So back when I was a cadet in 1692 ;) we all wore a unit citation. When I got my Curry, I was also instructed to add a unit citation with two bronze clasps. None of us ever knew why...whether it was our squadron (31296, now defunct) that got the citation, Syracuse Group (also now simply Central NY Group and covering a wider area), New York Wing or NER. We were kids, we did what we were told! In the intervening years, we got two more, without explanation. Like every other cadet, I wound up looking like El Presidente de La Republica de Banana, with recruiter, CAC, everything up through and beyond Mitchell, unit citation, etc., etc.
Fast-forward to today, 29 years later. NY Wing's history page on its website is under construction. Syracuse Group doesn't exist. My squadron doesn't exist. I found a list of Unit Citations at the NER level, but it only refers to NY Wing citations during periods when I was not a member (so that doesn't explain the five I wore as a cadet from 1979 to 1983). 39-3 says "Members are awarded the Unit Citation ribbon if they were members of the unit during the time period for which the citation is awarded."
The questions then are: A) do I *have* to wear that unit citation at all? If I'm going to wear my "highest cadet award earned" in prior service, I suppose I should. B) can I just skip it? C) would it be disrespectful to "just skip it"? D) in the absence of any unit histories, how the heck would I even go about researching the basis for awards I got in a squadron four states away and 29 years ago? (Which is why I'm leaning toward "just skip it.")
Any thoughts? I found some threads speculating on the existence of a document with Unit Citations listed, but it seemed pretty inconclusive.
ProdigalJim
If you have no documentation to support the award you shouldn't wear it.
Edited to add: Your "highest cadet award earned" is not the UCA... This is your highest cadet milestone award or achievement. i.e. Mitchell or Curry. Again, documented.
Properly processed decorations include a 120 or PA with a specific indication of who and why the award was earned.
If you don't have that, and don't even know why you were told to wear them, it didn't happen.
The regs was clarified recently to insure people understand that UC's are not a blanket award, nor are they transient to membership like an
Army award.
Thanks, this is helpful. It sounds as if my initial thought -- "just skip it" -- was the right one.
If you want to do some digging you may be able to find mention of the unit citation in old issues of the CAP Times from that time period.
Yeah, actually, that's how I managed to prove my Mitchell, since all my records are long gone. Found the CAP News for that summer, with my name and my unit. Kinda cool!
I think for a unit citation, though, it might be a bit of a needle in a haystack. And probably in the scheme of things not really worth the effort. My main concern was making sure I didn't inadvertently insult someone by skipping it when I should wear it (dissing the old squadron/group, etc.)
If you can find the issues published then I'd bet there is a good chance you'd find a record of it. They pretty regularly published them.
Years ago I saw a list of all the unit citations awarded to that point and foolishly didn't get a copy. Then I tried to get a copy from the National Historian...another big disappointment. I wish CAP did the same thing that Air Force does. In the Air Force case, everything remains documented long after a unit is deactivated for just such a purpose.
I would, however, recommend that you see if you can find someone from your old unit or even the group. A simple letter verifying eligibility would serve as the source document to wear the ribbon. If you're in the system, check with the current group and see if the records don't exist somewhere.
It is also a great idea to check old issues to check and see if it's listed.
Case in point, WNY Group now geographically covers an area that once had five different groups. When the groups merged or were absorbed, those unit citations went to the current group and the membership, until the rules changed, used to wear the ribbon with multiple devices. Now, of course, there is different criteria and most of the group only wears those citations for 9-11. Also, until recently, those other certificates used to be displayed on a wall at the group headquarters. They're now in a box in storage.
Quote from: flyboy1 on December 13, 2010, 11:48:32 PM
I would, however, recommend that you see if you can find someone from your old unit or even the group. A simple letter verifying eligibility would serve as the source document to wear the ribbon.
Somehow I assumed that a letter like that wouldn't be good enough. Maybe so...?
Quote from: ProdigalJim on December 14, 2010, 01:00:44 AM
Quote from: flyboy1 on December 13, 2010, 11:48:32 PM
I would, however, recommend that you see if you can find someone from your old unit or even the group. A simple letter verifying eligibility would serve as the source document to wear the ribbon.
Somehow I assumed that a letter like that wouldn't be good enough. Maybe so...?
Not so much a letter from another member...but maybe has a copy of the award in their member record, that might list the time and period of service. If your lucky enough it might have everyone who received the award on it as well...doubtful though
Quote from: flyboy1 on December 13, 2010, 11:48:32 PMI wish CAP did the same thing that Air Force does. In the Air Force case, everything remains documented long after a unit is deactivated for just such a purpose.
An attachment to CAPR 39-3 would be nice. Guy in my flotilla just updated his rack with the CG Restricted Duty Ribbon 'cause he found out he rates it from the enclosure in the Medals and Awards Manual.
At one time Southeast Region listed the Unit Citations listed and the time periods for members in the Region. Florida Wing did the same. But both lists have disappeared from their web sites.
Quote from: BillB on December 14, 2010, 02:33:14 AM
At one time Southeast Region listed the Unit Citations listed and the time periods for members in the Region. Florida Wing did the same. But both lists have disappeared from their web sites.
*cough* http://www.sercap.us/unitcitation.aspx *cough*
Your link resolves to the home page after a redirect. Searching with the [box] gives a picture of a ribbon. I didn't try real hard after that. ;-)
I don't think you're going to insult anyone for not wearing a unit citation awarded to a unit (that doesn't exist anymore) 29 years ago.
And if you did, that particular person has some serious issues to work out.
Also you don't "have" to wear it even if you had the documentation. Senior members, unlike cadets are not required to wear every ribbon awarded.
Tim
I got the same results, just a picture of the ribbon. The listing of periods and dates the ribbon was awarded doesn't seem to be there. Perhaps your being on SER staff, you have more access to the site, but the link you provided doesn't list the dates.
OTOH, if you have some sure memories of what it's for, and you've got room on the 'rack, it can be a great opener when someone asks "why do you have x amount of clasps on that one?" or "what do those mean?", you get a chance to interject some CAP history into the conversation and your past involvement.
I just checked, the page is only available to registered members who've been validated as being a member of SER with OPSEC and an email address that matches what is in eServices.
I'll talk to my boss to see about opening that page, among others possibly, up to public view.
WIWAC in Long Island Group, we were told to wear the UCA as well. I later came to understand that there was a misconception (or something changed in the regs, who knows?) that every member assigned to a unit that had been awarded a UCA wore it. As the regs currently stand, you must have been a member of said unit WHEN the award was made. As I didn't/don't meet that requirement, I don't wear it.
Two sides to this debate.
1) If you don't have paperwork prooving that your unit was awarded it.....then you don't wear it.
2) It is just a unit citation ribbon.....if you know that your unit was awarded....wear it. No one is going to question you....no one is going to care.