I understand that there are at least a few states that have imposed their own standards regarding training, etc. on those wishing to participate in search and rescue operation. If your state has such rules, has CAP decided to go ahead and meet those standards on top of our own requirements so as to participate, or has CAP decided to just stay out of the game?
If your state has such standards, please provide a link to a website that lays them out.
I'm talking about standards that are either explicitly laid out in state law or which a state agency has been authorized by law to be imposed.
I'd like to keep it at the state level, so if your local sheriff has his own rules, lets not talk about them.
In California I do SAR with both CAP and through the local Sheriffs department (Who are responsible for SAR)
For the most part CAP will handle most ELT missions and the Sheriffs department handle the Missing Persons and every once in a while ELT or missing aircraft.
As far as the Sheriffs department goes there is no formal qualification, you show up to training once a month and we go out and train out in the field on necessary skills. Like this month was Land Nav and an intro to RDF. Next month is Helicopter Operations. The dog team trains about once a week and the dogs are required to become certified by CARDA (California Rescue Dog Association). But for the basic ground pounder its a simple application/background check.
In 22 years, no one has come to the ASTM SAR Standards Committee with a SAR standard that is mandated or specified within a state law. No one has approached the FEMA SAR Working Group with one, either. That's not to say one doesn't exist, but I would have expected one to have surfaced by now. There are a number of states that have SAR laws that have led to the creation of requirements and standards documents, but these documents aren't part of the actual law.
The closest is the Washington Administrative Code (WAC) WAC 118-04-120 "Classes and qualifications of search and rescue emergency workers," which specifies the basic qualifications for several classes of SAR emergency workers.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=118-04-120
Washington has a Search and Rescue Volunteer Advisory Council (SARVAC) which has developed standards for out-of-county (mutual aid) calls.
http://wasar.bizland.com/Standard.html
Oregon has state SAR standards which aren't codified but the county sheriffs and state Office of Emergency Management require that they be followed.
http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/tech_resp/sar.shtml
http://www.oregon.gov/OMD/OEM/tech_resp/sar_docs/sar_standards_2005.pdf
New Mexico also requires SAR agencies to meet training standards but the standards themselves aren't written in the law. SAR in New Mexico is run by the State Police.
http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement/searchRescue/index.php
http://www.nmesc.org/FieldCert_docs/NMSAR_act.pdf
http://nmsarc.org/FieldCert_docs/StudyGuide.pdf
The California Emergency Management Agency (Cal-EMA) Law Enforcement Division has statewide SAR mutual aid guidelines, that like the other states, aren't specified by law.
http://tinyurl.com/yar9lwp
Virginia also has state level standards for SAR.
http://www.vasarco.org/
http://www.vdem.state.va.us/programs/sar/index.cfm
Colorado has one SAR typing standard intended for state level mutual aid callouts, but like the others, is not required by law to be used. Now that the State Emergency Mobilization Resource Working Group has finally conceded that the FEMA SAR standards aren't usable, and revised ones aren't going to become official for some time, the Colorado SAR Board has been tasked with developing additional ones.
http://www.coloradosarboard.org/csrb-documents/ColoradoWildernessSearchCrew.pdf
http://www.coloradosarboard.org/csrb-documentlibrary.asp
I'm sure there are others, but these are ones that are frequently cited in standards discussions.
CAP performs ground SAR in all these states. How CAP has or has not incorporated these into its training would have to be answered by members from the states.
Mike
Quote from: Jerry Jacobs on March 15, 2010, 02:24:29 AM
In California I do SAR with both CAP and through the local Sheriffs department (Who are responsible for SAR)
For the most part CAP will handle most ELT missions and the Sheriffs department handle the Missing Persons and every once in a while ELT or missing aircraft.
As far as the Sheriffs department goes there is no formal qualification, you show up to training once a month and we go out and train out in the field on necessary skills. Like this month was Land Nav and an intro to RDF. Next month is Helicopter Operations. The dog team trains about once a week and the dogs are required to become certified by CARDA (California Rescue Dog Association). But for the basic ground pounder its a simple application/background check.
What County are you in?
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:30:26 AM
Quote from: Jerry Jacobs on March 15, 2010, 02:24:29 AM
In California I do SAR with both CAP and through the local Sheriffs department (Who are responsible for SAR)
For the most part CAP will handle most ELT missions and the Sheriffs department handle the Missing Persons and every once in a while ELT or missing aircraft.
As far as the Sheriffs department goes there is no formal qualification, you show up to training once a month and we go out and train out in the field on necessary skills. Like this month was Land Nav and an intro to RDF. Next month is Helicopter Operations. The dog team trains about once a week and the dogs are required to become certified by CARDA (California Rescue Dog Association). But for the basic ground pounder its a simple application/background check.
What County are you in?
Solano, not sure how it works in other counties.
Quote from: Jerry Jacobs on March 15, 2010, 05:38:32 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:30:26 AM
Quote from: Jerry Jacobs on March 15, 2010, 02:24:29 AM
In California I do SAR with both CAP and through the local Sheriffs department (Who are responsible for SAR)
For the most part CAP will handle most ELT missions and the Sheriffs department handle the Missing Persons and every once in a while ELT or missing aircraft.
As far as the Sheriffs department goes there is no formal qualification, you show up to training once a month and we go out and train out in the field on necessary skills. Like this month was Land Nav and an intro to RDF. Next month is Helicopter Operations. The dog team trains about once a week and the dogs are required to become certified by CARDA (California Rescue Dog Association). But for the basic ground pounder its a simple application/background check.
What County are you in?
Solano, not sure how it works in other counties.
I know for a fact that the Sheriff Dept Teams in Los Angeles, San Bernardino and Riverside Counties require much more training then that.
They're almost a part time job, that you don't get paid for...
Quote from: PHall on March 15, 2010, 05:48:39 AM
I know for a fact that the Sheriff Dept Teams in Los Angeles, San Bernardino and Riverside Counties require much more training then that.
They're almost a part time job, that you don't get paid for...
I am willing to wager that those counties have a much higher ops tempo than Solano. My team was called out for 9 searches in 2009 and was successful in each one. However most of them were urban in nature.
What type of helicopter do you guys have up there?
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 03:24:53 PM
What type of helicopter do you guys have up there?
Man Robert you are a RotorHead, aren't you? :P
Who cares about the thread topic. When the mention of helicopters comes up, its all fair game after that.
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:47:49 PM
Who cares about the thread topic. When the mention of helicopters comes up, its all fair game after that.
No fair. You at least get a shot at it. I am still waiting for the chance to let go on Traffic Accident Reconstruction. SIGH.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:47:49 PM
Who cares about the thread topic. When the mention of helicopters comes up, its all fair game after that.
Dang you rotor boys are almost as bad as fighter jocks. (http://www.afblues.com/?p=38) ;D
Quote from: davidsinn on March 15, 2010, 06:11:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:47:49 PM
Who cares about the thread topic. When the mention of helicopters comes up, its all fair game after that.
Dang you rotor boys are almost as bad as fighter jocks. (http://www.afblues.com/?p=38) ;D
That's right.
Except we're cooler.
Quote from: Rotorhead on March 15, 2010, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on March 15, 2010, 06:11:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:47:49 PM
Who cares about the thread topic. When the mention of helicopters comes up, its all fair game after that.
Dang you rotor boys are almost as bad as fighter jocks. (http://www.afblues.com/?p=38) ;D
That's right.
Except we're cooler.
Because you have that big ceiling fan over your heads! >:D
Quote from: PHall on March 15, 2010, 11:47:25 PM
Quote from: Rotorhead on March 15, 2010, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on March 15, 2010, 06:11:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:47:49 PM
Who cares about the thread topic. When the mention of helicopters comes up, its all fair game after that.
Dang you rotor boys are almost as bad as fighter jocks. (http://www.afblues.com/?p=38) ;D
That's right.
Except we're cooler.
Because you have that big ceiling fan over your heads! >:D
[Insert joke about helicopters don't fly...]
Thank you sardak for replying to the actual topic....
:'(
Relax
Sure, its no problem if over half the posts in a thread have nothing to do with the topic. Silly me.
Might as well lock....
Quote from: Rotorhead on March 15, 2010, 10:32:28 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on March 15, 2010, 06:11:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 15, 2010, 05:47:49 PM
Who cares about the thread topic. When the mention of helicopters comes up, its all fair game after that.
Dang you rotor boys are almost as bad as fighter jocks. (http://www.afblues.com/?p=38) ;D
That's right.
Except we're cooler.
And if you eat all of your Wheaties, when you grow up we
might let you be a paratrooper.
Quote from: RiverAux on March 14, 2010, 10:15:46 PM
I understand that there are at least a few states that have imposed their own standards regarding training, etc. on those wishing to participate in search and rescue operation. If your state has such rules, has CAP decided to go ahead and meet those standards on top of our own requirements so as to participate, or has CAP decided to just stay out of the game?
If your state has such standards, please provide a link to a website that lays them out.
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/msp/units/civilian_sar.pdf
A few years ago there was some interested at the Wing level, but to my knowledge it never got beyond the discussion point.
Generally the State Police (weather conditions permitting) with the Air Wing Helicopters (5 each Eurocopter AS355N Twin Star) with FLIR, high powered spot lights, & public address systems are better equipped to respond quickly & effectively than initially using large ground team resouces, or depending upon "civilian" volunteers that will take time to mobilize and report to the search assembly area.
Additionally, the State Police has specialized teams including: Incident Management Assistance Team, Special Emergency Response Team (which is trained in missing person search), K-9 (search dog) Unit, Tactical EMT's, Mounted (Horse) Unit, & Underwater Recovery Unit, which are all on pager alert and can be moblized immediately (generally carry their equipment in their patrol vehicles) to assist in lost person searches.
So in our wing it doesn't look too good for CAP ground teams being direct players in these type of searches. I personally think IF the approach was taken to offer "supplement" staffing in any way needed, even if it was logistical help at the EOC/assembly area, that would be a foot in the door that would build relationships & trust that could increase the missions.
RM
RADIO
That plan spells it out pretty clearly and I have not seen my own State Plan as of yet..
More reasons that CAP needs to get into the frame of mind who they would be working for.....which is spelled out pretty clearly
CAP can sell the skills they have, but when rubber meets the road, CAP needs to understand the word volunteer does not equal first responder, which is the desire of a few in the organization.
CAP does not run the searches as they would like after an "action packed" weekend SAREX. We are proving ourselves to the AF and a few local EM's and agencies.
I feel the real sticking points are the some of the Wing legal officers and types holding MOU's up in order to protect the organization, which in some cases reinforces the thoughts of using the SO, Natl Guard and other fixed and rotary wing assets 'cuz they already have trained folks already in the mode. Now I know CAP like to claim "15 minutes from notification to airborne status" but in reality it's more toward the 45 min to 2 hour mark and now with all the edginess of wrinkled sheetmetal syndrome, the pace ought to be slower.
So in most instances, I agree. Depending on MOU's and State SAR plans, CAP is pretty well defined a support function(s) and those desiring in CAP a "lead role" in SAR, may want to really check things out before calling in the "we are cheaper than all those resources" card. Yes, I agree the SDIS stuff and some of the flood relief stuff now going on is great CAP work, but it is who we are working for....we are not the lead as far decsion making for the disaster relief role. We are the support function of a request
We already KNOW we are....but State plans for efficiency and CAP SAR integration are not always mutually acceptable. Just because we have the good training in SAR, doesn't always buy it for those who do this on a daily basis....more reasons for CAP to really embrace the NIMS and ICS stuff. That might get some buy with the real operators down the road and maybe some currently are in the mode
But we know CAPers...... Some THINK they invented ICS ::) ::)