This made me rage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMP3AK5jwo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMP3AK5jwo)
>:( >:( >:( >:(
The fact that soldiers are dying for the freedom of this church to do this is just godawful. This church is satanic. The woman is severely mentally ill in my opinion.
I'll let you folks rip this one apart- ;)
Its frustrating and infuriating, but it is also protected free speech, both in concept and by judgement.
Like it or not, their ability to be Alpha-Hotels is what our soldiers are fighting for.
I respect the Patriot Guard all the more for their restraint, I would likely be arrested the first time I went.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2010, 03:03:12 AM
Its frustrating and infuriating, but it is also protected free speech, both in concept and by judgement.
Like it or not, their ability to be Alpha-Hotels is what our soldiers are fighting for.
I respect the Patriot Guard all the more for their restraint, I would likely be arrested the first time I went.
That's what infuriates me. That countless US soldiers over the years sacrificed themselves to protect this country's freedom and liberties, and this is what they get. This is personal for me, but I don't want to get into that.
I have faith in news media again- gotta love Fox for getting something right :clap:
I'm horrified that they claim to be Baptists. That's disgusting on another level.
Well, this says otherwise on the protected speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PyoUPcobA&NR=1
Check out what they said about this Marine.... RIP Devil Dog.
And if they are disrupting the peace and intruding upon a family's privacy, out goes the 1st Amendment defense*.
Quote from: DakRadz on August 07, 2010, 03:18:09 AM
I have faith in news media again- gotta love Fox for getting something right :clap:
I'm horrified that they claim to be Baptists. That's disgusting on another level.
Well, this says otherwise on the protected speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3PyoUPcobA&NR=1
Check out what they said about this Marine.... RIP Devil Dog.
And if they are disrupting the peace and intruding upon a family's privacy, out goes the 1st Amendment.
This makes me disgusted >:(. I want to do evil things to them but wont say them here... >:D
Quote from: DakRadz on August 07, 2010, 03:18:09 AM
And if they are disrupting the peace and intruding upon a family's privacy, out goes the 1st Amendment.
Hey, anything that gets them off the lawn and going home is fine by me, but the First Amendment never "goes out".
Any creative police officer will find five reasons to cause them grief, but that is a separate charge and issue from their
right to say these horrible things.
Fixed- you're correct, I actually did mean what my correction says; they can't use the defense of the 1st Amendment if they're crossing over huge lines of "no-no"
They should be ashamed of themselves for their lack of respect for the deceased service members and the total absence of compassion for their grieving families.
A Supreme Court justice once wrote that you don't have a right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater...I wish someone would sue the socks off these idiots, take 'em to court for 'mental anguish' and see if a similar principle doesn't apply to what is, after all, essentially a private, family observance honoring the departed.
This has been going on for several years...I'm surprised no veterans' group has chosen to exercise their right to assemble peacefully directly in between these morons and the funeral procession.
Looks like the Supremes will decide once and for all in October:
http://cjonline.com/news/local/2010-08-03/westboro_gets_high_court_date
No one will be surprised where the ACLU falls on this:
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5349/53/
Quote from: ZigZag911 on August 07, 2010, 04:07:12 AM
This has been going on for several years...I'm surprised no veterans' group has chosen to exercise their right to assemble peacefully directly in between these morons and the funeral procession.
That's what the Patriot Guard does.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2010, 04:20:14 AM
Looks like the Supremes will decide once and for all in October:
http://cjonline.com/news/local/2010-08-03/westboro_gets_high_court_date (http://cjonline.com/news/local/2010-08-03/westboro_gets_high_court_date)
No one will be surprised where the ACLU falls on this:
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5349/53/ (http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5349/53/)
Unfortunately that's the job of the ACLU...maybe they can assign a homosexual lawyer to help them out. See their reaction, much like the case with the Neo-Nazis in IL back a few decades with a Jewish lawyer.
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on August 07, 2010, 04:22:28 AM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on August 07, 2010, 04:07:12 AM
This has been going on for several years...I'm surprised no veterans' group has chosen to exercise their right to assemble peacefully directly in between these morons and the funeral procession.
That's what the Patriot Guard does.
Outstanding!
we had two teachers stand up during my high schools seniors last assembly, spcifically the time when we honored the 6 seniors enlisting, they stood up with signs saying "end war" then claimed they wanted to open i dialogue about war. this is the same school where the summer before we painfully let go a brave marine who was killed in afganistan. heres what my junior class did in response :)
im the kid that calls the teacher sour patches cause i was holding back my real thoughts
http://wbztv.com/local/yarmouth.support.troops.2.1751325.html
and some other stuff for back round
http://wbztv.com/local/Dennis.Yarmouth.South.2.1760215.html
http://wbztv.com/local/motorcycle.ride.honor.2.1822914.html
Quote from: HGjunkie on August 07, 2010, 02:46:12 AM
This made me rage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMP3AK5jwo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMP3AK5jwo)
>:( >:( >:( >:(
A
four year old youtube clip???
An update: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/08/AR2010030801578.html
And a way to help: http://www.matthewsnyder.org/help.html
Old News... but it still pisses me off.
She even said Hannity wasn't a Christian, and we all know that he is, well... he said he was and I believe him.
Anywho, read up... http://www.matthewsnyder.org/231570_br%20centered.pdf (http://www.matthewsnyder.org/231570_br%20centered.pdf)
Michael Moore has a few words for WBC...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4&feature=related)
Now remember, one's rights extend only as far as other's begin. Also, infalmatory speech is not protected in any way, shape or form. Who makes these calls...the Judicial Branch of government, the Courts.
My opinion of the matter is this...we have a family and the friends of the fallen in a "compromised emotional state" due to the loss of a beloved. We have a group of people in all respects using the death of this person to make s political statement during the ceremony in which tempers run high.
I would consider their speech inflamatory.
Quote from: Eclipse on August 07, 2010, 04:20:14 AM
Looks like the Supremes will decide once and for all in October:
http://cjonline.com/news/local/2010-08-03/westboro_gets_high_court_date
No one will be surprised where the ACLU falls on this:
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5349/53/
That's the ACLU's job, they don't have to agree with the message. As is attributed to Voltair, "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it". Someone else brought up having a Jewish lawyer represent some Neo-Nazis..
Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression are two of the values our country was founded under. Equal protection under the law was another. No matter how despicable the alleged crime, everyone has the right to a lawyer. I'm pretty sure one of the Founding Fathers represented the British soldiers responsible for the Boston Massacre.
Edited: Forgot the KEY don't.
Edited Part 2: Mike needs to learn to use the Preview function...
Quote from: ZigZag911 on August 07, 2010, 04:07:12 AM
They should be ashamed of themselves for their lack of respect for the deceased service members and the total absence of compassion for their grieving families.
A Supreme Court justice once wrote that you don't have a right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater...I wish someone would sue the socks off these idiots, take 'em to court for 'mental anguish' and see if a similar principle doesn't apply to what is, after all, essentially a private, family observance honoring the departed.
This has been going on for several years...I'm surprised no veterans' group has chosen to exercise their right to assemble peacefully directly in between these morons and the funeral procession.
The best way to deal with these morons is to ignore them. Any vet group that counter protested would just give these bozos media attention....which is what they are all about.
Inflammatory speech per se is not exempt from the protections of the 1st Amendment. The Westboro Baptist Church is pretty much just one clan (literally, they are an extended family) and they also claim their actions are protected under the other parts of the 1st Amendment, religion and assembly. Their words would have to reach the level of incitement to riot or commit a crime to breech that standard, and they are careful enough to just be really, really offensive. Their primary view is that God is punishing America due to Americas tolerance of homosexuality. Ironically, they choose to disrupt the quiet enjoyment ( not really the perfect word for this) of other Americans carrying out a religious observance, i.e., Funeral rites. As far as I know they have never made any physical threats,so they are pretty much legally untouchable. The ACLU is an organization founded by Communists with a distinctly anti-American slant, and they generally only support cases that are damaging to America's moral belief systems. I think in this case, if they had to pick sides, they would be on the side of the Westboro Baptists.
That being said, any red blooded American should be willing to give these sphincters some serious wall-to-wall counseling if they can do so without disrupting the sacred ceremonies honoring our fallen. If the KKK came marching through your neighborhood with a burning cross, you would be imprudent to wait until they start actual lynchings to do something about it, merely for fear of appearing "intolerant." The First Amendment ( and all of the Bill of Rights) protects Individuals from government, not necessarily from private citizens.
"Tolerance" is a new Politically Correct code word that used to mean "moral cowardice". Americans know right from wrong: Don't pee down our backs and tell us its raining!
Major Lord
I would consider, should these people try that in South Texas, that such speech could/should/would be an incitment to a riot.
Picture this, if some family lost their son in combat...a real son of the town...that certain someone teachers, coaches and band directors remember fondly; who worked at the Model Market for several summers, helped people, helped or worked in the harvest, was a Boy Scout, attended and served his church and was someone generally liked even by local "enemies" and rivals.
I can tell you that the whole of the town would go out to morn. Around here, stores would close...the town would be seriously affected by the young man's death. It would be like the sun was shining, but there was darkness.
If these people suddenly showed up and started these protests. Well, you do the math.
I might consider that sitaution starting a riot. Knowingly issuing such speech in a place where such a reaction is possible and, in a premeditated matter to generate discord among people emotionally and (so some degree) mentally compromised.
If fact, if there was no media present, I am of the opinion that an "I am SPARTICUS" moment would happen during the investigation.
Now, I would never (and do not) condone the violent reactions to these people; however, one would be a fool to think it could not happen. I pray that it never does.
Quote from: Major Lord on August 09, 2010, 05:12:21 AM"Tolerance" is a new Politically Correct code word that used to mean "moral cowardice". Americans know right from wrong: Don't pee down our backs and tell us its raining!
Major Lord
Got call BS on this one!
Tolerance is neither Politicall Correct not Moral cowardice. Tolerance is what the blood bill of rights is all about and is what MY military service is all about.
My freedom to do as I please and say what I like.....means that I have to put up with a-holes and sh;t for brains.
Advoacting violance or calling those of us who give theses morons their proper due "i.e. ignore them" cowards is just wrong.
When we start shutting these guys down...who is next? Let the KKK burn their cross...let the pinko commies burn their flag and let these a-holes protest.
Any other response will only play into their hands by giving them media converage.
The real meaning of the word "tolerance" is the correct one; An ability to suffer the rights of others so long as they don't infringe on yours. The PC redefinition of "tolerance" is the willingness to accept any behavior no matter how evil or repugnant. This twisted, perverted term survives because of either a defect in reason, sanity, or character of Americans today. If those Klan members march down my street, they will be made aware that their presence is unwelcome, you see, those are my rights, and the real ones worth fighting for. Passively tolerating any evil to avoid the appearance of one of the "sins" of the left( Racism, Intolerance, etc.) is cooperation, not resistance, with evil. The approval of Media to men of justice, men who have sworn a blood oath to support and defend the Constitution, is of absolutely no importance. To seek the approval of your enemy is to adopt his ideology. When the registered sex offender stands 500 +1 feet away from the Elementary School with his binoculars, to argue that your service is there to defend his rights is one of two things; misguided, or accurate. If you are there to stand silently or actively in the face of evil, whose side are you on? Standing by and watching an attack on the American way, or our Brother and Sister Americans' is anything but tolerance; Your silence denotes consent, and you are now part of the problem.
I am not suggesting that your service is anything less than honorable and good, only that we have let the enemy dictate the terms of the battle by redefining the terminology of the conflict. You complain about the hypothetical; "What happens when we start shutting these guys down?" You have it backwards. They are already shutting us down. Banning the pledge of allegiance, Prohibiting the wearing or carrying of American Flags ( while encouraging burning) outlawing the carrying of Bibles in school, Attempting to actually repeal Amendments to the Bill of Rights, and forcing Racist policies in public employment hiring are just a few of the things we have "Tolerated". Their type of "Toleration" is what is "BS' my friend.
Major Lord
BS.
Tolerating the opposition's right to think as they please and to voice their opinions as they please is not the same thing as accepting them, assiting them or seeking their approval.
We all have the right to peacefuly assemble, the right to worship (or not) as we see fit, to write and say what we please.
Tolerating the KKK's right say thier BS and Westboro Baptist Church to say God Loves IEDs.....is not evil....it is necessary to preserve my right to say the government is wrong (or right), demand that I am not being treated fairly, to assemble like minded people where we can discuss or ideas and pursude others to join our cause.
This is a far cry from being PC....that is not saying what you really think because you are afraid you mind offend someone and hurt yourself politically.
Nor is it approval of the opposition's message.
It is simply respect. They have the right to say blacks are infirior and I have the right to say that is BS. Anyone who opposes this baisic idea does not understand what the Constitution is all about.
Your desire to be free of offense is NOT a right....does not trump other's freedom of speech.
This is not caving to the enemy...this is preserving MY rights by ensuring that everyone else has those same rights.
If we can pick and choose "good" speech vs "bad" speech we very quickly go down that slippery slope where no one can speak out at all.
Quote from: lordmonar on August 09, 2010, 04:32:40 AM
The best way to deal with these morons is to ignore them. Any vet group that counter protested would just give these bozos media attention....which is what they are all about.
That's the beauty of what the Patriot Guard does. They specifically DO NOT protest. They come only at the request of the family and only act as a barrier by peacefully assembling between the funeral and the protesters. Should the protesters make noise, the patriot Guard will do something like recite the Pledge of Allegiance to drown them out. 8)
Free speech is certainly important, but even the Supreme Court has ruled that it has its limits.
A line must be drawn somewhere. What comes next? Picketing weddings?? Protests at kindergarten graduations???
Quote from: ZigZag911 on August 09, 2010, 05:26:31 PM
Free speech is certainly important, but even the Supreme Court has ruled that it has its limits.
A line must be drawn somewhere. What comes next? Picketing weddings?? Protests at kindergarten graduations???
Well...that's the rub. Draw the line......we already understand that our freedom of speech ends when we liable or slander someone. We already understand our freedom of speech ends where we endanger others (Fire in a movie house). We already understadn our freedom of speech ends where we advocate the illegal overthrow of our government or when we encite violance or other law breaking.
Drawling these lines are very difficult to do....because as soon as you accidently draw a line that limits legitimate protests.
Like I said....I hate these guys....but I respect their right to do what they are doing. The best recourse we have is to just ignore them and let them just go away.
And just hope the Supreme Court recognizes that a funeral is an extremely private event, regardless of size, and not the venue for protesters.
One is much mistaken if they think that a person can haphazzardly spout off anything that want. Never forget that with RIGHTS come RESPONSIBILITIES. You can easily find yourself in court ad nauseum from Libel and Slander for things you say. In fact, you can be tied up in court for years, then be cleared of the wrong doing...for things you say or write.
The resulting flow of money, time and resources resulting from such fighting action might well stifle any "haphazzard"speech.
Standing in a flag line or riding in a motorcade with the Patriot Guard is one of the most humbling and sobering experiences you could imagine. Chokes me up every time.
www.patriotguard.org (http://www.patriotguard.org)
Honor - Dignity - Respect
The Westboro crazies are also protesting Comic Con because they say it promotes the worship of "False Idols". ::)
These Comic Con guys?
Link (http://%22http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/07/22/super-heroes-vs-the-westboro-baptist-church/%22)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/07/img0989-1279832630.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/07/img0992-1279832686.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/07/img1007.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/07/img1019.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/07/img0997-1279832533.jpg)
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/07/img0995-1279832880.jpg)