Are you required to stay the whole entire meeting?
This question is pretty vague and a full answer depends on many factors, not the least of which is senior member vs. cadet and local leadership. My first reaction is "No" -- in a sense there's no regulatory requirement that you stay for a whole meeting spelled out in that way. For senior members, there's no obligation simply by virtue of being a member of CAP to attend meetings, let alone attend them from start to finish. I've seen many SMs serve through irregular schedules and as their lives allowed, but still making a positive contribution to CAP. Again, speaking in generalities, most units understand their members have lives outside CAP and have other obligations. You'd be hard-pressed to find the CAP leader to say "No, sorry, I can't understand that you have to pick your kid up from soccer this once... it's insubordination if you leave."
That having been said, there are other factors. Just jetting out 20 minutes before the end of every meeting because you don't like to stand in formation, help clean up, or to beat traffic would --to me-- be pretty unacceptable. Habitually ducking out of meetings in the middle or before the end would, at the very least, trigger a unit's leadership to ask more about what's going on in the member's life, and if they can continue making a positive contribution to the unit given their current situation.
Of course, cadets are another story because "attending meetings regularly" is a part of their oath and the expectations we have of cadets. Again, I imagine all leaders would understand about occasional obligations. But at the same time, if C/AB Snuffy keeps ducking out early because he doesn't want to stand in formation and pick up chairs after the meeting or to catch the beginning of his favorite TV show that starts at 10... well, that's unacceptable.
The key point is that unit leadership should question any behavior that ultimately has a detrimental effect on a member's role in CAP.
Well in my circumstance: I'm a cadet and if I'm required to stay the whole meeting my mom who picks me up and drops me off will be late to her job, and I will not be able to continue the program. In that circumstance do you think its re sonable to duck out early, not to avoid formation or clean up?
That is a problem, but before leaving CAP, do you any options? Are there other cadets , parents, or Senior Members who live in your vicinity who can drive you home from meeting? How much of the meeting are you actually missing?
15 to 20 minutes max. is how much I'll miss but I just started and my mom is not comfotable with anyone giving me rides but her. Id basically just miss closing formation and maybe a little bit of our seniors talking about whats coming up or going on...
Quote from: ChrisUSN on July 14, 2010, 06:28:33 AM
Well in my circumstance: I'm a cadet and if I'm required to stay the whole meeting my mom who picks me up and drops me off will be late to her job, and I will not be able to continue the program. In that circumstance do you think its re sonable to duck out early, not to avoid formation or clean up?
As a former DCC, I think its reasonble. Not pushing at all, since I was in a similar situation as you when I was a cadet, but you think your mom may change her mind once she meets the other Senior Members and the other cadets parents?
Regulations wise, as stated, there is nothing that says you need to stay for the whole meeting. As a cadet or senior. The "regularity" of attendance is a grey area. If you attend once a month CONSISTENTLY isn't that technically a regular attendance pattern?
As a senior with a rotating work schedule which is erratic and includes overnights, , i attend as often as possible and given enough notice try to attend all special activities on the weekends.
As a cadet though, i was at every meeting 15 minutes early, and there (when on staff) sometimes 15-20 minutes past closing formation shooting the spit with the rest of the staff.
I think that if you consistently leave early from meetings, that some cadets may see it negatively. while there may not be regulations against it.
I do agree with what people are saying above though. Maybe you can car pool with another cadet in the area. If your mother can drive to the meetings, then maybe the other parent can give you a ride home. At very least, ask to speak to your commander on the side and explain the situation AFTER speaking with your mother to see if it is something that she would be willing to do.
Make sure you follow your chain of command when asking to speak with the commander though.
And after the decision is made, if you have to leave early, LET SOMEONE KNOW. Your entire chain of command should know your situation. Don't just take it upon yourself to leave early; that will definitely earn you a bad rep.
Forgot to mention that part. That is very important. Accountability is key, and the whole chain of command should definately be kept in the loop regarding you leaving early.
Quote from: FARRIER on July 14, 2010, 08:58:23 AM
Quote from: ChrisUSN on July 14, 2010, 06:28:33 AM
Well in my circumstance: I'm a cadet and if I'm required to stay the whole meeting my mom who picks me up and drops me off will be late to her job, and I will not be able to continue the program. In that circumstance do you think its re sonable to duck out early, not to avoid formation or clean up?
As a former DCC, I think its reasonble. Not pushing at all, since I was in a similar situation as you when I was a cadet, but you think your mom may change her mind once she meets the other Senior Members and the other cadets parents?
I don't think so because she is very strict and really does not want to come to the meetings herself. And thanks for everyones input btw.
Strict .. and that could be a real problem later on, that will have to be dealt with.
It's one thing, as a basic, to leave early. But as you progress, there are things that happen during the meeting, before the meeting and after. With that being perhaps AE activities, and such when there is hands on. Like our meeting last night, the cadets were given a challenge to design a rocket with parts provided that would pass the string test after being given a class on basic rocket design characteristics. Something like that, later in the meeting would have been something you'd walk out of.
Then comes the other part of advancing, you can probably rule out any staff positions that require the staff meeting, if you can not stay.
Considering the already too small amount of contact time per month with members, I would not be excited about a cadet who had to leave early every week.
Circumstances are what they are, but is it fair to allow you to miss 20%+ of the meeting times and then allow you to progress at the same rate as everyone else?
People make time for the things that are important, clearly your Mom has to work when she has to work, but considering the circumstance
there needs to be some flexibility on her part as well.
You, your mom, and your unit CC need to sit down and discuss this directly, including the possible ramifications of partial participation.
Cadet...if you don't mind me asking, how long before you are able to drive yourself to meetings? If it's relatively short period of time, then I don't think leaving early, for 6 to 12 months will be too much of a hindrence. As long as your chain of command is kept in the loop.
Next question...when will you receive your first promotion? Invite your family to come to the ceremony and allow your mom to participate. I have seen anxious parents become relaxed, supportive and proud parents after seeing their cadet promoted.
I hope that you are finding CAP fun and beneficial to you!! If you are, share your excitement with your mom every chance you get.
Well I have at least 2 years before I can drive and I've only been to one meeting thus I'm not positive that the end time was regular as I have heard that the meeting ends at 8:50, 9:00 and 9:30 the only problem I have is the 9:30 end time I can only stay until 9:10 at the very latest. My moms job is not flexible as to when she can come in. All I would like to know is if anyone knows of a cadet being allowed to leave 15-20 minutes early off of a 2.5 Hour long meeting. And would you allow it?
Quote from: ChrisUSN on July 14, 2010, 05:40:37 PM
All I would like to know is if anyone knows of a cadet being allowed to leave 15-20 minutes early off of a 2.5 Hour long meeting. And would you allow it?
The only person who can answer that with a period at the end of the sentence is your unit CC.
I personally would not be excited about the idea.
Okay. Ill talk to him... Thanks for the input.
Since you are probably not part of any communications that is done prior to the meeting as of yet, the very first thing I would do is find out that answer, is it 2050, 2100, or 2130?
As you say, only the latter you have an issue with. If it's the others, then your in the clear. It's nearly a non-issue.
The 1st Sergeant is typically the clock keeper. What about the contact information on their web site?
Typical ending times I have found are 2100-2115. Perhaps if it's literally the last 5 minutes of a meeting, or just right after closing, you need to leave - you might make a point of getting there about that much earlier, if it's a matter of setting up before and breaking down after, with the after part missing, if you contribute to the setup then it almost balances, but in final as others have stated the CC' and staff should be well appraised of the situation. Without that, it most certainly can't work, but with it things are certainly a lot more flexible.
Yeah I can definitely offer to come in early! Thats a good idea thanks!
Quote from: ChrisUSN on July 14, 2010, 05:40:37 PM
... I have heard that the meeting ends at 8:50, 9:00 and 9:30 the only problem I have is the 9:30 end time I can only stay until 9:10 at the very latest....
I have never been in a unit that conducts weekly meetings past 9:00PM, unless it is something that was planned weeks ahead of time.
The meeting ends in your Case at 9:00PM. If the meeting is running more than 10 minutes past 9:00PM, politely excuse yourself and go home.
I have issues with people who can not use a clock, or plan within time frames. There is no reason other than "preplanned" functions going past a units END TIME found in the "unit finder" on E-Services.
Quote from: Patterson on July 14, 2010, 10:12:33 PM
Quote from: ChrisUSN on July 14, 2010, 05:40:37 PM
... I have heard that the meeting ends at 8:50, 9:00 and 9:30 the only problem I have is the 9:30 end time I can only stay until 9:10 at the very latest....
I have never been in a unit that conducts weekly meetings past 9:00PM, unless it is something that was planned weeks ahead of time.
The meeting ends in your Case at 9:00PM.
Most units in my area meet until at least 9:30pm.
Where, within the bounds of this thread, has it been established that his meetings end at 9pm? He doesn't even know for sure.
Quote from: Patterson on July 14, 2010, 10:12:33 PMThere is no reason other than "preplanned" functions going past a units END TIME found in the "unit finder" on E-Services.
I would suggest not planning your evenings by those times - that is by no means "binding". Those unit finders are intended to
provide general information to new members or visitors, not as scheduling tools.
^ Eclipse I do not care what time a units "Official meeting time ends" is, I was only giving an example of my experience. I was trying to get across that if the meeting is scheduled to end at 9:00PM or even 9:30PM, Squadron Commanders should meet that ending time!!
If you wrote that your meeting ends at 9:30PM on the CAPF 27 lets hold to that, or update you CAPF 27 and send through channels to National.
Nothing bothers Parents like waiting a half hour for a meeting that is always scheduled to end at 9:30PM. It is a disservice to everyone by going over the meeting end time. UNLESS you let everyone know ahead of time.
Meeting schedules and deadlines and suspense is part of CAP. Lets not just say "we end, when we end"!!!!!!!!
On the unit finder it lists it for 9:00, the contact that it also lists told me 8:50 and another website like capmembers.com or something told me 9:30 the actual meeting went until 9:15 I can only stay until 9:10. So that is why I am confused.
And I also agree with you Patterson. If they say they're going to end at a certain time they should end at THAT time, I mean for the love of god we're representing the Airforce, The Military, and our country, they should be on time.
Posts merged. - MIKE
Quote from: ChrisUSN on July 15, 2010, 12:11:44 AM
On the unit finder it lists it for 9:00, the contact that it also lists told me 8:50 and another website like capmembers.com or something told me 9:30 the actual meeting went until 9:15 I can only stay until 9:10. So that is why I am confused.
Again, this is a question for your flight staff to go up the chain. (most likely for the deputy commander of cadets).
I used to have a Squadron Commander that couldn't keep the meetings to normal times...he had a moratorium on promotions for about 6 months, and decided to do the boards for us after the end time...mine came up 30 mins after usual end time...I was pissed because my parents didn't know (and neither did I prior) and had to wait. After a conversation my step-father had with the commander, he decided to try to keep in bounds...
Thankfully, now the commander is gone to another state, and as I recall, not so active anymore.
Quote from: Patterson on July 14, 2010, 11:20:52 PM
^ Eclipse I do not care what time a units "Official meeting time ends" is, I was only giving an example of my experience.
Which unless you were trying insinuate that meeting past 9 was somehow "wrong" was not relevant to this discussion, especially
when even the original poster doesn't know the length of his meetings.
There is no indication by anyone here, either, that they are running over their "scheduled" time.
Form 27's are not intended to delineate meeitng times in anything more than a general sense.
ASK YOUR SQUADRON CC.In fact, in the time you have been discussing this here, you could have simply called him, your flt sgt, flight CC, or Cadet CC and gotten your answer.
I emailed all the contacts I have in the squadron.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 15, 2010, 02:02:52 AM
ASK YOUR SQUADRON CC.
In fact, in the time you have been discussing this here, you could have simply called him, your flt sgt, flight CC, or Cadet CC and gotten your answer.
And since this is NOT a new change in your circumstances, it should have been discussed before you became a member of that squadron. That is why a lot of squadrons have membership boards and a requirement for new potential members to attended three meetings before submitting their applications.
Quote from: ChrisUSN on July 15, 2010, 02:49:40 AM
I emailed all the contacts I have in the squadron.
A couple of other "options":
1) Walk up to him and ask.
2) Call him on the phone.
Rinse, repeat if necessary.
If your unit does not have a public calendar, this may be a good time to suggest that, as well as volunteer to help put it together.