frame pack is much nicer to be wearing when you fall! If you are going out in cold weather, beyond visible range of your vehicle, you will need a somewhat heavier load. Whats are the conditions like where you are?
Major Lord
GTL, EMT, ETC
Why are you going into the woods with a pack on? Your pack should be in the truck, and you should only have your 24 hour gear on?
Quote from: SARJunkie on January 15, 2011, 03:07:39 AM
Why are you going into the woods with a pack on? Your pack should be in the truck, and you should only have your 24 hour gear on?
A backpack is cheaper than a vest in most cases. Hardly any of our gear is needed often enough that a backpack wouldn't be a good choice. Heck, CERT only uses backpacks any they use the stuff a whole lot more than we do.
Quote from: SARJunkie on January 15, 2011, 03:07:39 AM
Why are you going into the woods with a pack on? Your pack should be in the truck, and you should only have your 24 hour gear on?
Not every search you go on will be in and out of the truck, some people seem to be rather single minded on how search and rescue operations are performed. Not everything is right next to the road. If you are on a missing person search chances are you won't be just right next to the road. You have to get off the beaten path to find the tracks.
A good pack is very important to have for your 48 and 72 hr gear, mine are both rolled into one pack that I carry all the time. Even on training missions where we are mostly right next to the road if we get out and move more than 200meters I have my full kit on just for the fitness.
You need to keep the mindset that anything could happen, if you get too comfortable doing everything only one way you will be lost and up the creek without a paddle or even a boat.
The most important thing when looking for a pack is to make sure that it is comfortable for you.
Quote from: SARJunkie on January 15, 2011, 03:07:39 AM
Why are you going into the woods with a pack on? Your pack should be in the truck, and you should only have your 24 hour gear on?
Pack meaning 24 hr pack I assume.
Thats why you have 24 hours worth of junk in your 24 hour gear! I dont understand CAP and their packs...
Im not ragging on CAP or anything, but it seems that we are the only SAR guys that do this... All the "other" (Professional) SAR guys dont really wear a giant ALICE or Hiking pack on SAR, something small and compact, yes. but not these giant "hobo" packs...
Can anyone explain the rationale?
Quote from: BTCS1* on January 15, 2011, 03:26:41 AM
Quote from: SARJunkie on January 15, 2011, 03:07:39 AM
Why are you going into the woods with a pack on? Your pack should be in the truck, and you should only have your 24 hour gear on?
Pack meaning 24 hr pack I assume.
If I stepped out of line i apologizes. as in pack im assuming your talking about a 72 hour pack.. or an ALICE pack, or a "boyscout" hiking pack.
If your talking about a 24 hour pack, Vest , LBE, SMALL backpack then ok....
Quote from: SARJunkie on January 15, 2011, 03:28:08 AM
Thats why you have 24 hours worth of junk in your 24 hour gear! I dont understand CAP and their packs...
Im not ragging on CAP or anything, but it seems that we are the only SAR guys that do this... All the "other" (Professional) SAR guys dont really wear a giant ALICE or Hiking pack on SAR, something small and compact, yes. but not these giant "hobo" packs...
Can anyone explain the rationale?
Because we are one of the only SAR organizations that realizes that there is the chance that something could happen to you while you are searching for someone else that is lost. By something meaning loose comms and get lost... or something catastrophic that could cause you to have to sustain yourself for a couple of days.
ok, im still not following. Thats what your 24 hour gear is for. So you can survive for 24 hours. you have no business taking your 72 hour gear in the woods.
If you lose Comms you should have a lost comm plan and return to a rally point. You should also have redundant comms. What good is a SAR Team in the field id you cant talk to them?
Why would you plan on getting lost? if you dont have a compass, map, and GPS, and know how to use them then you really have no business being on a ground team.
The Sheriff, Park Rangers, Fish and Wildlife officers who do to SAR EVERY DAY and NEVER EVER get into a situation were they are on the field for more than a couple of hours and need anything more that a '24 hour' pack.
The mountain SAR teams I know carry camping gear in their vehicles. They only bring it out to the field when they know they will be overnighting. As in they are deploying out late afternoon. They also do not stay for multiple days in the field, just one overnight. Anything more and they plan for different access points - include air insertion/extraction. These are folks (volunteers) who are very good at what they do in terrain that is more vertical than horizontal and where 10,000ft is considered "low".
In general in CAP, if you lose comms, your first priority is to regain comms. Which usually means, after basic troubleshooting, going back to where you last had them.
For those of you who asked when I say gear I mean both my 24 and 72 hour gear. All these suggestions are great please keep them coming I need all that advise that I can get.
Quote from: SARJunkie on January 15, 2011, 02:52:13 PM
...
The Sheriff, Park Rangers, Fish and Wildlife officers who do to SAR EVERY DAY and NEVER EVER get into a situation were they are on the field for more than a couple of hours and need anything more that a '24 hour' pack.
Those sound like people who are more likely to live in the immediate area of the search. I've been on wing-wide searches (or outside the wing entirely) that would make it impractical to travel home every day. It seems to me having your team there first thing in the morning each morning is better than waiting for everyone to wake up and come back in. There are also some very isolated places in this country.
I'm happy for the professionals who don't have to go out for more than a couple hours, but for me, I'm going to be out there until the mission is complete or ordered otherwise.
I still recommend the Kelty Redwing for a pack.
I agree that you need a 72 hour pack. but you are not going to take it in the woods with you. When it comes time to get crew rest you will end up at a Camp, or staging area, not in the middle of the woods roughing it.
Quote from: SARJunkie on January 15, 2011, 02:52:13 PM
ok, im still not following. Thats what your 24 hour gear is for. So you can survive for 24 hours. you have no business taking your 72 hour gear in the woods.
If you lose Comms you should have a lost comm plan and return to a rally point. You should also have redundant comms. What good is a SAR Team in the field id you cant talk to them?
Why would you plan on getting lost? if you dont have a compass, map, and GPS, and know how to use them then you really have no business being on a ground team.
The Sheriff, Park Rangers, Fish and Wildlife officers who do to SAR EVERY DAY and NEVER EVER get into a situation were they are on the field for more than a couple of hours and need anything more that a '24 hour' pack.
If you don't plan a contingency for your contingency you don't belong on a GT.
If you think you will never have to take out your full gear then you don't belong on a GT either.
Oh yes, you will have your maps and compass and GPS and all your little high tech hooah, but if you don't know how to survive and know that there are things that you need to survive then you also don't belong on a GT.
I agree, we need to have the skills to do our job. But you arent going to be more than a few hours MAX from your vehicle! So why would you even consider taking your 72 hour gear with you? WORST case Scenario you have to spend one night in the woods. I have been in CAP 15+ years, been involved in over 1000 mission 36 REDCAPS and NEVER have had a GT have to stay in the woods overnight. I have never had a GT get lost.
I also work with several professional SAR teams that travel the country. None of them EVER carry more than a 'daypack' or LBE gear in the AOR with them. Why are we any different?
Yes you have to be prepared, but were not in a warzone 1000's of miles away from support. So why do you all need to carry the kitchen sink in the woods with us?
Yes you need a 72 hour pack in your vehicle that will allow you to stay at a camp or base. but you dont take it in the field! there is no need!
"24 hour" and "72 Hour" Packs are mainly just terminology. Throw in a little more food and many "woods savvy" people could stay in the field for several days with a "24 Hour" pack and indefinitely with the "72 Hour" pack. Basically, there is certain gear you should have on whenever you get out of the vehicle and plan to go into the woods, desert, wherever... The "24" and "72" hour packs like the SQTR tasks for GT should be starting points for you not the end result. As you gain experience, you will find what you need and what works and vice versa. I suggest you look in Campmoor, Cabelas, or Gander Mountain catalogs and find a relatively cheap but good quality day pack for your "24" gear and a surplus army duffle bag for a few dollars for the "72" stuff until you get some "boots on the ground" time and figure out what works for you where you live.
If you suspend your search at nightfall, are to be camped at your ending location to restart there in the morning, and ARE the several hours from your vehicle, why would you hike the several hours back, then to your camp site again? That probably does not happen often, but there are very isolated areas and I'm going with the scenario laid out here.
I've typically been in geographically smaller wings for the majority of my CAP time, all of which I have had some sort of ground team rating and I've done just under 30 missions over the last 15 years and countless SAREXs. Some of the missions have been in the bitter cold (-30F range), but none of them have been hours from civilization - except for the SAREXs.
I do have 24 and 72 hour gear, but only carry a 24 hour pack with me "out in the field." In our situation, I think that there would be very few operations that would require any of our members to be without support for more than a few hours, never mind three days. At that point, it becomes far more practical to find an alternate entry point, narrow the search using aircraft before deploying ground teams, etc.
Now that I think about it, I actually use my 24 hour pack more often for things like squadron bivouacs, etc than I do for its actual intent.
Quote from: G.I. Jane on January 15, 2011, 03:41:36 PM
For those of you who asked when I say gear I mean both my 24 and 72 hour gear. All these suggestions are great please keep them coming I need all that advise that I can get.
So back to the OP's question... You really can't go wrong with a large ALICE for your 72 IMO.
I love the MOLLE pack, very comfortable, and very modular.
The only time I have ever needed the gear in my 72 hr pack, is when I was at a mission base for over 5 days, sleeping at the FBO's while running the CAP side of the mission. Even then I only needed the change of clothes and toiletries.