Last night my squadron held an awards ceremony ( One Cadet accepted to the AFA!) and a couple of Senior Members were promoted. For every promotion, the Seniors were "sworn in" , even though these were not the initial acceptance of their CAP "Commission". My CD-S told me that this was a reg from within the last year or two. Can someone point me to it? Is this the common practice?
Major Lord
Quote from: CAPR 035-0051-7. Authority to Wear Officer Grade Insignia.
b. Commanders are encouraged to have promotion ceremonies each time a member receives a promotion and issue the CAP promotion oath to those earning officer grades. The CAP promotion oath is:
I, (full name), having been promoted to the grade of __________ in the Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and comply with the Constitution, Bylaws and regulations of the Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge all duties and responsibilities as well as obey the orders of the officers appointed over me according to regulations, so help me God.
Notice "encouraged" and "issue", where as the cadets are required to speak to accept their 1st stripe.
We have never done this. Interesting.
I found it kind of.....hokey....
Major Lord
Quote from: Major Lord on June 13, 2010, 11:06:13 PM
hokey
Major Lord
Having seen other posts by you, this word seems too.. unprofessional for you to use ;D
Well, the AF does it. So either A) a wannabee wanted to do this, or B) someone thought it would be a good idea to try to remind senior members to read the regs >:D
Really, my B) would be that someone wanted to remind senior members of their duties in a way, hmm?
I agree with Major Lord, it sounds kind of overdone for CAP use. I have always found it a nice practice to have new cadets pinning on their first stripe recite the Cadet Oath, but that's it.
Quote from: DC on June 14, 2010, 12:02:47 AM
I agree with Major Lord, it sounds kind of overdone for CAP use. I have always found it a nice practice to have new cadets pinning on their first stripe recite the Cadet Oath, but that's it.
In our squadron,all cadets recite the Cadet Oath on each promotion and all senior members recite the CAP promotion oath. Hokey???
Yep. Hokey.
I think it lends a bit of professionalism and formality to the ceremony, something sometimes sorely lacking among SMs. Since there is a precedence for it in the regs, then I say go for it. Better than the "good ole boy" way I've seen some SM promotions go in the past.
An oath should not be entered into lightly. Like the oath to support and defend the Constitution or an oath of marriage, it should only have to be said once. I have no objections to taking an oath upon receiving a CAP "commission" but to continue to say it over and over again ( In vain repetition, as the heathen do...) to me cheapens it. I don't think the word "hokey" is at all inappropriate, but if you prefer, substitute; "Corny".
Major Lord
I have to agree, "over and over" again certainly cheapens it to me too. It's not like a drivers license that needs renewing. It's a bit higher up than that. Just a bit.
At least, it really should be. Otherwise, whats the point?
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
An oath should not be entered into lightly. Like the oath to support and defend the Constitution or an oath of marriage, it should only have to be said once. I have no objections to taking an oath upon receiving a CAP "commission" but to continue to say it over and over again ( In vain repetition, as the heathen do...) to me cheapens it. I don't think the word "hokey" is at all inappropriate, but if you prefer, substitute; "Corny".
Major Lord
Total agreement on this. Upon renewing, if you do it over the computer with a credit card, you agree to follow the orders...etc. Its an oath in itself.
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
An oath should not be entered into lightly. Like the oath to support and defend the Constitution or an oath of marriage, it should only have to be said once. I have no objections to taking an oath upon receiving a CAP "commission" but to continue to say it over and over again ( In vain repetition, as the heathen do...) to me cheapens it. I don't think the word "hokey" is at all inappropriate, but if you prefer, substitute; "Corny".
Practice disagrees with you - these were easy to find and there's plenty more where that came from...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM_uJzBMHfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaU13Dld7Ck
Assuming this was done for every CAP promotion, most members would never recite the oath more than 5 times in a 10-15 year period,
and most probably 1/2 of that. Many of our "Senior-Captains" have never recited it and never will. Hardly "often", or "over and over.
People reaffirm their marriage vows all the time, and I have seen plenty of promotion and re-enlistment ceremonies where oaths are reaffirmed.
Anything that reminds our members that we are more than a flying club works for me.
Reenlistments - I agree. I did that every time.
Promotions - eh. I don't recall ever redoing an oath any time I got advanced in the Navy. But that was a while back, too. Last promo was in 1976.
But as far as I've been informed, in the RM, officers don't have contracts, other than the initial service requirement (to pay back serve to make up for the funds for USNA/ROTC)- so they wouldn't have an occasion to say the oath other than promotions.
The reenlistments part, for enlisted, makes a lot of sense to me. But A) CAP has "reenlistments" every year. Promotions are usually much farther between.
EDIT: Forgot B)- B) Since promotions in CAP would all be officer promotions (unless the enlisted CAPpers decided to have two ceremonies, RM and CAP), the RM equivalent is to say the oath at promotions.
Seems to me the appropriate time (if there is one in CAP) would be when you renew your membership, whether you renew every year, or every three. I see absolutely no correlation between the CAP oath and a military officer or enlisted oath. None whatsoever.
QuoteI, (full name), having been promoted to the grade of __________ in the Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and comply with the Constitution, Bylaws and regulations of the Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge all duties and responsibilities as well as obey the orders of the officers appointed over me according to regulations, so help me God.
QuoteI, (state your full name) having been appointed a ________ in the United States Air Force do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office which I am about to enter so help me God.
Minus the defending and obvious RM parts, rather similar.
Wording similar yes, it's the whole defending the Constitution of the United States vs the constitution of a non-profit organization thing.
Now that I think of it I remember having to take an oath along the same lines when I was hired as a repair technician at an audio/video store on an overseas base.
I agree with you, when you put it that way.
Wow... Okay then.
Quote from: MSgt Van on June 14, 2010, 02:49:12 PM
Now that I think of it I remember having to take an oath along the same lines when I was hired as a repair technician at an audio/video store on an overseas base.
?????
Yep. It was listed as a civil service position of some sort, so I had to hoist the right hand and swear an oath.
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
An oath should not be entered into lightly. Like the oath to support and defend the Constitution or an oath of marriage, it should only have to be said once.
Do you feel the same way about the Pledge of Allegiance?
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
An oath should not be entered into lightly. Like the oath to support and defend the Constitution or an oath of marriage, it should only have to be said once.
Marriage, all depending on whether or not you renew your vows at some point ::)
As someone has pointed out (and posted video links to) RM officers say the oath at every promotion. I've seen it myself, in person.
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
I don't think the word "hokey" is at all inappropriate, but if you prefer, substitute; "Corny".
Never said innappropriate. It was more of a random musing which made its way to the keyboard and forum.
Plus, hokey, as a word, is hokey- it describes itself :D
Quote from: Eclipse on June 14, 2010, 05:45:06 AM
People reaffirm their marriage vows all the time...
Yeah, but renewing your marriage vows is about the same as your membership in CAP. You just swipe the credit card again...
;D
Quote from: Short Field on June 14, 2010, 05:16:37 PM
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
An oath should not be entered into lightly. Like the oath to support and defend the Constitution or an oath of marriage, it should only have to be said once.
Do you feel the same way about the Pledge of Allegiance?
The first of four versions of the POA was written by a Socialist named Francis Bellamy. The pledge was written for children's indoctrination purposes, and is the equivalent of the "Now I lay me down to sleep" prayer. I don't have to swear allegiance to
a flag because I have sworn a holy blood oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Major Lord
As someone has pointed out (and posted video links to) RM officers say the oath at every promotion. I've seen it myself, in person.
Not necessarily. I was promoted 5 times after I was commissioned and never repeated my commissioning oath or my initial enlistment oath.
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 08:29:13 PM
I have sworn a holy blood oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Wow!!! I am impressed. Is it anything like the oath the RM use?
Quote from: Short Field on June 15, 2010, 05:08:28 AM
Quote from: Major Lord on June 14, 2010, 08:29:13 PM
I have sworn a holy blood oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Wow!!! I am impressed. Is it anything like the oath the RM use?
Not that I've ever seen.