Active Shooter - a topic for a squadron meeting

[Stonewall]

From this article last month on CadetStuff, we have active shooter awareness training as part of our meeting this week.

Anyone else consider covering this topic?

Ladies and Gentlemen:

As a reminder, we have a guest speaker joining us to cover a sensitive, yet important topic that I am somewhat reluctant to cover, but feel it is our duty to do so.  Sgt Sandbag, a former Hooah Composite Squadron cadet (1987 - 1990), is the commander of the DoD Police - Special Response Team at High Speed Naval Station and will give a presentation on reacting to an active shooter.

While the primary audience is the cadets (i.e. in a school setting), everyone is welcome and encouraged to join us unless there are other activities scheduled for seniors or cadets that take priority.  However, other than T-Flight, all cadets will be attending this presentation.

I will find out from Sgt. Sandbag if he requires any special equipment (projector, screen, etc.), but I'm sure there will be a drill involved that demonstrates how we should react during the incident and once first responders arrive on scene.  Additionally, I will not only introduce Sgt. Sandbag, but will likely be presenting material as well as.  The entire presentation is scheduled from 1915 to 2045.

If you have questions, feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,


Lt Col Johnny Getwell Soon, CAP
Deputy Commander for Cadets
Hooah Composite Squadron

[NIN]

Just be careful.  IIRC, the last time there was a demo sort of like this in FL, heads rolled.

[Flying Pig]

Good read.  And unfortunately a reality of our times.  I have covered this with my own kids.  #1 being that under no circumstances are they to be locked in to any room, broom closet, cupboard etc.  My kids are 15 and 12 and they go to a school that does not have any interior halls. The school is in a rural mountain setting.  I told them that should there be an incident, they drop their backpacks and run for the hills..... literally. 

In many schools that may not be an option, but Im exploiting my particular circumstances. 

[Stonewall]

Just be careful.  IIRC, the last time there was a demo sort of like this in FL, heads rolled.

Yeah, I even brought that up to the CC.  No one is getting cuffed and there will be no real guns.  I'm not even sure if there will be blue/red guns involved.  But the instructor has been briefed on the previous FLWG incident and is also very aware of CAP culture.

[abdsp51]

Our safety officer here wanted to do that for a monthly safety brief and it was shot down until further collaboration could be done.  Good stuff specially given how this is quickly becoming a trend in our country.

[Flying Pig]

Training in CAP that reaches into realities of the world we live in should be encouraged.  When I taught LE active shooter response, many teachers and school admin had a very hard time with it.  Granted, that is not what you are teaching, but it was interesting being in the San Francisco Bay area, teaching active shooter and having teachers and admin telling me how they wanted it done.  The biggest issue they had were first responders (cops) stepping over wounded students and going on the offensive and chasing down the shooter.  They viewed it as typical cops just wanting to kill someone.  I got the same old garbage.... "Why cant they shoot the gun out of his hand?"  "Why cant they get him on the school PA and negotiate?"  Blah Blah....  THe teachers wanted each student cared for and moved to safety as they were encountered.  Meanwhile, the suspect is shooting and killing more on the other end of the school.

Sheep Wolves and Sheepdogs  Some people are not wired for violence of any kind and cannot process it regardless of training or presentation. 

[abdsp51]

Training in CAP that reaches into realities of the world we live in should be encouraged.  When I taught LE active shooter response, many teachers and school admin had a very hard time with it.  Granted, that is not what you are teaching, but it was interesting being in the San Francisco Bay area, teaching active shooter and having teachers and admin telling me how they wanted it done.  The biggest issue they had were first responders (cops) stepping over wounded students and going on the offensive and chasing down the shooter.  They viewed it as typical cops just wanting to kill someone.  I got the same old garbage.... "Why cant they shoot the gun out of his hand?"  "Why cant they get him on the school PA and negotiate?"  Blah Blah....  THe teachers wanted each student cared for and moved to safety as they were encountered.  Meanwhile, the suspect is shooting and killing more on the other end of the school.

Sheep Wolves and Sheepdogs  Some people are not wired for violence of any kind and cannot process it regardless of training or presentation.

This was a big thing with Columbine and the 97 Hollywood shootout. 

[Flying Pig]

Prior to Columbine, US law enforcement was ill-equipped to deal with something like that.  Those officers were set up for failure because of how they were trained.  You had supervisors on the radio calling SWAT, directing officers to set a perimeter.  Sadly, those officers on scene bare the weight of being responsible for a complete 180 degree change in how those scenarios are dealt with.  Shortly after that, LEO's nationwide were equipped with M4s and AR15s almost overnight!  If just one LAPD officer had been equipped with a .223 or .308 at the onset of the N Hollywood robbery, it would have been over in two shots.  It took SWAT responding with M4s to finally turn the tables.

The 1997 Hollywood bank robbery is really apples and oranges.  In that case, the officers did what needed to be done.   They were just outgunned.  That was not an active shooter in the context we are talking about.  In that incident, it was two heavily armed suspects trying to get away.  In an "active shooter" incident, the predators mission is to just walk around and kill people.  In almost all school or workplace active shooter incidents, the shooter did not have a plan to escape.  It was a suicide mission from the beginning.  The N. Hollywood shootout was an attempt to escape.  LAPD was doing everything they could to keep those guys INSIDE the perimeter.  In a traditional active shooter incident, forcing the suspect to flee is actually a limited form of success. 

[The Infamous Meerkat]

The biggest issue they had were first responders (cops) stepping over wounded students and going on the offensive and chasing down the shooter.  They viewed it as typical cops just wanting to kill someone.  I got the same old garbage.... "Why cant they shoot the gun out of his hand?"  "Why cant they get him on the school PA and negotiate?"  Blah Blah....  THe teachers wanted each student cared for and moved to safety as they were encountered.  Meanwhile, the suspect is shooting and killing more on the other end of the school.

Sheep Wolves and Sheepdogs  Some people are not wired for violence of any kind and cannot process it regardless of training or presentation. 

Exactly, most schools are going to pull every kid they can into their rooms and lock the door... then wait.

Naturally they don't think about the one time you bend down to check pulse on a kid could be the one time the suspect decides to come around the corner...

[Flying Pig]

The biggest issue they had were first responders (cops) stepping over wounded students and going on the offensive and chasing down the shooter.  They viewed it as typical cops just wanting to kill someone.  I got the same old garbage.... "Why cant they shoot the gun out of his hand?"  "Why cant they get him on the school PA and negotiate?"  Blah Blah....  THe teachers wanted each student cared for and moved to safety as they were encountered.  Meanwhile, the suspect is shooting and killing more on the other end of the school.

Sheep Wolves and Sheepdogs  Some people are not wired for violence of any kind and cannot process it regardless of training or presentation. 

Exactly, most schools are going to pull every kid they can into their rooms and lock the door... then wait.

Naturally they don't think about the one time you bend down to check pulse on a kid could be the one time the suspect decides to come around the corner...

It really doesnt even have to do with that.  Its that victims are piling up at the other end.  You have to stop the source of the damage first and foremost.  Because as you pull out two, the suspect just shot four more.

[Stonewall]

Some MOST people are not wired for violence of any kind and cannot process it regardless of training or presentation.

Fixed that for you.  Even people that think they're wired for violence and/or to handle high stress situations often find themselves going numb, freezing still, or unable to function.

We like to think our training and indoctrinated mind set will succeed in the end, but sometimes it is out of your control.  Hopefully muscle memory will come out on top, but if you don't train or prepare in advance, there truly is no telling what outcome you will have.

Sheep Wolves and Sheepdogs 

Also, a link to On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs.

[JoeTomasone]

Can we get a course for Senior Members that is more their speed - like how to react to an INACTIVE shooter?   


I do believe that kids need to have an introduction to topics dealing with the more unpleasant aspects of life in a thought-provoking manner.   However, the age of the audience does need to be considered; there's no need to go overboard with a realistic demonstration that shocks more than it instructs.

[Stonewall]

However, the age of the audience does need to be considered; there's no need to go overboard with a realistic demonstration that shocks more than it instructs.

This is definitely a factor that has been considered and addressed.  We're not there to use scare tactics or make everyone think they have to look over their shoulder every two seconds at school.  The guest speaker is certified by DHS (FLETC) to teach active shooter to law enforcement as well as non-LE folks in the workplace and schools. 

He actually conducted this training for the staff at both Child Development Centers on base and definitely understands where we're going with this.  My wife (a school teacher) will be there along with our two kids (6 & 4).

[The Infamous Meerkat]

It really doesnt even have to do with that.  Its that victims are piling up at the other end.  You have to stop the source of the damage first and foremost.  Because as you pull out two, the suspect just shot four more.

True, there are multiple facets, I just saw it from the officer safety aspect of actually stopping. Secure the place for EMS first and formeost, they can handle that.

[Walkman]

I used last month's CD session to cover this topic. The cadets discussed their thoughts on the roots of gun violence, whether or not they had a higher level of responsibility in emergency situations than your average teen, a little on the 2nd amendment, and even got into a little bit on cultural gender roles. We had a pretty robust discussion and I was pleased with the outcome. We ended up going over time a little, even.

What surprised me a little was how much agreement there was on many of these topics. We usually have some debate going, but most of the cadets were pretty much in line with each other. I actually started the class with a little riff from Covey's 7 Habits "First seek to understand, then seek to be understood" and made some statements about practicing the art of really hearing out another with a differing view. I also told them that I would defend anyone's right to have an opinion and would step in to prevent and ganging up on anyone.

During some GT training, we've added members acting in distress to get trainees blood pressure rising and help them to see how they might react in a real emergency. These are always out in the woods somewhere. I was just thinking about seeing if I could create some sort of emergency situation in our squadron building during a meeting. Not necessarily an active shooter scenario, but something to get everyone into a state of alert.

[Stonewall]

AWESOME CLASS!

Cadets and seniors loved it!  My buddy executed it perfectly for the audience.  I used excerpts from the CadetStuff article to start with and asked if they felt they had a greater obligation than their non-CAP peers to be a part of the solution.  A sort of moral leadership discussion. 

For the final exercise, that lasted all of 20 seconds, a "gunman" came in unannounced and the cadets/seniors reacted as they were taught.  A single responding officer (realistic scenario) went in, stepped over a "wounded" cadet, and closed with to engage and stop the gunman.

We discussed first aid for gunshot wounds and how to be a part of the solution.

Nothing but positive feedback from ALL senior members as well as a handful of parents that were there as they were invited as well.

[billford1]

There's a fairly new product http://pepperblaster.com/ that is unlike any pepper spray device out there. I'm not aware of any policy that prohibits having one of these in a public place. They should be standard equipment in schools. I'm almost afraid to ask if there a reg against a CAP member having one at an activity or mission.

[sarmed1]

There's a fairly new product http://pepperblaster.com/ that is unlike any pepper spray device out there. I'm not aware of any policy that prohibits having one of these in a public place. They should be standard equipment in schools. I'm almost afraid to ask if there a reg against a CAP member having one at an activity or mission.

In regards to this discussion I'd say bad idea.   The first thing that popped into my mind was Polish horse cavalry vs Nazi tanks in 1939.... 

2nd where true resistance is better than rolling over and letting someone kill you out right.... trying to use less lethal force against a lethal force option is more than likely to end poorly for you.

mk 

[Jaison009]

There is a fairly simplistic video out there being pushed called RUN. HIDE. FIGHT. Surviving an Active Shooter Event - English. Some people like it others do not.  I have used it outside of CAP with good success. I think it covers the details well and while violent it seems effective and would cover what a cadet should know.

[Stonewall]

There is a fairly simplistic video out there being pushed called Run-Hide-Fight: Surviving an Active Shooter found at RUN. HIDE. FIGHT. Surviving an Active Shooter Event - English

Yes, excellent video and it was brought up by our instructor to view this at home, with your family.  I posted it on our unit FB page as well.