Good afternoon everyone,
I am having a problem here...
a couple of my cadets need to have the CPPT completed before I can update any of their on line records for promotion. They have passed both the written pretest and corrected it to 100%. As well as discussing both case studies, and a couple I made up out of the blue. The cadets gave the CPPT exams to our squadron personnel officer, but still no verification of completion for them, or access for me. What is the correct process, and what should i do now?
Send the CAPF 11 that the cadets signed when they completed CPT, along with the Commander's signature, to lmmeforms@capnhq.gov.
Thank You
Have your Professional Development Officer (or the person with that duty assignment in eServices) email the Form 11.
This is a Professional Development form, not one that requires the commander's signature. In fact, it doesn't require any signatures, cadet or otherwise.
Quote from: EMT-83 on March 08, 2010, 12:03:26 AM
Have your Professional Development Officer (or the person with that duty assignment in eServices) email the Form 11.
This is a Professional Development form, not one that requires the commander's signature. In fact, it doesn't require any signatures, cadet or otherwise.
It
requires that all parties who participated sign it, as well as the commander at the respective echelon.
For Foundations its the Unit Commander, for SLS/CLC its the Wing CC, otherwise its the director of the respective program (TLC, etc.).
Unsigned forms do not receive credit and are returned by NHQ.
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/F011_BE086E683028C.pdf
+1.
The form can be faxed, but MUST be signed.
Negative. Except for specific cases like SLS and SLC, which are clearly stated on the form, signatures are not required for electronic submission.
I have submitted at least 20 of these things without signatures, including cadet CPPT, with absolutely no problem.
The amount of bad information some people adhere to is simply astounding. I can tell you for a fact that NHQ will bounce
back unsigned Form 11's, if you choose to believe otherwise, so be it.
The why, you would send one without signatures makes no sense, as without a signature you have nothing to
substantiate the member was even in attendance to the class.
To quote the form itself (my emphasis):
"PLEASE TYPE/PRINT CLEARLY. CAPID NUMBER AND MEMBER'S SIGNATURE ARE ESSENTIAL IN ORDER
FOR NHQ CAP/DP TO ENSURE MEMBERS RECEIVE PROPER CREDIT FOR THE COURSE."
Because it is permitted:
a. Forms listed with an asterisk (*) may be transmitted without a person's actual signature via e-mail only.
(1) Complete the form and place the name, title and unit of the signing authority in the signature block of the form and save the file.
(2) Prepare e-mail and ensure the name, title and unit of the signing authority is in body of the e-mail and attach the file (form) to the e-mail.
Form 11 is included in the list that may be transmitted without a signature via email. My name in the signature block substantiates that the information is correct.
If you choose to believe otherwise, you're creating more work for yourself than necessary.
Your name as certifier, maybe, there is no relief for the members to sign the form - that's the whole point of the thing.
I admit to not having sent in a Form 11 myself for about 18 months, but when I was, signatures were required. This was verified by phone with NHQ. If there's been a change since then, I'm not aware of it, nor have I seen anything in writing.
Well, y'all type faster than I do. The above cite from EMT-83 is what I was going to quote.
If faxed - needs sigs; if emailed - doesn't need sigs. Since I always signed off the forms as a director, I never had the opportunity to email them. I'm not sure why NHQ changed the requirement for participant sigs if sent by email.
Bottom line - both are correct, depending on method.
I completed Level One training yesterday for a new member. I then went on line to the Forms and Publications page, and filled out a Word version of the Form 11. I then saved it as a PDF and emailed to NHQ.
Never once was this document printed, nor did a pen come anywhere near it. I can guarantee that tomorrow, or Tuesday at the latest, this member will receive credit for his Level One.
Agree or disagree all you want, but this is permitted by NHQ. Call them yourself if you don't believe me.
So what do you have to substantiate that the member was properly trained for Level 1 and CPPT?
Quote from: Eclipse on March 08, 2010, 12:52:42 AM
So what do you have to substantiate that the member was properly trained for Level 1 and CPPT?
Eclipse it is allowed to go without signatures. National will update the E-Services system as "completed CPPT and Level 1"
Please go to the forms section at national and read the instructions above the links for the various forms.
Someone should then update the Senior Member record on file if you really need that paper and pen experience. Otherwise throw a copy of the on line Form 11 in the members folder and move on.
The person sending the form is vouching that the member has completed the training by sending the email. We are trying to move away from paper and real signatures in CAP!
There's nothing wrong with doing away with paper, however that does not mean doing away with "real" signatures, nor the responsibility
to be able to substantiate a person's attendance beyond "because I said so".
A member who does something wrong or bad which winds up in a hearing (or worse) could simply say they were never told "x", and you'd have no way of proving they were ever even in the room, let alone heard the information.
Every member who got Level I training from me was provided a copy of a signed Form 11, the original of which was mailed to NHQ. Since I'm a pack rat, and like leaving a paper trail, that's how I do it.
Quote from: Eclipse on March 08, 2010, 01:20:18 AM
There's nothing wrong with doing away with paper, however that does not mean doing away with "real" signatures, nor the responsibility
to be able to substantiate a person's attendance beyond "because I said so".
A member who does something wrong or bad which winds up in a hearing (or worse) could simply say they were never told "x", and you'd have no way of proving they were ever even in the room, let alone heard the information.
But my name on the email, and on the Form 11 are saying the same thing as though I signed it. Really.....if it comes down to court, that is a fight CAP National would have to defend, not me. It is their policy to allow unsigned forms through. I would guess that the Legal Officers there had no problems OK'ing that.
Quote from: Spike on March 08, 2010, 01:30:41 AM
But my name on the email, and on the Form 11 are saying the same thing as though I signed it.
When you leave the unit that email goes away forever. I'm not talking about
you signing it, I'm talking about the
new members signing it that they were in attendance.
I understand an e-sign coming from an email that matches. Since your email is not accessible to anyone but you, there is nothing for the member's file that says anything more than you just typed a form. There isn't even any way to substantiate who did the training.
Hey Eclipse....it's the 21st Century.
A hard copy signature means nothing I can print up a whole lot of form 11's and from 2's and 2a's and give myself credit for everthing from CPPT to an MSM.
You are the commander, you did the face to face you send in the CAPF11. You can keep a hard copy if you want. National does not care....so why do you?
Once it is updated in eServices, it is a dead issue anyway. You want documentation that they completed the training? Check their record in eServices. End of Story.
If you find someone with credit in your squadron that "magically" appeared and the people who conduct that training in the squadron didn't admit sending in the Fm 11, then it is time for some 2b action. That is all the reasonable control you need. Now if your squadron personnel/PDO/admin officers don't pay enough attention to the new members to tell when they get Level One and who trained them, you might have a problem.