Got the ES bug

[flyguy06]

Ok, as many of you know I am not that big on ES. But In my National Guard job I am in a new type of unit dedicated to Homeland Security. We are attending a conference this week talking about NIMS and the ICS and it is interesting.

I am wondering once I complete this course how can I apply it to CAP ES qualifications? I think we are actua;;y doing the ICS course. Can I apply this to being an Incident Commander?

[Hawk200]

Ok, as many of you know I am not that big on ES. But In my National Guard job I am in a new type of unit dedicated to Homeland Security. We are attending a conference this week talking about NIMS and the ICS and it is interesting.

I am wondering once I complete this course how can I apply it to CAP ES qualifications? I think we are actua;;y doing the ICS course. Can I apply this to being an Incident Commander?

Have you taken any of the Incident Command Structure courses yet? I don't remember if you're aircrew or not. For Scanner, you have to do ICS-100, -200, -700, and -800. I'm finishing up ICS-800 now, only one more module to do.

If it uses those same courses, then it would just be a matter of bringing the certificates in to your unit. When you finish each ICS section, it emails you a link to an electronic certificate. A lot of it would apply to Incident Commander, but there's even more involved.

The courses are interesting, but Acronym heavy. Use the Glossary when you don't know what something means, it's a "lifesaver" 

The link to the various FEMA courses for scanner is: http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is100.asp

[Fifinella]

ICS-200 is required to be a ground branch director, but first you have to be GTM and GTL qual'd (to be a GBD).

[DeputyDog]

Have you taken any of the Incident Command Structure courses yet? I don't remember if you're aircrew or not. For Scanner, you have to do ICS-100, -200, -700, and -800. I'm finishing up ICS-800 now, only one more module to do.

Where did you get that from? A Mission Scanner is not required to do ICS 200, 700 or 800. Neither is a Mission Observer or a SAR/DR Mission Pilot. The first time you will come across any of those courses as a requirement for anything aircrew related is when you go for Air Operations Branch Director (which would be the ICS 200).

The only course you have to take is ICS 100. However, most people take it as CAPT 116 part 2, which won't count for anything outside of CAP.

[DeputyDog]

Ok, as many of you know I am not that big on ES. But In my National Guard job I am in a new type of unit dedicated to Homeland Security. We are attending a conference this week talking about NIMS and the ICS and it is interesting.

I am wondering once I complete this course how can I apply it to CAP ES qualifications? I think we are actua;;y doing the ICS course. Can I apply this to being an Incident Commander?

Which course are you taking? G193 (ICS 200) will credit for IC3, G195 (ICS 300) will credit for IC2 and G196 (ICS 400) will credit for IC1. As Hawk200 said, there is more to IC training than just the ICS courses. However, taking and passing the ICS courses is a big chunk of it.

When you get your certificate from it, turn in a copy of them to your unit's emergency services officer, then enter it in the proper place in "My Operations Qualifications (M.I.M.S.)".

[DeputyDog]

ICS-200 is required to be a ground branch director, but first you have to be GTM and GTL qual'd (to be a GBD).

Funny enough, you only have to have been qualified as a Ground Team Leader at some point in order to go for Ground Branch Director. It doesn't have to be current.

I've had one member in a squadron qualify as a GBD that way. I've been trying to find a way to trick that member into "accidentally" being a Ground Team Leader trainee on a sortie at a SAREX so that person will qualify as a GTL.

[SAR-EMT1]

Have you taken any of the Incident Command Structure courses yet? I don't remember if you're aircrew or not. For Scanner, you have to do ICS-100, -200, -700, and -800. I'm finishing up ICS-800 now, only one more module to do.

Where did you get that from? A Mission Scanner is not required to do ICS 200, 700 or 800. Neither is a Mission Observer or a SAR/DR Mission Pilot. The first time you will come across any of those courses as a requirement for anything aircrew related is when you go for Air Operations Branch Director (which would be the ICS 200).

The only course you have to take is ICS 100. However, most people take it as CAPT 116 part 2, which won't count for anything outside of CAP.

Under the new FEMA Aircrew certification its required.  Me thinks thats what he is talking about... FEMA requirements for CAP ...bad idea in general.
I do have ICS 1-4 00 and 7-8 00 among many other FEMA / ESDA quals, so I'm not merely bashing them, I'm just stating that for our purposes any of the new certifications - FEMA aircrew, WSAR, etc...is just painful to comprehend.

[Hawk200]

Where did you get that from? A Mission Scanner is not required to do ICS 200, 700 or 800. Neither is a Mission Observer or a SAR/DR Mission Pilot. The first time you will come across any of those courses as a requirement for anything aircrew related is when you go for Air Operations Branch Director (which would be the ICS 200).

The only course you have to take is ICS 100. However, most people take it as CAPT 116 part 2, which won't count for anything outside of CAP.

That's what they told us at the aircrew training weekend we had at our wing. Might have been for observer, but I thought they told us all of those. And ES116 didn't seem to have a whole lot in common with ICS-100. I've done both.

[Fifinella]

ICS-200 is required to be a ground branch director, but first you have to be GTM and GTL qual'd (to be a GBD).

Funny enough, you only have to have been qualified as a Ground Team Leader at some point in order to go for Ground Branch Director. It doesn't have to be current.

I've had one member in a squadron qualify as a GBD that way. I've been trying to find a way to trick that member into "accidentally" being a Ground Team Leader trainee on a sortie at a SAREX so that person will qualify as a GTL.

Yeah, I think it's odd that one's GTL doesn't have to be current to be a GBD.

[Hawk200]

Yeah, I think it's odd that one's GTL doesn't have to be current to be a GBD.

It's the experience that counts, not the currency. Experience doesn't disappear when your currency ends.

[Fifinella]

Yeah, I think it's odd that one's GTL doesn't have to be current to be a GBD.

It's the experience that counts, not the currency. Experience doesn't disappear when your currency ends.

That's true.  But how does the system ensure that the GBD's knowledge is current?  If there are updates to regs/procedures/guidelines/training, does the GBD have to sign off on anything, like a read-file?  IOW, are there required knowledge currencies, similar to the way all are required to take new 116 tests when they are updated?

I'm NOT knocking experience.  Just wondering about sporadic folks whose experience might be out-of-date.

[wacapgh]

If the evaluator is doing his/her job correctly, the AOBD/GOBD* trainee will have to demonstrate their knowlededge before getting an "OK".

This also presumes that your evaluator is up to speed 

* "Need not be current" also applies to FASC, PSC, LSC, and OSC

Greg Hader, Major
ES Officer
PCR-WA-002

[flyguy06]

I am a qualified Mission Observer and Scanner and I have NEVER taken any ICS courses. In the class I am in now we are larning a lot of techinques relating t the ICS system. The different sections but this course is tailered more towards CERF-P units that deal with decon and medical treatment and excavtion techniques. and command and control

[lordmonar]

Yeah, I think it's odd that one's GTL doesn't have to be current to be a GBD.

It's the experience that counts, not the currency. Experience doesn't disappear when your currency ends.

That's true.  But how does the system ensure that the GBD's knowledge is current?  If there are updates to regs/procedures/guidelines/training, does the GBD have to sign off on anything, like a read-file?  IOW, are there required knowledge currencies, similar to the way all are required to take new 116 tests when they are updated?

I'm NOT knocking experience.  Just wondering about sporadic folks whose experience might be out-of-date.

The GBD does not have to know everthing at GTL does....just how he does it.  Your GBD could be an old GT guy who is not no longer able to hump it out in the woods.  He is coordinating what they do...not doing it themselves.

For an analogy...look at and Infantry Officer....the Lt has to be able to shoot and scoot just like the grunts...as he move up in the chain...he is doing less shooting and scooting and more planning.  by the time he is a general he....if he ever had to shoot and scoot...something is very wrong.

So...if you have some guy trying to be GBD and his GTL is not current....you send him back to training...but don't require him to do the field work....just a refresher on the tasks he really needs to know as a branch director.

[Hawk200]

I am a qualified Mission Observer and Scanner and I have NEVER taken any ICS courses. In the class I am in now we are larning a lot of techinques relating t the ICS system. The different sections but this course is tailered more towards CERF-P units that deal with decon and medical treatment and excavtion techniques. and command and control

Check 'em out: http://www.training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/crslist.asp

They're actually kind of interesting. I learned a number of things, and I'm kind of wondering why the government wasn't using this sooner. ICS is a pretty straightforward system, doesn't get really complex until you get to the -700 and -800 series.

[Fifinella]

So...if you have some guy trying to be GBD and his GTL is not current....you send him back to training...but don't require him to do the field work....just a refresher on the tasks he really needs to know as a branch director.

Precisely.  So back to my question: "How does the system ensure that the GBD's knowledge is current?" 

[Eclipse]

So...if you have some guy trying to be GBD and his GTL is not current....you send him back to training...but don't require him to do the field work....just a refresher on the tasks he really needs to know as a branch director.

Precisely.  So back to my question: "How does the system ensure that the GBD's knowledge is current?" 

GBD's are required to re-task on all the line items on the GBD SQTR every three years, as well as participate in missions, so on GBD tasks as a concept, that maintains currency.

As to being curent on GTM/L tasks, that's a bit of a nuance, as most GBD tasks are derivitives and you can't finish one with know the others, though an argument could be made that those things are the GTL's problem in a mission environment...

[sardak]

Check 'em out: http://www.training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/crslist.asp

They're actually kind of interesting. I learned a number of things, and I'm kind of wondering why the government wasn't using this sooner. ICS is a pretty straightforward system, doesn't get really complex until you get to the -700 and -800 series.

Just a friendly clarification because what gets complex is FEMA's course numbering.

IS = Independent Study
ICS = Incident Command System

IS-700 is Introduction to NIMS and IS-800 is Introduction to NRP.
Neither 700 or 800 cover ICS except to say that ICS is a component of NIMS, so they are not classes to learn the ICS.

Classes to learn the ICS are ICS-100, -200, -300, -400 and -402 (401 is now combined with 400).
ICS-100 and -200 are available online as IS-100, -200. 
ICS-300 and 400 are not available online as "IS" classes.

To confound matters, FEMA's Emergency Management Institute offers ICS-300, -400 and -402 as G-300, -400 and -402.

Mike

[Fifinella]

GBD's are required to re-task on all the line items on the GBD SQTR every three years, as well as participate in missions, so on GBD tasks as a concept, that maintains currency.

As to being curent on GTM/L tasks, that's a bit of a nuance, as most GBD tasks are derivitives and you can't finish one with know the others, though an argument could be made that those things are the GTL's problem in a mission environment...

Thanks, that's what I was looking for.