So i want to get a ES patch for my uniform (I am qualified) but i found these 2 different patches
(http://www.ilgp1.org/286/ES-Patch-Old.gif)
and
(http://www.ilgp1.org/286/ES_Dog_small.gif)
What is the difference between the two and which should i put on my BDU's???
Presently, both are allowed. As I have noticed in my area, cadets tend to opt for the "Pluto Patch" and seniors the "Trainer." I currently use neither, electing for the more simple look...one would assume that my GT badge was sufficient.
Again, it is a personal preference. I will give you no grief...but some of the others like to make much ado about this.
I wouldn't wear either one, they are huge, obnoxious and look ridiculous.
To honestly answer your question though, there is no functional difference, they both mean the same thing. And to be clear, you must be qualified in at least two ES specialties (i.e. GES plus one other thing, GT, UDF, MRO, etc) to be able to wear the patch.
Pick whichever one you like the best, and sew it on in the proper place. The lower item is the original ES patch. It was replaced by the upper one in 1966. Sometime between 1987 and 1997, the original patch was again authorized for wear, as a choice. I think Vanguard only sells the dog patch now.
Its wear is authorized by eServices action.
I currently have the Pluto patch on my BDUs. I would love to have the other one but I can't find it on vanguard. Anyone know where I could find it?
They show up once in a while on eBay.
Hopefully someone on here is willing to sell theirs on eBay?
Anyone? Anyone?
Quote from: Sergeant Davis on July 24, 2010, 07:43:55 AM
Hopefully someone on here is willing to sell theirs on eBay?
Anyone? Anyone?
You're better off to keep your uniform simple, lest you be mistaken for a boyscout.
Quote from: DC on July 24, 2010, 06:49:10 AM
I wouldn't wear either one, they are huge, obnoxious and look ridiculous.
No argument here.
QuoteTo honestly answer your question though, there is no functional difference, they both mean the same thing. And to be clear, you must be qualified in at least two ES specialties (i.e. GES plus one other thing, GT, UDF, MRO, etc) to be able to wear the patch.
Cite, please.
Quote from: SJFedor on July 24, 2010, 08:38:01 AM
Quote from: Sergeant Davis on July 24, 2010, 07:43:55 AM
Hopefully someone on here is willing to sell theirs on eBay?
Anyone? Anyone?
You're better off to keep your uniform simple, lest you be mistaken for a boyscout.
Now sir, I'm not one much for meaningless posts, but this warrants it:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: arajca on July 24, 2010, 01:55:37 PM
QuoteTo honestly answer your question though, there is no functional difference, they both mean the same thing. And to be clear, you must be qualified in at least two ES specialties (i.e. GES plus one other thing, GT, UDF, MRO, etc) to be able to wear the patch.
Cite, please.
Emphasis mine. If you would?
Quote from: arajca on July 24, 2010, 01:55:37 PM
Quote from: DC on July 24, 2010, 06:49:10 AM
I wouldn't wear either one, they are huge, obnoxious and look ridiculous.
No argument here.
QuoteTo honestly answer your question though, there is no functional difference, they both mean the same thing. And to be clear, you must be qualified in at least two ES specialties (i.e. GES plus one other thing, GT, UDF, MRO, etc) to be able to wear the patch.
Cite, please.
Here you go...
QuoteCAPR35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges
3. Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one additional specialty qualification.
Also, the award of the ES Patch is now tracked as an ES Award in MIMS. You won't be able to turn it on for someone until they have GES and one other specialty qualification.
Thom
Quote from: Thom on July 24, 2010, 03:40:01 PM
Here you go...
QuoteCAPR35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges
3. Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one additional specialty qualification.
Also, the award of the ES Patch is now tracked as an ES Award in MIMS. You won't be able to turn it on for someone until they have GES and one other specialty qualification.
Thom
Accepted. Although it is redundant since you have to have GES BEFORE you get any other ES qualification, and GES is not usually accepted as a qualification, but as a prerequisite for all the rest.
GES qualifies you to be at a mission and you can be put to work at just about any task the IC feels fit to assign you. You would be officially "under supervision" but you could do a lot of different functions.
Quote from: vorter on July 24, 2010, 06:29:58 AM
So i want to get a ES patch for my uniform (I am qualified) but i found these 2 different patches
(http://www.ilgp1.org/286/ES-Patch-Old.gif)
and
(http://www.ilgp1.org/286/ES_Dog_small.gif)
What is the difference between the two and which should i put on my BDU's???
Both are authorized, it's your choice. And, if it helps, there's a bit of a history lesson here.
The Pluto patch dates from the 50s and 60s and was first worn by the CAP Owner Pilot Service...guys that you only saw during missions. They also had a red name tag and generally didn't have a rank. There was a small version that was worn on a baseball cap and a larger version worn on a flight suit. I'm not sure when it became an ES patch, but I'm pretty sure that happed in the late 1970s due to member popularity. The emblem itself, however, is a lot older and I was once told that it dated from World War II, but I've never seen anything close to it as one of the costal patrol bases.
The oval patch has a T-34 in it so you can guess when it was authorized. I never liked it because, to me, it looked like something off a gas station uniform. These days, however, I've seen a lot of them worn on baseball caps. They fit nicely and look good in that manner.
Personally, I like the dog patch because of the history. I don't wear it and I wish the powers that be up above at Maxwell would allow it worn on the right shoulder in place of the optional wing patch where all the other special activity patches are worn.
Quote from: vorter on July 24, 2010, 06:29:58 AM
What is the difference between the two and which should i put on my BDU's???
One is round, one is oval.
Neither.
The dog (Pluto or Bird Dog) patch was introduced in 1966 1961 as the ES patch. The T-34 was introduced in 1966.
[edit] OOPS!
The difference is one is a cartoon and one is close to a cartoon.
The best option is neither. The second best option is the stupid plane. The worst possible option is the cartoon.
Quote from: Sergeant Davis on July 24, 2010, 07:37:47 AM
I currently have the Pluto patch on my BDUs. I would love to have the other one but I can't find it on vanguard. Anyone know where I could find it?
If it would go to the good cause of having a Pluto patch removed, I will send you one for free if I can find one in my bins of stuff.
[opinion]
Quote from: JC004 on July 25, 2010, 06:55:28 AM
The difference is one is a cartoon and one is close to a cartoon.
The best option is neither. The second best option is the stupid plane. The worst possible option is the cartoon.
[/opinion]
Quote from: JC004 on July 25, 2010, 06:55:28 AM
The difference is one is a cartoon and one is close to a cartoon.
The best option is neither. The second best option is the stupid plane. The worst possible option is the cartoon.
Quote from: Sergeant Davis on July 24, 2010, 07:37:47 AM
I currently have the Pluto patch on my BDUs. I would love to have the other one but I can't find it on vanguard. Anyone know where I could find it?
I wear neither, but if it helps to kill the triangle thingy, then I will the Pluto patch without hesitation for the cause. At least it is official and properly authorized. >:D
Quote
If it would go to the good cause of having a Pluto patch removed, I will send you one for free if I can find one in my bins of stuff.
There IS something to be said for the fact that at least it's authorized/duly approved by our governing bodies. Not only that, but unlike our various logos, it actually has guidance for its use too. Yikes.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2010, 01:55:45 AM
Quote from: vorter on July 24, 2010, 06:29:58 AM
What is the difference between the two and which should i put on my BDU's???
One is round, one is oval.
Neither.
QFT.
Isn't the GT or wings enough?
Not all ES qualified members are GT or aircrew.
Eh, i like patches and badges.. More cool stuff lol
but thats just me
Point 1- Many cadets will wear every permitted piece of bling they've earned. I still tend to do this, and I'm 3 years into as many cadet programs ^_^ Swear I'm getting better, though ;)
Point 2- As far as badges being enough, I've earned the ES Patch, but nothing else (yet). My ES Patch was approved by doing GES and IS-100 courses. So... It's the only bling I have for BDUs anyway; certainly other cadets/seniors are in the same situation.
Quote from: DakRadz on July 25, 2010, 05:53:10 PM
Point 1- Many cadets will wear every permitted piece of bling they've earned. I still tend to do this, and I'm 3 years into as many cadet programs ^_^ Swear I'm getting better, though ;)
Point 2- As far as badges being enough, I've earned the ES Patch, but nothing else (yet). My ES Patch was approved by doing GES and IS-100 courses. So... It's the only bling I have for BDUs anyway; certainly other cadets/seniors are in the same situation.
You have to earn an ES rating of some kind to get the ES patch. GES is not enough.
Quote from: DakRadz on July 25, 2010, 05:53:10 PMMy ES Patch was approved by doing GES and IS-100 courses.
Nope. You've got more work to do.
Hmmm. Well then. Seems like I have some research and work to do. Be right back, checking regs (still don't have a small handheld device to do it on)
And if you're right, guess who gets to tell the Sqd/CC he's wrong... He'd accept the truth, wouldn't flip out, but who really enjoys saying that to the CC? Ah well. Checking.
Quote from: DakRadz on July 25, 2010, 06:24:14 PM
Hmmm. Well then. Seems like I have some research and work to do. Be right back, checking regs (still don't have a small handheld device to do it on)
And if you're right, guess who gets to tell the Sqd/CC he's wrong... He'd accept the truth, wouldn't flip out, but who really enjoys saying that to the CC? Ah well. Checking.
If he accepts the truth easily, consider yourself lucky. You've got a good CC in that case.
Wonderful. So. Oh my. Well now, how does one go about such a task as this....? CAPTalk 1, Me 0.
I'll inform Col Tuesday, when I have printouts and a good gameplan.
Reminded of an old Randy Travis song:
"Gonna have a little talk with Jesus Colonel, when I get home tonight at the meeting Tuesday night"
;) Thanks for keeping me honest, Cap'n, Eclipse.
ADD-IN: Oh, he'll take it well. As long as I have proof, I'm golden. And since I'm voiding my own award, and my 1st Sgt's, he'll know I'm not being vengeful, just honest.
And yes, I have a DERN fine CC. :D
Simply show him the regs and move on, if he chooses to accept it, great, if not, you still don't have to wear it.
It should not be a big deal.
The reg is quoted in post #12 (by arajca) in this thread.
Quote from: Thom on July 24, 2010, 03:40:01 PM
Quote from: arajca on July 24, 2010, 01:55:37 PM
Cite, please.
Here you go...
QuoteCAPR35-6 Aeronautical Ratings, Emergency Services Patch and Badges, and Ground Team Badges
3. Requirements for Award of the CAP Emergency Services Patch. Current and qualified in accordance with CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training and Operational Missions as a general emergency services member with one additional specialty qualification.
Also, the award of the ES Patch is now tracked as an ES Award in MIMS. You won't be able to turn it on for someone until they have GES and one other specialty qualification.
Thom
So how did my Patch get approved? I can believe that my Col was mistaken as to the requirements for the patch, but I know he did NOT circumvent/manipulate the system to award it. And I've seen the approval on eServices.
Quote from: DakRadz on July 25, 2010, 07:49:47 PM
So how did my Patch get approved? I can believe that my Col was mistaken as to the requirements for the patch, but I know he did NOT circumvent/manipulate the system to award it. And I've seen the approval on eServices.
All those approvals are subjective, and the is no built-in logic on the ratings, since they only started tracking those recently.
You would not have had to have earned it recently to have earned it.
Hopefully as eservices is shored up, these things will get harder to misinterpret, but that's down the road a ways.
The ES patch was one of the first "ratings" tracked in eServices, and that's been for at least two years. There's no date listed on my approval, and I'm not sure if I have any olde paper records available to track when mine was approved.
Quote from: SarDragon on July 25, 2010, 08:10:24 PM
The ES patch was one of the first "ratings" tracked in eServices, and that's been for at least two years. There's no date listed on my approval, and I'm not sure if I have any olde paper records available to track when mine was approved.
They only started tracking badges and patches a few months ago - not sure what you were seeing, but the ES patch was never tracked before then on eServices.
Screenshot if you got it...
I had my ES Patch and GT badges tracked since MIMS.
They tracked the ratings, not the badges themselves.
Under the SQTRs there is one for "ES Awards". That is where the award of the ES patch, GT badges, MP/MO wings, ES specialty track badges are recorded. It has been in place for a couple of years now.
Quote from: SarDragon on July 25, 2010, 07:37:01 PM
The reg is quoted in post #12 (by arajca) in this thread.
Just to be clear, specifically the list on page 26 of 60-3, correct? I had cadet ask me the same question during the encampment last week. Thanks.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2010, 09:33:33 PM
They tracked the ratings, not the badges themselves.
Unless the rating says "ES Patch" or "Ground Team Badge - Basic".... I'll try and look through my old files to see if I have a screenshot or email.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 25, 2010, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on July 25, 2010, 08:10:24 PM
The ES patch was one of the first "ratings" tracked in eServices, and that's been for at least two years. There's no date listed on my approval, and I'm not sure if I have any olde paper records available to track when mine was approved.
They only started tracking badges and patches a few months ago - not sure what you were seeing, but the ES patch was never tracked before then on eServices.
Screenshot if you got it...
Did you not read my post?
I just looked at my Member Search Report, and the date in there is 1 Aug 2001, but I know the e-version doesn't go that far back. I do recall that when my CC got the notification after my initial entry, she asked, "What's this?", and I told her that it was a new feature. This had to be at least 18 months ago, based on other events in the unit. It was the only ES raring in the system like that for quite a while.
I'm still digging through my paper trail, but might not have anything on that.
And I can tell you they were not tracking badges and patches in eServices in 2001 - was eServices even online then?
You can back date the badge as much as you want in the current module.
Eclipse- SarDragon said he knew the e-version (i.e. eServices) didn't date back that far...
Quote from: Eclipse on July 26, 2010, 02:15:51 AM
And I can tell you they were not tracking badges and patches in eServices in 2001 - was eServices even online then?
You can back date the badge as much as you want in the current module.
I said that. And it should have been obvious from my post that it was backdated.
The entry format has changed a couple of times since the ES patch tracking started, and it wasn't an obvious selection. Most people didn't even know it was there, as apparently you didn't. Why not just accept that it was there before you noticed it, and let it go? It's not worth continuing the urination competition.
I can see we're getting down and technical after I asked a simple question. Lol
Quote from: vorter on July 26, 2010, 02:25:24 AM
... I asked a simple question. Lol
No such thing here. >:D
eh... true
Quote from: Eclipse on July 26, 2010, 02:15:51 AM
And I can tell you they were not tracking badges and patches in eServices in 2001 - was eServices even online then?
You can back date the badge as much as you want in the current module.
It was called eBusiness back then, or @business, the first character was tough to read on my WebTV connection, then later, crappy monitor.
Quote from: vorter on July 24, 2010, 06:29:58 AM
So i want to get a ES patch for my uniform (I am qualified) but i found these 2 different patches
(http://www.ilgp1.org/286/ES-Patch-Old.gif)
and
(http://www.ilgp1.org/286/ES_Dog_small.gif)
What is the difference between the two and which should i put on my BDU's???
There's no difference between them. They're both too big and don't compliment the uniform like someone else said. My suggestion is wear your Squadron patch on the right pocket and the and your GT Badge. That should look better.