I was told to call the area to attention for my C/2nd Lt then i was told by a different Cadet Officer that you dont call the area to Attention for Cadet Ofiicers- can anyone tell me the correct way?
Could you better explain the situation? Where? Why? ....
Use your CoC...
IN GENERAL, if there's no higher ranking officer (cadet or senior) in the room, you call the room to attention. If there's a higher ranking cadet officer or any SM in the room you do not. I don't have time to find the cite right now though.
A) You're a c/SMsgt and you haven't covered this yet?
B) In my last squadron cadets called the room to attention when any Officer walked into the room, either cadet or senior. Now. If there is someone in the room already senior in rank to whoever just walked in then you do not call the room to attention.
I'm not sure what you mean by calling the area to attention. Are you outside?
Quote from: C/SMSgt Travis on December 07, 2010, 11:20:26 PM
I was told to call the area to attention for my C/2nd Lt then i was told by a different Cadet Officer that you dont call the area to Attention for Cadet Ofiicers- can anyone tell me the correct way?
http://capmembers.com/media/cms/P151_9028588D89DD2.pdf
Page 7- Finer Points, Bullet 1.
Your cadet officers should have a copy of this booklet. We get it after the Mitchell Award in our Cadet Officer's Kit.
It does not say only SM officers. It says an officer higher ranking than
anyone in the room.
cadet officers get the same customs and courtesies as any other type of officer.
of course even a C/Col is outranked by a senior member 2d Lt
There is usually an exception to "call the room to attention" rule for in-progress classes or briefings. It's usually at the instructor's/briefer's discretion and depends on who walks in.
Quote from: ol'fido on December 07, 2010, 11:59:41 PM
depends on who walks in.
If someone with stars walks in I'm still calling it >:D.
C&C 101 room is called to attention unless it is a classroom environment. Also if there is someone equal to or senior in the room then it is not called. The area is called to attention upon an officer being noticed unless there is a work detail being performed then the supervisor will render appropriate customs and courtisies. In my current unit we stand when a SNCO or officer walks into the room unless there is someone equal too or senior present.
With that suitably answered, here's something to expand on it. Assuming that the person walking into a room is the highest ranking, would you call the room to attention for a chaplain? Normally, a chaplain is addressed as such and not by their rank, so does that mean that you don't call a room to attention for them?
I personally would think yes, you do, but what do those of you with more experience than me say?
Quote from: jeders on December 08, 2010, 02:41:18 PM
With that suitably answered, here's something to expand on it. Assuming that the person walking into a room is the highest ranking, would you call the room to attention for a chaplain? Normally, a chaplain is addressed as such and not by their rank, so does that mean that you don't call a room to attention for them?
I personally would think yes, you do, but what do those of you with more experience than me say?
Generally a Chaplain would tell you to cut it out, but he is still an officer and is afforded the same respect as all other officers. If one Chaplain tells you to cut it out and "Don't do that to me" then just stop doing it for that one Chaplain, do it for all others until the same situation appears again.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on December 08, 2010, 02:45:27 PM
Quote from: jeders on December 08, 2010, 02:41:18 PM
With that suitably answered, here's something to expand on it. Assuming that the person walking into a room is the highest ranking, would you call the room to attention for a chaplain? Normally, a chaplain is addressed as such and not by their rank, so does that mean that you don't call a room to attention for them?
I personally would think yes, you do, but what do those of you with more experience than me say?
Generally a Chaplain would tell you to cut it out, but he is still an officer and is afforded the same respect as all other officers. If one Chaplain tells you to cut it out and "Don't do that to me" then just stop doing it for that one Chaplain, do it for all others until the same situation appears again.
+1. I know a few that have said "don't do this for me." But, always make sure you show proper respect to them. They are just as much an officer as the new 2Lt over in the corner.
Forgot the other exception...the chow hall...usually the headcount or the first person to see someone like the Brigade Commander walk in will sing out a hearty "At Ease". Everybody kind of pauses for a second then continues on. Also, don't call the latrine to attention. I have seen that more than once.
If you are talking about calling an area to attention, are you talking about outdoors when you would call Group Attention? If you are calling it indoors you would call room attention.
When i'm outside and my C/2nd Lt walks outside should i call it to attention i normally do this but i did it for another C/2nd Lt and it was just me and some other Sergeants outside and he said only call area attention outside for Squadron,Wing,and National Commanders. thats what got me confused
Quote from: C/SMSgt Travis on December 14, 2010, 11:38:27 AM
When i'm outside and my C/2nd Lt walks outside should i call it to attention i normally do this but i did it for another C/2nd Lt and it was just me and some other Sergeants outside and he said only call area attention outside for Squadron,Wing,and National Commanders. thats what got me confused
Show that c/officer Respect on Display. It says ALL officers of higher rank- that means Senior Members at least, and maybe cadets.
Quote from: C/SMSgt Travis on December 14, 2010, 11:38:27 AM
When i'm outside and my C/2nd Lt walks outside should i call it to attention i normally do this but i did it for another C/2nd Lt and it was just me and some other Sergeants outside and he said only call area attention outside for Squadron,Wing,and National Commanders. thats what got me confused
Not just commanders, but rather any Cadet Officer or Senior Member Officer.
Following that C/2d Lt's statement, you wouldn't even call the room/area to attention for a C/Lt Col or C/Col. Next time you see one, go ahead and don't show him/her any courtesy and let me know how that goes. (Actually, don't do this, but I hope the point was made)
Quote from: abdsp51 on December 08, 2010, 01:23:23 AM
C&C 101 room is called to attention unless it is a classroom environment. Also if there is someone equal to or senior in the room then it is not called. The area is called to attention upon an officer being noticed unless there is a work detail being performed then the supervisor will render appropriate customs and courtisies. In my current unit we stand when a SNCO or officer walks into the room unless there is someone equal too or senior present.
You call the room to attention for a SNCO?
You would call a room to At-ease for an NCO.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on December 14, 2010, 04:59:29 PM
You would call a room to At-ease for an NCO.
Well... There isn't any CAP official protocol for this.
However, not necessarily a bad practice or idea- just clarify that it isn't official.
I didn't know it wasn't a CAP custom, we did it as cadets and our cadets do it now. I know it is a military wide practice, except I do not know for the NAVY and CG.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on December 14, 2010, 08:56:58 PM
I didn't know it wasn't a CAP custom, we did it as cadets and our cadets do it now. I know it is a military wide practice, except I do not know for the NAVY and CG.
I knew it was common practice when I was in the Army and even then it was primarily for the 1SG or SGM. I can't recall ever doing it during my Navy days
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on December 14, 2010, 04:59:29 PM
You would call a room to At-ease for an NCO.
I have NEVER seen this, EVER.
Quote from: SarDragon on December 14, 2010, 09:33:32 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on December 14, 2010, 04:59:29 PM
You would call a room to At-ease for an NCO.
I have NEVER seen this, EVER.
I've seen it more times than I can count, and Is can cant purdy hi.
Quote from: SarDragon on December 14, 2010, 09:33:32 PM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on December 14, 2010, 04:59:29 PM
You would call a room to At-ease for an NCO.
I have NEVER seen this, EVER.
Ditto. However, every time the Bgde/CC came into the DFAC while I was in the sandbox, the DFAC was called to "At Ease" - which I thought was a tad odd. But hey, it was the Army.. :)
WIWAC we called the room to attention when an officer superior to those present entered, period, Cadet and Senior.
Haven't seen it done here in FLWG, which I think is odd/a shame/distasteful, but I've thus far chosen not to make a stink about it, especially given how resistant people are to other aspects of C&C and adherence to certain regs.
QuoteWIWAC we called the room to attention when an officer superior to those present entered, period, Cadet and Senior.
This is how IL wing does it, every squadron. Cadets learn to develop good SA watching the doors for surprises.
Quote from: nesagsar on December 15, 2010, 04:29:13 PM
This is how IL wing does it, every squadron.
How do you know that?
As a side note, officers walking into a room shouldn't really be "surprises."
Quote from: JoeTomasone on December 14, 2010, 10:52:45 PM
Haven't seen it done here in FLWG, which I think is odd/a shame/distasteful, but I've thus far chosen not to make a stink about it, especially given how resistant people are to other aspects of C&C and adherence to certain regs.
This is something we're starting to work on in Group 3.
In a roomful of officers only, whenever the commander enters a room, it's customary to call 'Ladies and gentlemen, the commander!' instead of popping off 'Room, ten-hut!'
I have a standard rule, you either observe all C&C or none at all. You don't pick parts of any regulation/manual and practice only what you want to. In CAP we observe and practice military customs and courtesies, all of them. I think we need to get back to making common courtesies common again. Saluting, standing at attention when talking to an officer and parade rest while talking to NCOs, Saluting officers even while passing, and one of the most important, to me that is, saluting the U.S. Flag.
Quote from: DBlair on December 15, 2010, 05:46:48 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on December 14, 2010, 10:52:45 PM
Haven't seen it done here in FLWG, which I think is odd/a shame/distasteful, but I've thus far chosen not to make a stink about it, especially given how resistant people are to other aspects of C&C and adherence to certain regs.
This is something we're starting to work on in Group 3.
That would be refreshing. I had recommended it when I was on the Group Staff, but it fell on deaf ears.
Quote from: JoeTomasone on December 15, 2010, 06:53:54 PM
Quote from: DBlair on December 15, 2010, 05:46:48 PM
Quote from: JoeTomasone on December 14, 2010, 10:52:45 PM
Haven't seen it done here in FLWG, which I think is odd/a shame/distasteful, but I've thus far chosen not to make a stink about it, especially given how resistant people are to other aspects of C&C and adherence to certain regs.
This is something we're starting to work on in Group 3.
That would be refreshing. I had recommended it when I was on the Group Staff, but it fell on deaf ears.
Wow, when did it stop? When my son was on group staff in then Group 8, it was done at group and squadron level. Granted when he moved to wing staff, most of the settings were at like conferences where during classrooms it was not done, but I believe still should have been done with minimal interruption of the class.
(Don't mind me...just stirring a bit.) :angel:
It should be noted that the "ten-hut" is located between the nine-hut and the eleven-hut. I've been out for over 24 years, and "huts" were aggressively corrected at every Army leadership school even then. (All together now... "We're not the Army!")
The proper command was, and is: "(element size), atten-SHUN!"
--Senty
Quote from: Senty7 on December 15, 2010, 07:50:40 PM
(Don't mind me...just stirring a bit.) :angel:
It should be noted that the "ten-hut" is located between the nine-hut and the eleven-hut. I've been out for over 24 years, and "huts" were aggressively corrected at every Army leadership school even then. (All together now... "We're not the Army!")
The proper command was, and is: "(element size), atten-SHUN!"
--Senty
All together now... "
We're not the Army!"
Said as "
Tench-hut" during CAP D&C.
:angel:
:angel: Cite, please?
All together now... "We're not the Army!"
:angel: But you have Ranger Teams (see parallel thread cooking along elsewhere on this board).
V/R, and best regards to all,
--Senty
Quote from: Senty7 on December 15, 2010, 08:12:14 PM
:angel: Cite, please?
AFMAN 36-2203, Page 16, Figure 2.2 (bottom left corner)
^Thank you.
Potentially conflicted by the same publication, paragraphs 2.6.4 and 3.3.2.
Quote from: Senty7 on December 15, 2010, 08:37:53 PM
^Thank you.
Potentially conflicted by the same publication, paragraphs 2.6.4 and 3.3.2.
They're said differently than they're spelled. I think it has to do with ease of reading the manual.
Personally I can't stand when people call tench hut. Why would any one want to yell fish house?
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on December 15, 2010, 09:06:26 PM
Personally I can't stand when people call tench hut. Why would any one want to yell fish house?
'Cause that's how the AF does it... :)
^Well, move out smartly and carry on, then... :)
Quote from: spaatzmom on December 15, 2010, 07:02:20 PM
Wow, when did it stop? When my son was on group staff in then Group 8, it was done at group and squadron level. Granted when he moved to wing staff, most of the settings were at like conferences where during classrooms it was not done, but I believe still should have been done with minimal interruption of the class.
Certainly by 2006 when I got active in FLWG.