I'm sorry - honestly - if this question has been asked before.
I have checked 39-1, the CAP Knowledge Base and every Coast Guard regulation I can find.
Can CGAUX ribbons be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform?
I don't mean the actual CG military ribbons that CGAUX are eligible for. I mean CGAUX-specific ribbons.
They are awarded under the authority of the Secretary DHS and Commandant of the Coast Guard, so wouldn't that qualify as "competent military authority?"
I say this because I have a few ribbons from my days in the CGAUX (and I know you can't wear CAP ribbons on the CG uniform), which I currently do not wear because I don't know the regs (which is why I'm asking).
I also know another CAP'er who does wear his CGAUX ribbons and says he'll do so until someone orders him not to and is able to quote proper regs.
There's even a ribbon checker where you can plug in both CAP and CGAUX awards to see the order of precedence.
Again, if this is resurrecting an old topic, I do apologise.
Quote from: CyBorg on September 09, 2010, 04:33:05 PM
Can CGAUX ribbons be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform?
No.
Quote from: CyBorg on September 09, 2010, 04:33:05 PM
I also know another CAP'er member who does wear his CGAUX ribbons and says he'll do so until someone orders him not to and is able to quote proper regs.
Have him show you wear they are authorized.
The only ribbons and insignia from other services authorized are those that are approved for wear on the USAF uniform, which obviously the CG Aux ones would not be.
Only the actual CG ribbons/badges that CGAux are eligible to be awarded. For example, this is why you'll see a few dual (CAP/CGAux) members wear a CG PUC on their CAP uniform. All CGAux members as of a certain date last year are eligible to wear this. I personally do not.
An interesting side note... I've noticed that some SDFs do allow CAP ribbons to be worn.
Quote from: DBlair on September 09, 2010, 04:50:15 PMAn interesting side note... I've noticed that some SDFs do allow CAP ribbons to be worn.
I've seen that. Still wonder why at times. But, if they want to....
Quote from: DBlair on September 09, 2010, 04:50:15 PMOnly the actual CG ribbons/badges that CGAux are eligible to be awarded. For example, this is why you'll see a few dual (CAP/CGAux) members wear a CG PUC on their CAP uniform. All CGAux members as of a certain date last year are eligible to wear this. I personally do not.
That depends on how loosely you interpret CAPR 39-3 SEC. A. 3. b., particularly if you are just an Auxie with no prior military service.
If the CGAUX prohibits wear of CAP awards on the Auxiliary uniform...
which it does. Then I don't see why CAP should be any different, at least with the Auxiliary specific awards. As an Auxie and former CAP member I think it smacks of an attempt at "rack enhancement."
No.
If he wants someone to order him to remove them.....do it. It's that simple.
Quote from: MIKE on September 09, 2010, 05:36:53 PM
That depends on how loosely you interpret CAPR 39-3 SEC. A. 3. b., particularly if you are just an Auxie with no prior military service.
If the CGAUX prohibits wear of CAP awards on the Auxiliary uniform... which it does. Then I don't see why CAP should be any different, at least with the Auxiliary specific awards. As an Auxie and former CAP member I think it smacks of an attempt at "rack enhancement."
He does have prior service; Navy and AFRES.
I know the CG doesn't allow CAP ribbons, but 39-1 should be updated, clarified (cough, cough) to give a straight "yes" or "no" one way or the other.
I have a PUC from the CGAUX, but I usually don't wear it.
Though I am somewhat sympathetic to the argument that CG Aux-specific ribbons are "military" since they are issued by the military, I think it is clear that they were not intended to be included in the applicable regulations.
We have conflicting regulations regarding wear of CG ribbons earned by CG Auxies. The uniform regulation very clearly allows it. The CAP awards regulation clearly doesn't. Since there is no reason that the CAP awards regulation should even mention non-CAP awards and since the uniform regulation clearly claims supremacy over any other reg when it comes to uniform issues, the rule is clear to me.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 09, 2010, 08:06:07 PM
Though I am somewhat sympathetic to the argument that CG Aux-specific ribbons are "military" since they are issued by the military, I think it is clear that they were not intended to be included in the applicable regulations.
We have conflicting regulations regarding wear of CG ribbons earned by CG Auxies. The uniform regulation very clearly allows it. The CAP awards regulation clearly doesn't. Since there is no reason that the CAP awards regulation should even mention non-CAP awards and since the uniform regulation clearly claims supremacy over any other reg when it comes to uniform issues, the rule is clear to me.
I don't think I understand this any better, despite the obvious clarity that eludes some of us. Do you refer to "Military service ribbons may be worn on the CAP AF-style uniform provided they were awarded in writing by competent military authority."? Then it comes down to, is a CGAUX ribbon both 1) a military service ribbon and 2) awarded by a competent military authority?
Don't forget this in CAPR 39-3 Section A 3.b:
All cases where doubt exists as to the propriety of a badge, medal or other device being worn will be referred to National Headquarters for decision.
CG Auxies may earn actual Coast Guard ribbons just like those worn by those who earned them while in the Coast Guard. They, and actually all ribbons earned by Auxies are awarded by the Coast Guard. This is different from CAP where all ribbons are awarded by CAP and the AF doesn't have anything to do with it. The CG controls all CG Aux awards, including those that are Aux specific.
Quote from: RiverAux on September 09, 2010, 11:34:30 PM
CG Auxies may earn actual Coast Guard ribbons just like those worn by those who earned them while in the Coast Guard. They, and actually all ribbons earned by Auxies are awarded by the Coast Guard. This is different from CAP where all ribbons are awarded by CAP and the AF doesn't have anything to do with it. The CG controls all CG Aux awards, including those that are Aux specific.
Ultrathin.com is your friend. That site is very well researched and will not let you put together a ribbon rack that has any regulatory errors in it at all. Just go to that site and build a rack (you don't have to order it) and select everything you have. It will only let you add the ribbons your selected service lets you wear - and will get them in the right order as well.
What I found by just selecting ribbons at random is the actual Coast Guard ribbons go on - but the Aux ribbons pop up with an error message saying "not allowed in your selected order of precedence". It won't let you put an incorrect set together.
Incidentally, the CG Aux is a lot pickier. Four of my actual military ribbons came up as not allowed.
I'm a fan of ultrathin myself, but as a commander I would not accept "because Ultrathin said so..." as regulatory justification.
I think it depends on the ribbon/medal.
We have a bunck of CGAUX people in my wing and the couple of times that I've seen them in full CAP uniform, I though they had served in the Navy or something because they wore ribbons that were unusual in the CAP scheme of things.
There are some CGAUX ribbons/medals, four or five, that are "federal" ribbons awarded by the Commandant of the Coast Guard. I just cross-referenced one: the Coast Guard Special Operations Service Ribbon and found it listed as #75 on Table 5-3 of CAPR 39-1.
It would be interesting to see that set of orders.
Quote from: flyboy1 on September 10, 2010, 10:50:26 AMThere are some CGAUX ribbons/medals, four or five, that are "federal" ribbons awarded by the Commandant of the Coast Guard. I just cross-referenced one: the Coast Guard Special Operations Service Ribbon and found it listed as #75 on Table 5-3 of CAPR 39-1.
It would be interesting to see that set of orders.
The name is a little misleading... the ribbon gets awarded for activities that are a lot less "Ninja" than the name suggests. I have seen it get awarded for operations in support of the CG that in other years have resulted in CGMUCs with "O" device. It depends how generous the OIA feels that year.
I received a CG Special Operations Ribbon for working Tall Ships in 2005... not exactly secret squirrel work
You've got to wonder when some of the real spec ops troops will complain and get the name of that ribbon changed to something like "National Security Event Ribbon".
They don't care.
If they did the would have a proble with Cannon AFB and Hurbert Field AFB.
Everthing down there is "Special Operations" Special Operations Communications Squadron, Special Operations Dining Facility, Special Operations NCO Club!
It is like the "Ranger" argument. The real guys don't care.
Quote from: lordmonar on September 12, 2010, 06:32:35 PMIt is like the "Ranger" argument. The real guys don't care.
I did 8 years in US Army Special Forces. I always wondered how we could have almost a dozen regiment size units doing the same mission for 40 years and still consider it "special". Elite important and difficult yes, but not really special anymore. "Special" means different from usual, and you can do an entire 30 year career in Special Forces now.
It was the entire US Army going to Berets that got people upset, but I was out by then.
Well, I wasn't sure either regardless of what everyone else said. So, I went and looked it up.
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M39_1_chap_5.pdf
According to the 39-1, Table 5-3, Item 42 (United States Nonmilitary Decorations) is the closest a person could come to saying yes; however, upon reviewing what a US nonmilitary decoration was none of the CGAUX ribbons were listed. The closest you're going to get as an Auxiliarist is listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_government#U.S._Coast_Guard
Now, I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia, but I verified the links information on other sites. Wikipedia just had the prettiest display.
So, at the moment the only ribbons you may wear from your time in the Auxiliary would be one of those US nonmilitary decorations, or a USCG ribbon so as long as its listed in Table 5-3. You'll notice that not all USCG ribbons are listed on the table. I get to add the USCG Unit Commendation that Obama gave us all in 2009.
So, there's your regs that you can show this guy. Besides, you add your CGAUX ribbons with your CAP ribbons and active federal service (if you served) and you'll look like a Peruvian General.
However...
CGAUX ribbons are not quite "nonmilitary" in the sense that CAP ones are.
All CGAUX ribbons, at some stage, have to be approved by a Coast Guard officer...and I would think that falls under the "awarded by competent military authority" criteria.