I'm looking for ideas on good ways to start Cadet meetings. Currently we form them up in flights, have announcements, and then begin the night. I've heard some sqd. do a chaplain prayer, we've considered the Pledge of Allegiance as a possibility, anyone have other ideas?
Formation
Cadet Oath
Inspection
General schedule for evening (if applicable)
Final formation
Promotions/awards (if applicable)
Announcements/upcoming activities
Dismissal
Quote from: snpotratz on June 09, 2010, 07:11:46 PM
I've heard some sqd. do a chaplain prayer, we've considered the Pledge of Allegiance as a possibility, anyone have other ideas?
Why do we need to pray at our meetings?
How do you do the pledge while silent and at attention?
Our senior meeting is opened with the Pledge and prayer by the Chaplain.
Quote from: 1LtNurseOfficer on June 09, 2010, 07:35:05 PM
Our senior meeting is opened with the Pledge and prayer by the Chaplain.
And again, Why?
Are we a Church? Or are we meeting for a regular meeting?
Everyone in their seats at the scheduled time
1st sergeant calls the room to order.
Command walks in
1st sergeant calls for the colors to be posted
Pledge of Allegiance
Announcements, schedule changes, etc.
Unit wide items like Safety.
1st sergeant directs flights to their respective mustering points
(IF you are testing, stay here, Alpha, report to xxx, Colorguard flight - outside, etc.)
and falls the room out.
Lt,
In case it was not made clear by the above poster, we don't say the pledge of allegiance in the AF uniform. This would leave the un-uniformed saying the pledge and the uniformed standing at attention, saluting if outdoors (or under arms) and wearing headgear. Unless you are 100% sure that your Squadron is not going to have issues around an opening prayer, I would leave it out. Your regulatory authority for including it is questionable, and can/may very likely end in an IG hostile environment claim. I know you are in God's Country, and you are still in America, but "CAP" is an anagram for "APC" ( Astoundingly Politically Correct)
Major Lord
Quote from: Major Lord on June 09, 2010, 07:43:03 PM
...
"CAP" is an anagram for "APC" ( Astoundingly Politically Correct)
Sheesh. Another one. Maybe we should have a directory of what "CAP" stands for, like "Come And Pay," etc. >:D
We can't pray to God, the Creator of the Universe, but we can
and do worship at the altar of diversity and political correctness.
That makes perfect sense.
Opening Formation
Inspection
Dismissal to Class, Testing, etc.
Final Formation
In Army ROTC sometimes the cadre would talk about a leader in history, about a battle, or a famous quote of course applicable to the situation while in opening formations or the beginning of class. In CAP we could talk about leaders, leadership, current events as it
applies to CAP.
Who's G-d would you be praying to?
Allah, Jehovah, Jesus, Buddha (not a god, but you get the point)?
From experience, no Chaplain I've seen ever manage to not turn it Christian.
As an Atheist I don't care, but as someone who doesn't think it has place at most events CAP participates in, especially with diverse cadet/SM membership, it infuriates me.
Quote from: USAFaux2004 on June 09, 2010, 09:48:46 PM...
Here's an idea. Post what you do to open your meetings and put this discussion in the recent thread about it.
All the squadron's I've ever been a member of have done this:
1) Formation
2) Report
3) National Anthem
4) Cadet Oath
5) Carry on with the events for the night.
My point exactly. It only takes one disgruntled member to take offense. Now it may be that their Squadron has well adjusted mature people who can tolerate the oppressiveness intrinsic to a belief in God, and they can get by with it for awhile, but eventually they will have a person who gates god and worships "tolerance", and the Sq will have to change to suit them.
Major Lord
Quote from: snpotratz on June 09, 2010, 07:11:46 PM
we've considered the Pledge of Allegiance as a possibility
Quote from: USAFaux2004Our senior meeting is opened with the Pledge
Regarding pledging while in military uniform...
Quote from: 4 USC 4The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.", should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000004----000-.html
Therefore, by my interpretation the pledge is fine if you have people in civvies and corporate uniforms but those in military uniform (all cadets) would not pledge.
It's not "worshiping the god of political correctness." It's called not violating the Establishment Clause. Yes, it applies to CAP, because we are chartered by Congress and act as an instrumentality of the United States Government. We are an Air Force-sponsored activity, and the Auxiliary of the US Air Force. And the Constitution totally applies to the Air Force. Non-denominational invocations during a Wing Conference is fine, but invocations at weekly meetings is proselytizing.
Doing the Pledge of Allegiance is redundant, as wear of the uniform is a "Pledge of Allegiance" in and of itself. National Anthem is far more appropriate for a meeting opening.
Here's how our squadron does things:
Fall into formation.
Reporting into Sq/CC ("Sir, 20 Cadets present. Sir, 15 Seniors present")
Flag raising/Nat'l Anthem
Orders of the Day
Seniors dismissed to duties/Cadet uniform inspection
Cadets dismissed to duties.
closing:
Fall into formation
Reporting to Sq/CC
Flag lowering/Taps
Dismissal
My Squadron's Agenda:
-Room Attention.
-National Anthem.
-Cadet Oath.
-Announcements and Newsletter.
Do you sing the National anthem? Play it on a boom box?
Major Lord
We play it on the squadron computer.
This is for a cadet Sq.
Room tench- hut
Pledge of allegiance
Cadet Oath
Short Prayer
Opening formation
Drill (1st half)
break
Class/Sport
Awards/promotions (situation applicable)
dismissal
Quote from: 1LtNurseOfficer on June 09, 2010, 07:26:07 PM
Formation
Cadet Oath
Inspection
General schedule for evening (if applicable)
Final formation
Promotions/awards (if applicable)
Announcements/upcoming activities
Dismissal
+1
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on June 10, 2010, 02:09:32 AM
Quote from: 1LtNurseOfficer on June 09, 2010, 07:26:07 PM
Formation
Cadet Oath
Inspection
General schedule for evening (if applicable)
Final formation
Promotions/awards (if applicable)
Announcements/upcoming activities
Dismissal
+1
+2
Alright, who thinks that it is appropriate to start a CAP meeting with Prayer? Is CAP a church? No! Is it appropriate to start public school days with prayer? NO! So why do people think that it is okay for CAP to start with prayer? Because I've seen stuff like this happen: Prayer happens, lead by a religious leader of a certain christian denomination, and somebody who is apparently the "wrong kind of Christian" starts being discriminated against. If you insist on having your children be proselytized, don't send them to CAP, send them to Church club. CAP is NOT a religious organization. We are a military organization. Having a prayer is discrimination against somebody who is non religious, or somebody who is the wrong kind of religion. Religious discrimination is forbidden by the CAP Constitution and CAPR 36-1.
As for the use of the Pledge of Allegiance at the beginning of CAP meetings, CAPP 151 has this to say on page 11: "When in a military-style uniform, stand at attention, and remain silent." and "The pledge is not normally recited when CAP members are in formation. Reciting the pledge when in a military-style uniform, let alone when assembled in a formation, is somewhat redundant - the uniform and all the other trappings of national service are themselves symbols of a special devotion to America." (Bear in mind this considers the TPU to be a military-style uniform).
I have been Chaplain at my squadron for 4 years and the only prayer I have led was before the meal at our squadron banquet.
We have been through many discussions on CAPtalk with regards to the questions of prayers and/or the relevence of chaplaincy in CAP. All these conversations accomplish is a lot of hurt feelings. Each "side" paints the other with an exceptionally large stroke. While I am not a moderator and have no authority to request that posters use caution and a modicum of repect for others when replying to a position that you do not agree with; nontheless, I would like to make just such a request.
Thank you
I can not find any way that a persons belief in a religion discriminates against a person that has no belief.. That is nuts..
We do the Pledge of Aleigence and the Cadet Oath
Fall out for formation and uniform inspection.
The only religious discrimination I have ever seen in CAP has been in the form of Atheist/Humanist hostility towards religion in general, Christianity in particular. Nonetheless, I don't think its appropriate to routinely open a Squadron meeting with a prayer..... Or the Pledge of Allegiance.
Major Lord
Quote from: AirAux on June 10, 2010, 05:13:31 PM
I can not find any way that a persons belief in a religion discriminates against a person that has no belief.. That is nuts..
Why is your right to pray greater then my right to not be compelled to listern to it?
Not that I have a dog in the fight, but why even risk the controversy?
(http://members.cox.net/xanadu99/CAP/Clock_ticking_away.gif)