Hello All,
I am a current Maryland cadet who went to Hawk Mountain Ranger School when I was a PA cadet. Now that I have moved to the Maryland Squadron, can someone give me an idea about how to wear my squadron patch and HMRS patch. It is my understanding that PAWG breaks the rules on the wearing of the HMRS patch, and I do not intend to start an argument. I am just trying to find out where on the uniform the patches are placed. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the HMRS patch is on the left breast pocket, and the squadron is on the right? Along with the wing on the left shoulder, and the reverse American flag on the right?
Thanks for the help.
Are you talking about the circular patch? I think it would be kosher to wear that one on the left breast pocket. However, you can't wear the "Ranger" tab, period.
By "Ranger Tab" do you mean the Search and Rescue Patch with LL on it? If so, I was not informed that we could not wear them, but then again, I was out of the loop for awhile.
I think he means Ranger grade, like 1st Class and such.
So I am not allowed to wear my "Ranger 3rd class" tab above my civil air patrol tape, but I am allowed to wear the search and rescue patch? If so, where do I put the search and rescue patch?
The Ranger tab is the little rectangular patch that looks something like this:
(http://www.pawingcap.com/hawk/graphics/2ndclass.jpg)
It is NOT authorized for wear.
If the SAR LL patch looks something like this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Hawk_Mountain_Ranger_School_LL_Patch.gif/96px-Hawk_Mountain_Ranger_School_LL_Patch.gif)
Then you may wear it on the left breast pocket.
Thanks to everyone who replied for clearing this up.
Not a problem. ;)
Keep in mind that if your Wing/CC has authorized it, certain NCSA patches may be worn in place of a Wing patch. In FLWG, the HMRS 'LL' patch is authorized as one of those, so check to see if your Wing has likewise authorized it.
Quote from: DBlair on November 21, 2010, 08:38:41 PM
Keep in mind that if your Wing/CC has authorized it, certain NCSA patches may be worn in place of a Wing patch. In FLWG, the HMRS 'LL' patch is authorized as one of those, so check to see if your Wing has likewise authorized it.
Huh. I thought only PAWG did that.
Oh yeah, FLWG lets you wear an NCSA patch in place of the wing patch. Forgot about that.
Quote from: HGjunkie on November 21, 2010, 08:41:20 PM
Quote from: DBlair on November 21, 2010, 08:38:41 PM
Keep in mind that if your Wing/CC has authorized it, certain NCSA patches may be worn in place of a Wing patch. In FLWG, the HMRS 'LL' patch is authorized as one of those, so check to see if your Wing has likewise authorized it.
Huh. I thought only PAWG did that.
Oh yeah, FLWG lets you wear an NCSA patch in place of the wing patch. Forgot about that.
A slight drift in topic, but this is copied from a policy letter from the FLWG/CC authorizing it. Let me know if you'd like me to email it to you.
Quote
As a result of National Board action, certain school/activity patches may be worn on the left shoulder. The following patches are approved for wear ½" below the left shoulder seam:
a. National Emergency Service Academy
b. National Flight Academy
c. Cadet Officer School
d. National Honor Guard Academy
e. Hawk Mountain Ranger School
f. Blue Beret
g. Air Force Space Command Familiarization Course
h. Pararescue Orientation Course
Thanks, could you e-mail it to me? I can't seem to find it on the Wing website... ???
Without opening the whole debate about Hawk bling, the proper place to ask the question would be at your unit.
How the National Board ruling is interpreted by members of this forum is not important. How they are interpreted by your chain of command is.
I'm a Maryland Cadet and I went to HMRS in 2009. You cannot wear ranger tabs at all no ifs ands or buts. The Search and Rescue patch s not worn on the left shoulder, that is where the Maryland Wing patch would go. The SAR patch goes where all other NCSA patches go, centered on the left breast pocket.
Also the Squadron Patch is worn centered on the right breast pocket.
Posts merged. MIKE
It is a bit difficult telling cadets that ranger tabs are not authorized with BDUs when they see them worn by high-ranking CAP members in the Volunteer magazine.
In fact, seeing that causes myself to reconsider if I was 100% correct in saying they were not authorized.
Quote from: N Harmon on November 28, 2010, 05:52:41 PM
It is a bit difficult telling cadets that ranger tabs are not authorized with BDUs when they see them worn by high-ranking CAP members in the Volunteer magazine.
In fact, seeing that causes myself to reconsider if I was 100% correct in saying they were not authorized.
Just because someone higher than you is doing it doesn't mean it is correct. The regs don't support it.
Quote from: HGjunkie on November 28, 2010, 06:04:42 PMJust because someone higher than you is doing it doesn't mean it is correct. The regs don't support it.
True. It generates some issues.
One is: Can you really trust someone that high rank if it's a case of them just not knowing publications? (Be it just being out of date, or didn't bother to look it up.)
Two: Can you trust someone that high rank if it's a case of they know better, but don't care?
"Do as I say, not as I do" is a lousy leadership style. Whether ignorance or not, it's a problem.
Anyway, starting to think that some our extraneous patches ought to go away. I'll be happy when the flag officially comes off (and not for the reasons that people probably think). Clean, simple, and ready to work should be what our utility uniforms should be about.
Quote from: N Harmon on November 28, 2010, 05:52:41 PM
It is a bit difficult telling cadets that ranger tabs are not authorized with BDUs when they see them worn by high-ranking CAP members in the Volunteer magazine.
In fact, seeing that causes myself to reconsider if I was 100% correct in saying they were not authorized.
+1
I facepalmed after a double-take....
Quote from: HGjunkie on November 28, 2010, 06:04:42 PM
Just because someone higher than you is doing it doesn't mean it is correct. The regs don't support it.
A very valid point.
I don't think the flag should come off until every one comes home.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on November 29, 2010, 03:09:14 AM
I don't think the flag should come off until every one comes home.
When who comes home? I didn't know that our CAP uniforms were being used as a homage to deployed troops. Perhaps we should have a POW/MIA patch too, then?
Maybe it's the fact we're the Auxiliary of an armed service branch of the US and that we should respect/support/stand behind our troops overseas.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 29, 2010, 03:15:34 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on November 29, 2010, 03:09:14 AM
I don't think the flag should come off until every one comes home.
When who comes home? I didn't know that our CAP uniforms were being used as a homage to deployed troops. Perhaps we should have a POW/MIA patch too, then?
When was the patch implemented on the uniform? I thought it was shortly after the rest of the military did in keeping with tradition. Military only wears the flag during wartime.
^That is also a valid point
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 29, 2010, 03:15:34 AM
When who comes home? I didn't know that our CAP uniforms were being used as a homage to deployed troops. Perhaps we should have a POW/MIA patch too, then?
Besides, if I were told to put a POW/MIA patch on my uniform to pay homage to those lost, [darn] skippy I would!
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on November 29, 2010, 03:18:23 AM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 29, 2010, 03:15:34 AM
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on November 29, 2010, 03:09:14 AM
I don't think the flag should come off until every one comes home.
When who comes home? I didn't know that our CAP uniforms were being used as a homage to deployed troops. Perhaps we should have a POW/MIA patch too, then?
When was the patch implemented on the uniform? I thought it was shortly after the rest of the military did in keeping with tradition. Military only wears the flag during wartime.
^That is also a valid point
1. The flag patch is the last remaining vestage from HWSRN. Not counting the CSU as it is going away relatively soon.
2. The AF does not wear the flag on their bdus/abus.
3. The flag has been worn on the flightsuit by all services and by CAP for a long time. Regardless of our 'war' or 'peace' status.
Quote from: arajca on November 29, 2010, 03:27:30 AM
3. The flag has been worn on the flightsuit by all services and by CAP for a long time. Regardless of our 'war' or 'peace' status.
Not on the BDU though. I wasn't aware that USAF didn't wear the flag. That is kind of odd.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on November 29, 2010, 03:29:24 AM
Quote from: arajca on November 29, 2010, 03:27:30 AM
3. The flag has been worn on the flightsuit by all services and by CAP for a long time. Regardless of our 'war' or 'peace' status.
Not on the BDU though. I wasn't aware that USAF didn't wear the flag. That is kind of odd.
It's seems, to me, that the Army is the only branch that does, which would make them "odd." ;)
But seriously, I would think that someone, who simply by being a member of a military auxiliary, probably supported 'our troops' without having to sew the patch on. There doesn't need to be a visual representation of everything we support on our uniforms and wearing or not wearing an American Flag doesn't make us any more or less patriotic.
Quote from: manfredvonrichthofen on November 29, 2010, 03:18:23 AM
When was the patch implemented on the uniform?
It was authorized on the fatigue jacket for the US Bicentennial back in 1976. Other than the right sleeve, no other location, size or color was specified. I found one at a police supply shop that would have made a Normandy drop vet nostalgic - something like 4"x6" in full color ;D
After 1976 you could not sew a new one on to a jacket but we were authorized to continue wearing existing flags until the jacket was replaced. Mine lasted until the OG-107's were retired. ;)
One curiosity is why does the flag on the right sleeve mean that you can't wear any patches on the sleeve with the flag?
Quick question does anybody have a good "free" Squadron Patch or Patch creation software? I have tried Power Point, not working for the curved scroll lettering required. Any ideas on good easy to use software.
Quote from: Earhart1971 on November 30, 2010, 12:18:28 AM
Quick question does anybody have a good "free" Squadron Patch or Patch creation software? I have tried Power Point, not working for the curved scroll lettering required. Any ideas on good easy to use software.
If you find a good outline of a patch that you want, you can do a good majority of it in programs as simple as paint. Otherwise draw it on paper and scan it.
Quote from: Earhart1971 on November 30, 2010, 12:18:28 AM
Quick question does anybody have a good "free" Squadron Patch or Patch creation software? I have tried Power Point, not working for the curved scroll lettering required. Any ideas on good easy to use software.
The Gimp. It's like photoshop except free.
Not having a problem with "Art" part of the patch, its the Lettering of the scrolls.
I do all my type manipulation in Adobe Illustrator. I'm not sure what Gimp has in the way of that feature. In general, it's better to work with individual characters in the scroll, instead of messing with a word, or the entire string.
I've never heard of GIMP, even though I use Ubuntu. I just downloaded it and it looks really good. I am very pleased.
For most users the GIMP is more than enough, and the price is certainly right.
I don't think it has the same text manipulation abilities as PS, though. As noted by SARDRAGON, you almost always
have to break the text up into multiple pieces, with no hard-fast rules as to the breaks.
(http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/556408962/il245_trans.gif)
In this case, as I recall, the "S", "G" and "22" were done as separate text layers, and while it is acceptable, even after a
LOT of mucking it still isn't perfect. The Group side looks fine, but the ILLINOIS side always looks a bit off to me. Sometimes
it is just a bad random concentration of letter shapes and no matter what you do it will never be perfect.
All the lettering seems to flow really nicely with the scroll. That is not very common.