National Commander's Suspension Coming to an end Sunday

[SDF_Specialist]

You might have missed it.  An Incident Commander ran his name on the National Membership database, and it came up no results.  So he is out of the database, and presumably out of CAP.

Justice has been served.

[flyguy06]

I'm sorry, a CAP Major General is a "real" thing.  CAP rank, be it not equal or comparaible to USAF RANK, however, it is real for what it is.

What, costume jewelery?

Well, for Pineda at least! 

Rank doesn't make the person, the person makes the rank.  For example, Brig Gen Courter is a "real" general; Pineda never was (though he was in his own mind). 

What makes Courter a "real" General? Because you happen to like her as opposed to Pineda? Pineda was duly elected by the proper procedures. he is an authentic CAP Maj gen. He can claim he was a Gen becaus ehe was. Regardless of wheather we lik ehim or not . he was a Maj Gen in the CAP history.

[flyguy06]

There is also a federal law prohibiting wear of the Air Force uniform and insignia, and the definition of "Air Force" includes CAP.  The TPU, I do not know.  

Then I muct be breaking the law then. I am an Army 1lt and a CAP capt. Am I then impersonating an Air Force senior offocer? I dont think so.

There is no law prohibiting a regular joe to buy an air force style uniform. I have never seen that law. It is ileagal to impersonate an officer by trying to pan yourself off as one. But if you buy a CAP uniform and rank from vanguard. No police officer is going to come up to you and give you a ticket.

[flyguy06]

Now see, here's another problem. If CAP terminates a member, why isn't there a way to stop these members from trying to attend CAP activities?

Ask >Mr.< Pineda politely to leave.  If he doesn't, its trespassing.

If he makes a scene, its disorderly conduct.

This is true for anyone not welcome at a CAP activity, member or not. 

thats true. But if Gen Pineda ever came to my squadron, I would invite him in and ask him to speak to my cadets. It would be good for them to see a Minority CAP officer that made it to the National CXCommander. I dont agree with a lot of things he did like the uniform, cahnging the term Senior Member to officer and the U.S. Civil Air Patrol thing. But he was a CAP CC and I have to honor that.

Everybody is all up in arms because he cheated on a test. I am sure he is not the only CAP Senior member to do something unethical. He just got called out because people didnt like him. i am sure that if some other members pissed the right people off, they would get called out as well. None of us are perfect. None of us can throw stones.

[JohnKachenmeister]

There is also a federal law prohibiting wear of the Air Force uniform and insignia, and the definition of "Air Force" includes CAP.  The TPU, I do not know.  

Then I muct be breaking the law then. I am an Army 1lt and a CAP capt. Am I then impersonating an Air Force senior offocer? I dont think so.

There is no law prohibiting a regular joe to buy an air force style uniform. I have never seen that law. It is ileagal to impersonate an officer by trying to pan yourself off as one. But if you buy a CAP uniform and rank from vanguard. No police officer is going to come up to you and give you a ticket.

Actually, I think there IS a law prohibiting the unauthorized wear of military insignia.  It is very rarely, if ever, enforced, but I think it is still on the books.

Also, I think you misunderstood my post.  It is unlawful to impersonate a CAP officer as well as military officers.

[CadetProgramGuy]

There is also a federal law prohibiting wear of the Air Force uniform and insignia, and the definition of "Air Force" includes CAP.  The TPU, I do not know.  

Then I muct be breaking the law then. I am an Army 1lt and a CAP capt. Am I then impersonating an Air Force senior offocer? I dont think so.

There is no law prohibiting a regular joe to buy an air force style uniform. I have never seen that law. It is ileagal to impersonate an officer by trying to pan yourself off as one. But if you buy a CAP uniform and rank from vanguard. No police officer is going to come up to you and give you a ticket.

Actually, I think there IS a law prohibiting the unauthorized wear of military insignia.  It is very rarely, if ever, enforced, but I think it is still on the books.

Also, I think you misunderstood my post.  It is unlawful to impersonate a CAP officer as well as military officers.

Actually you both are partially correct.  Once you are out, you cannot wear the AF uniform or the CAP uniform, but what is the AF and CAP uniform?

The only thing the AF owns "copyrighted" on their uniform is the buttons, since they have the AF wings.  What does CAP own of their uniform?  The epulattes ?

[JohnKachenmeister]

I have a boring job, but one with internet access.

Title 18 United States Code, Chapter 33, Sec. 702:

"Whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority, wears the uniform OR A DISTINCTIVE PART THEREOF or ANYTHING SIMILAR to a distinctive part of the uniform of any of the armed forces of the United States, Public Health Service, or ANY AUXILIARY OF SUCH, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both."

This appears to protect both the USAF uniform and the TPU.

[CadetProgramGuy]

^^^I'd like to, but can't argue.....

[SDF_Specialist]

Kach, where did you get that info? I'd like to look over it.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Google for the section.

Title 18 USC, Chapter 33, Section 702.

If you read the whole chapter you can also go to jail for an illegal depiction of Smokey The Bear.

[SDF_Specialist]

Google for the section.

Title 18 USC, Chapter 33, Section 702.

If you read the whole chapter you can also go to jail for an illegal depiction of Smokey The Bear.

Because he's a federal copyrighted image, right?

[Major Carrales]

C'mon MIKE.  You should no better than to mock this organization.  If you can't take CAP seriously when it counts...I question your resolve.

A guy who doesn't take all the ancillary (your word) stuff too seriously is a guy I want on my side.

Discussing the removal of Cadet Shoulder boards, or changing the color of CAP shoulder marks is ancillary, calling into question the validity of CAP rank is quite another.  One is of "decor" the other is of "substance."  If CAP Officers are not "real" CAP Officers, then we are not worthy...we are charlatans.  Is that what MIKE meant?

CAP Rank is traditional, it shows professional development and it is modeled after our mother service.

A CAP General is a "general in the Civil Air Patrol," that's as real as eating an apple pie at a ballpark.  

One must not come on a forum like this, in an organization with a general "inferiority complex" and make remarks that make it seem like we are posers and pretenders.  General Courter is a "real general," as was Brig General Anderson or any other you could bring forth.

I don't intend, nor will I chose, to argue over this.  

[pixelwonk]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the cow you're having.

Thanks for not arguing though.  The thread wasn't going in that direction.

[Major Carrales]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the cow you're having.

Thanks for not arguing though.  The thread wasn't going in that direction.

Bupkes!

[JohnKachenmeister]

Google for the section.

Title 18 USC, Chapter 33, Section 702.

If you read the whole chapter you can also go to jail for an illegal depiction of Smokey The Bear.

Because he's a federal copyrighted image, right?

Copyright law is one thing, but this falls under federal criminal law.  It is also a crime to use or posess a fake police badge, or use any official seals of any federal department.

[SDF_Specialist]

Google for the section.

Title 18 USC, Chapter 33, Section 702.

If you read the whole chapter you can also go to jail for an illegal depiction of Smokey The Bear.

Because he's a federal copyrighted image, right?

Copyright law is one thing, but this falls under federal criminal law.  It is also a crime to use or posess a fake police badge, or use any official seals of any federal department.

Would it be illegal to have them posted as pictures on websites like Myspace? I mean in a sense of showing support because you want to someday belong to that organization. Like say I wanted to be a part of the CIA, and I had their logo in the many pictures of myspace (which I don't). Would that be illegal as long as you are not claiming to be a part of the CIA?

[flyguy06]

I have a boring job, but one with internet access.

Title 18 United States Code, Chapter 33, Sec. 702:

"Whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority, wears the uniform OR A DISTINCTIVE PART THEREOF or ANYTHING SIMILAR to a distinctive part of the uniform of any of the armed forces of the United States, Public Health Service, or ANY AUXILIARY OF SUCH, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both."

This appears to protect both the USAF uniform and the TPU.

So, people who go to the local Army Navy store and buy BDU pants and wear cut off BDUs or BDU shirts are breaking the law? that also means that JROTC cadets are breaking the law. They are not really in the service. they ar ein High School. I have seen entertainers wear them in videos. Are they criminals as well?

[SDF_Specialist]

I have a boring job, but one with internet access.

Title 18 United States Code, Chapter 33, Sec. 702:

"Whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority, wears the uniform OR A DISTINCTIVE PART THEREOF or ANYTHING SIMILAR to a distinctive part of the uniform of any of the armed forces of the United States, Public Health Service, or ANY AUXILIARY OF SUCH, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both."

This appears to protect both the USAF uniform and the TPU.

So, people who go to the local Army Navy store and buy BDU pants and wear cut off BDUs or BDU shirts are breaking the law? that also means that JROTC cadets are breaking the law. They are not really in the service. they ar ein High School. I have seen entertainers wear them in videos. Are they criminals as well?

But they don't wear anything that could be interpreted as military. Nothing to identify Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or any of the respective auxiliaries.

[Lancer]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the cow you're having.

[Major Carrales]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the cow you're having.

And here's  Yiddish phrase for you...GORNISHT!