Does anybody have any ideas for a group level sar competition?
Back in the day, I participated in a few SAR Competitions and I've found that a lot of it depends on the depth or scale you wish to have the SAR Competition. Would it be only GT/UDF stuff, or on a much larger scale? Would it be Cadets, SMs, or Cadet/SMs both competing together? In theory, it could be held as a Group activity, but it all depends on the specifics.
Well right now I'm just brainstorming for some ideas to bring to my group CAC.I've been reading how NER had a massive SARCOMP that including SM/Cadets.But since this is the first time something of this nature were to come into discussion I was thinking of something aimed more towards cadets.
Quote from: Marmolejo on November 15, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
I've been reading how NER had a massive SARCOMP that including SM/Cadets.
Ah, the memories. :)
As for a Cadet SAR Comp, this is something you can certainly do at the Group level. I've seen this done as a weekend bivouac with units sending teams or random members putting together teams (either before the event or at the event), and then events would include various GT/UDF skills, etc. A lot of it also depends on whether you have enough GTM trained Cadets.
I was thinking of possibly a getting mission number to make it sort of a Comp/training for cadets who need to be GTM qualified.Some ideas I had for events were like litter carries,orienteering,ELT searches,and a written test based on the task book for GTM 3
Quote from: Marmolejo on November 16, 2010, 12:05:44 AM
I was thinking of possibly a getting mission number to make it sort of a Comp/training for cadets who need to be GTM qualified.Some ideas I had for events were like litter carries,orienteering,ELT searches,and a written test based on the task book for GTM 3
First off, either make it training, or make it a competition. If you try to mix the two you'll get low quality of both.
Second, if you really want to have a group or higher level SAR/GT Comp. then you might try contacting the TXWG ES Training Officer Lt Col Brooks Cima (brookscima@gmail.com). Also poke around the ES section of the TXWG (http://txwgcap.org/content/staff_support_ops_es.htm) website and look at the GT Comp OpsPlan (http://txwgcap.org/pdfs/Texas%20Wing%20Ground%20Team%20Challenge%20Operations%20Plan%202010.pdf).
I hope that helps at least a little, and good luck on getting it going.
It is very possible to run a SAR competition at the Group level. Since you have a large area in the western part of your Group to hold such an activity that is ideal for SAR. Also your Group Commander has been involved in SAR Competitions, so the CAC making a presentation to him might produce the desired activity.
However I would make it a multi group competition including the Group just north of you and the Group on the west coast. Considering it as a Wing activity would be a poor idea in that cadets and senior from your area would be at a disadvantage if it was held in say, the Camp Blanding area. And cadets from north Florida would be at a disavantage in the south Florida area.
Quote from: Marmolejo on November 15, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
Well right now I'm just brainstorming for some ideas to bring to my group CAC.I've been reading how NER had a massive SARCOMP that including SM/Cadets.But since this is the first time something of this nature were to come into discussion I was thinking of something aimed more towards cadets.
Not within the scope of the CAC's duties.
...and as long as the competition does not in any way reinforce the ideals that the actual thing is anything that even starts to be a competition. Everyone in the field should work together, when you have self deploying people, people who work by themselves and don't share any intel, yet ask you for yours and go in and "swoop" the target..
Quote from: lordmonar on November 16, 2010, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Marmolejo on November 15, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
Well right now I'm just brainstorming for some ideas to bring to my group CAC.I've been reading how NER had a massive SARCOMP that including SM/Cadets.But since this is the first time something of this nature were to come into discussion I was thinking of something aimed more towards cadets.
Not within the scope of the CAC's duties.
+1 - I was hoping someone else would make that comment first.
It is the Cadet
Advisory Committee
...not the
Cadet
Activity Committee
The role is to discuss and bring forward the field's opinion on various issues affecting cadets and offer solutions.
At most the role here would be to poll the CAC as to gauge rank-and-file interest, then draft a memo to the respective commander suggesting this as an activity. CAC is not an operational entity.
Next question that always follows:
"But what if there isn't anything to discuss?"
Meeting adjourned.
And how do you expect cadets to advise if they don't research it first? If it has anything to do with the cadet program, the CAC should come up with the ideas. When did the cadet say he was going to get the Group CAC to run this? I must have missed it. Obviously the CAC was going to reccomend this to the Group Commander AFTER determining is it was even possible. In Florida Wing for example, Group CAC's HAVE sponsored activities, with the Group Commanders OK.
Quote from: BillB on November 16, 2010, 08:38:23 PM
And how do you expect cadets to advise if they don't research it first? If it has anything to do with the cadet program, the CAC should come up with the ideas. When did the cadet say he was going to get the Group CAC to run this? I must have missed it. Obviously the CAC was going to reccomend this to the Group Commander AFTER determining is it was even possible.
That's just it, isn't - the SUI requirement at the wing level that a CAC exists, somehow translates in some people's minds as a mandate to self-initiated activity. "We should do stuff." The CAC's reason for existence is advising their respective echelon's commander on issues the commander brings to them, or that the unit reps bring up stream, not autonomously coming up with activities, or staffing the cadet portion of the wing conference, nor anything else active. They are an advisory body only.
Quote from: BillB on November 16, 2010, 08:38:23 PM
In Florida Wing for example, Group CAC's HAVE sponsored activities, with the Group Commanders OK.
Yes, you are correct, many wings get this wrong, - thus the disenchantment with the CAC in general, and the disjointed nature of the execution. That a commander buys into it doesn't make it right.
Eclipse
You need to reread 52-16 Chap 3, par 2 and 3. The CAC goes to the commander with ideas, the Commander doesn't go to the CAC.
Also read CAPP52-19 the first couple of pages.
I have a long history involving CAC since I and two other former cadets wrote the original CAC regulation back in the 1950's. I also served as Senior Advisor to the National CAC one year.
Regularly the CAC comes up with ideas after they research them and make recommendations to their respective Commanders. That's not to say the Commander might reject the ideas, that's his responsibility. But if this cadets wants to see if there is a possibility to bring to the Group CAC the idea of a SAR Competition and let the CAC research it and make a recommendation to the Commander that falls under the duties of a CAC rep according to the regulation.
Glad to walk that route - the CAC is an advisory body regarding the Cadet Program, which as is pointed out here on a regular basis, does not actually include Emergency Services. Cadets are involved in ES, but ES is not a part of the CP curriculm, per se.
So as Lord says, researching a SARComp is out of scope.
The total proper scope here would be a memorandum from the CAC indicating that cadets below that echelon would like to
participate more in ES, and one suggestion would be a competition of some kind. End of memo.
From there, the commander may or may not appoint members, including cadets, to start planning one, but that would not be a proper
function for the CAC as a body.
I was on the '85, '86, '87, and '88 Illinois Wing GT at GLR SARCOMP. I enjoyed the SARCOMP program and I think that it fosters some good training. The only thing you have to worry about is that SARCOMP will exercise some areas of GT skills but not all so you need to make sure your competitions don't stick with the same old scenarios every year. Also, there is a tendency to train for the competition and not what happens on real missions. "Gaming" can deteriorate what you are trying to accomplish. The reason that I was told that the region and national SARCOMPs went away was financial but I was in the military when this happended so someone else may know the real deal.
I am staying out of the CAC part of this debate.
BTW, I got the stuff from Paul, Bob. Thanks.
Eclipse
I can agree with that
Quote from: BillB on November 16, 2010, 11:36:04 PM
Eclipse
I can agree with that
Wow - didn't see that coming! :D
I do not have any documentation, but NYWG hosted its first annual SARCOMP this past June. It went very well, I will see if I have the ops plan somewhere. My team (NYC) took third!
Quote from: BTCS1* on November 17, 2010, 04:28:39 AM
I do not have any documentation, but NYWG hosted its first annual SARCOMP this past June. It went very well, I will see if I have the ops plan somewhere. My team (NYC) took third!
I would really appreciate it
I would really appreciate it too!
I thought CAC was Cadet Advisory Council, not Cadet Advisory Committee. ???
Or Cadet Activity Council/mittee.
Quote from: ol'fido on November 16, 2010, 11:04:49 PM
I was on the '85, Illinois Wing GT at GLR SARCOMP.
'85 MIWG ground team here. Still have my patch and first place medal.
I know this thread is getting a little old but whatever else you learn about a SARCOMP send my way. TN Wing is looking into putting together a SARCOMP in the near future. Guess what? The CAC is researching it. >:D
Are they researching to provide advise from a cadet perspective or are they researching it so they can run it?
Kinda both. Senior Members will be the offical people in charge of it but the cadets do all the heavy lifting. At this point we are still nailing down details and whether or not it is actually possible. 8)