Value of CAP

[Stonewall]

I saw this pop up on National Capital Wing's Facebook...

In 2012, the value of Civil Air Patrol's volunteer time was estimated at $155 million ... a significant return on the country's investment.

Where did this come from?  I like it.

[sardak]

The $155 million number is on the first page of the 2012 Legislative Day newsletter, available here: http://capmembers.com/media/cms/Leg_Day_National_HiRes_309A8069FA588.pdf

Page 24 of his year's financial report reads "the value of CAP's volunteer man-hours exceeded $153 million in 2011."
http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Financial_Report_2011___FM_Version__D1F633339DD0D.pdf

Mike

[RiverAux]

Considering that CAP doesn't actually track the hours of its members, this number is HIGHLY suspicious. 

[ol'fido]

That's why it's an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.  If they actually tracked them, it wouldn't be an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.   It would be a S-T-A-T-I-S-T-I-C.

[Woodsy]

Considering that CAP doesn't actually track the hours of its members, this number is HIGHLY suspicious.

My understanding is that this number only accounts for logged-in man-hours during numbered missions.  Does anyone know if that is correct?

[RiverAux]

Man hours are not completely logged during missions.
Man hours are not logged for routine CAP activities (meetings, etc.).

That's why it's an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.  If they actually tracked them, it wouldn't be an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.   It would be a S-T-A-T-I-S-T-I-C.

Even with an estimate you have to have some basis for making the claim. 

Heck, its entirely possible that the value of our time is well beyond that, but you've got to be able to back it up. 

[Eclipse]

These things aren't hard to WAG - take 1/3 of the membership, times weekly meetings, add in some other activities,
sprinkle with pixie dust, etc., etc. 

One question I'd have is the cost-basis for the estimate.  Is is based on the professional bill-rate of the member (we have a lot of medical, business and technical pros in CAP, or the price of a professional analog to the role, in which case you'd be talking everything
from educators, ES pros, lots of middle managers, and high-end executives).

[lordmonar]

Man hours are not completely logged during missions.
Man hours are not logged for routine CAP activities (meetings, etc.).

That's why it's an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.  If they actually tracked them, it wouldn't be an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.   It would be a S-T-A-T-I-S-T-I-C.

Even with an estimate you have to have some basis for making the claim. 

Heck, its entirely possible that the value of our time is well beyond that, but you've got to be able to back it up.

One would suspect that who ever came up with that number was using some sort of facts to back them up.  If you are suggesting they are wrong then it is incumbant upon you to back up your accusations with fact.

Simply gain saying them is not enough.

And I agree that yes I too believe that the number stated is probably on the conservitive side.

[SARDOC]

I'm curious how they calculate the hourly rate for a Volunteer?   Are they using the Federal Minimum Wage or are they using the GS-9 paygrade as identified in the Air Force Insurance compensation rate for CAP Volunteers?   Does anybody know?

[sardak]

The Independent Sector, http://www.independentsector.org/volunteer_time/ , calculates the hourly value of volunteer time every year. They calculate a national average, which for 2011 was $21.79, and an average for each state. Visit the website for their methodology.

Taking the CAP number of $155 million, dividing by the $21.79, then 60,000 members of CAP, gives an answer of 119 hours/CAP member.

The same page as the National legislative newsletter has the newsletters for each wing, and each of those has the value of volunteer hours for the wing and the membership of each wing. Taking a random sample of 5 wings and using state specific volunteer $/hr and the numbers from the newsletters, I come up with an average of 120 +/- [a few] hours per member for each wing.

Might be a lucky random sample, but it appears that NHQ used 120 hours/year per member as the number of volunteer hours, and the value(s) from the Independent Sector.

Mike

[Duke Dillio]

3 hours a week times 52 weeks is 156 hours, subtract a couple weeks for sick time, holidays, etc and 120 hours per member per year seems plausible.  Then you take into effect missions and other activities and I'm thinking they are way low on their estimate...

[Woodsy]

3 hours a week times 52 weeks is 156 hours, subtract a couple weeks for sick time, holidays, etc and 120 hours per member per year seems plausible.  Then you take into effect missions and other activities and I'm thinking they are way low on their estimate...

I was thinking way low too, considering there are many CAP members that put in 16 hour days at week long events several times a year.

Then I got to thinking, there are also the empty shirts you never see at meetings who show up to 2 events a year for an hour or so each. 

Probably balances out...

$21.79 per volunteer hour is a pretty rough number.  It's very hard to find a number that really works.  The non-skilled labor we perform such as cleaning up the squadron building is probably minimum wage stuff, whereas the legal officers could probably bill $50+ an hour for that stuff.

There used to be a spreadsheet on the national website called "member value" or something like that which listed dollar amounts for different types of functions and let you compute your units annual member value to the community.  I can't find it now.  I think it was somewhere in the public affairs section of NHQ's website.   

[Woodsy]

Well I found the spreadsheet in my files, but can't upload an excel file here...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Where can I get a lawyer for $50/hour?

[RiverAux]

Man hours are not completely logged during missions.
Man hours are not logged for routine CAP activities (meetings, etc.).

That's why it's an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.  If they actually tracked them, it wouldn't be an E-S-T-I-M-A-T-E.   It would be a S-T-A-T-I-S-T-I-C.

Even with an estimate you have to have some basis for making the claim. 

Heck, its entirely possible that the value of our time is well beyond that, but you've got to be able to back it up.

One would suspect that who ever came up with that number was using some sort of facts to back them up.  If you are suggesting they are wrong then it is incumbant upon you to back up your accusations with fact.

It is an undeniable fact that CAP members do not come close to having much of their time tracked by the organization.  I feel no need to prove anything beyond that. 

Now, if national has done some sort of scientifically valid survey of our members to come up with an estimate of our time, that would be just fine.  So long as they're using the number on the lower end of the confidence interval for that estimate then that statement could be 100% correct as a minimum estimate of the value of CAP members time. 

However, I'd be incredibly surprised if they went that far and I think that if such a survey took place it would have been fairly common knowledge among the members. 

Much more likely is that some guy at NHQ took a WAG based on an unscientific sample of the little data that NHQ collects. 

[Eclipse]

Where can I get a lawyer for $50/hour?

Say hello to Lionel Hutz...

Lionel Hutz - Bad court thingy

...or should I say "Miquel Sanchez"...

[Eclipse]

It is an undeniable fact that CAP members do not come close to having much of their time tracked by the organization.  I feel no need to prove anything beyond that. 

Agree 100% - very few activities even have visibility above Wing level, let alone any sort of tracking.

The empty shirt issue is a big problem for the math, since it actually skews the numbers much lower per member, and if $22ish is the real number of value, I'd have a problem with that as well.

CAP has administrative and operational expectations and requirements far beyond your average CERT team, Scout Troop, or Rec Center (its fair and appropriate, we're flying airplanes, assisting the community in times of disaster, and running a paramilitary cadet program, just saying).  Look at the bill-through rate for a CFI (or even transport pilot),  educator, web admin, or corporate consultant (which a lot of plans and programs people at all levels are functioning as). So even if you start with $22 as a "base value", you have to scale up for members who are doing more then just attending meetings, etc.

[Mslayton_24]

Considering that CAP doesn't actually track the hours of its members, this number is HIGHLY suspicious.

My understanding is that this number only accounts for logged-in man-hours during numbered missions.  Does anyone know if that is correct?

I'm not sure if that's true but in my opinion that makes the most sense. What other basis would they have to get an estimate from?