CAP and the Nuclear Tests

[Orville_third]

OK. CAP's role in the nuclear tests has been mentioned by some people at various times. (I believe both Burnham's "the Hero Next Door" and Colby's "This is your Civil Air Patrol" have mentioned it.) However, has anyone gone into any details regarding CAP's work with the nuclear tests?

I have found a report on a series of nuclear tests (Operation Cue) that contains a section on CAP's role (Written by Maj. Gen. Lucas Beau, former National Commander of CAP). You can read it here:
http://www.survivalring.org/pdf/OperationCue1955.pdf
(Pages 88-92 of the PDF)

Anyone else know of any other materials available?

[heliodoc]

Great story of the CAP before ORM!!

I am sure today's CAP's FECA FTCA and ORM would keep that mission at bay

That is the true "hot zone" the legal types may question when and if we get cleared for those DHS missions we hjave been dreaming about

This article seems to have been BITD when CAP wasn't too worried about showroom new aircraft, especially landing the the desert near Yucca Mtn....think we could be flying off lake beds today??   Maybe NV OR and CA Wing already are....... but that is a REAL mission when CAP could fly in areas without 5000 ft asphalt and concrete runways and imagine the real scrapes and scratches of the Nevada desert

[♠SARKID♠]

Our squadron houses an old CAP Piper Cub named Lil' Poof that they used to fly through the mushroom clouds to take readings.  Its still a bit radioactive, but at a safe level.

[BrandonKea]

lmao, "lil poof" that's an awesome name. Great photos!

[RRLE]

If you are doing research on this, the official name of the Operation Cue test was Apple-2. It was one of the 14 'shots' of the Operation Teapot series. You may info under either name.

[Nomex Maximus]

This might explain why some of our cadets have six toes...

[BillB]

I wonder how many Squadrons have a Geiger counter stored away somewhere?

[Smithsonia]

Not directly on the subject but CAP Courier Service ran a flight every two days Wichita, Omaha, Denver, Colorado Springs, Wendover, Seattle. The primary purpose was to shuttle people and paper to hurry up the development of the B29 by 8months to a year. This was the delivery system of the bomb. This work is mostly ignored in the Neprud book, probably due to secrecy in 1947-48 when the book was written. I've picked it up by accident while working on another project about Boeing.

I'm still doing a bunch of research in connection with my Maj. Gen. John Curry bio. That said, he was in Denver as Commander of the Technical and Training Command. CAP flew the C-46 Curtis Commando in '43-'45 on this route. It was part of the Courier Service. It is one of the great untold (or under-told) stories of the CAP. It was a significant service to the country. AND, that's about all I know at the moment.

[Nomex Maximus]

Reading the report, it seems like back in the 1950's, the Air Force had a much higher regard for what CAP could be used for.

[NC Hokie]

I wonder how many Squadrons have a Geiger counter stored away somewhere?

We have several in my squadron. Don't know if they work, but they look as new as the day they were made.

[Orville_third]

We have the ARM kit at our squadron too. I was one of the people who found it when reorganizing our new meeting place. (One of the coolest finds, along with the original copies (sort of) of the Apollo 11 photo pack.) It does look and smell rather new. It is technically USAF property and does need to be reported to the state/wing sometime, at least down here. I'm not sure if it need to be completely demilitarized, but from what I have heard, it may have some radioactive material to calibrate the counters still there. (Perhaps on the bottom?)
I'd like to make a historical display of the ARM kit and do a paper for my Senior or Master Historian Rating. (I may also try and see if CONELRAD will publish it.)
Take good care of the plane. It belongs in a CAP (or USAF or Atomic) museum!

[Major Carrales]

Reading the report, it seems like back in the 1950's, the Air Force had a much higher regard for what CAP could be used for.

Different objectives and different times.  Now a days in our litigious society the amount one could sue for possible RADIATION SICKNESS would mean the end of CAP.

[sardak]

Info on Geiger counters (radiation survey meters):
http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/civildefense/civildefense.htm

http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmuseum2/radkits/cdv700.html

ARM kits
http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmuseum2/radkits/cdv781.html
http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/civildefense/cdv781.htm

From the Office of Civil Defense (OCD) Annual Report for FY 1964: "To supplement radiological monitoring by fixed stations and their mobile surface teams, OCD plans call for establishing aerial monitoring at approximately 5,000 airports and landing strips...According to arrangements coordinated with the U.S. Air Force and the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA), the Civil Air Patrol (CAP) is expected to perform a major portion of aerial monitoring, and all States have made arrangements with the CAP for this service."

Manuals
http://www.orau.org/ptp/museumlibrary.htm#civildefensemanuals

The parent links to the above:
Civil Defense Museum

Oak Ridge Associated Universities (ORAU) Health Physics Historical Instrumentation Museum Collection

Mike

[Nomex Maximus]

I got a kick out of the part that said that in 1954 CAP was flying blood in and out of a 900 foot long stadium in Washington DC... or the transport mission of a field hospital with 16 beds, two doctors and four nurses, generator and operating room equipment... those must have been the days.

[RiverAux]

It is technically USAF property and does need to be reported to the state/wing sometime, at least down here.

It must have dropped off your official inventory years ago or else Wing and the AF would have been hounding you for it in terms of your supply reports. 

[tarheel gumby]

I can just see the legal types "having a kitten or two over that"

I wonder how the NLO would rule that type of mission?

[Major Carrales]

PLEASE STAY TUNED to 640 kilocycles for more CONELRAD broadcasts on this subject. 

[Nomex Maximus]

PLEASE STAY TUNED to 640 kilocycles for more CONELRAD broadcasts on this subject. 

The older I get, it amazes me to think of how many things a young cadet (or other teenager) has no idea what we are talking about... in that sentence alone imagine the confused look upon a cadet's face... "stay tuned" (what do you mean, tuned?) AM radio (what's that?)  kilocycles (huh?) CONELRAD (is that some CAP colonel's CAP TALK screen name?)

[tarheel gumby]

PLEASE STAY TUNED to 640 kilocycles for more CONELRAD broadcasts on this subject. 

The older I get, it amazes me to think of how many things a young cadet (or other teenager) has no idea what we are talking about... in that sentence alone imagine the confused look upon a cadet's face... "stay tuned" (what do you mean, tuned?) AM radio (what's that?)  kilocycles (huh?) CONELRAD (is that some CAP colonel's CAP TALK screen name?)

Not saying that we are OLD now are you?
I do remember taking a lot of that training. I was my squadron's RADEF Officer when I was in FLWG

[Nomex Maximus]

A sixteen year old doesn't remember:

1) the first Gulf War
2) the Vietnam War
3) the Cold War
4) the space shuttle Challenger blowing up
5) the Mir space station
6) Skylab
7) man walking on the moon
8 ) vinyl records, tape cassettes, betamax
9) Bush the first, Reagan, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy
10) telephones with wires
11) telephones with dials
12) what it was like before the internet
13) CB radio
14) Black and White TVs
15) TVs with only three channels that couldn't be recorded
16) ...

[tarheel gumby]

Good point, my 18yo son thinks that we were using muzzle loaders when I was in the NCARNG back in the mid 80's

[BuckeyeDEJ]

PLEASE STAY TUNED to 640 kilocycles for more CONELRAD broadcasts on this subject. 

The older I get, it amazes me to think of how many things a young cadet (or other teenager) has no idea what we are talking about... in that sentence alone imagine the confused look upon a cadet's face... "stay tuned" (what do you mean, tuned?) AM radio (what's that?)  kilocycles (huh?) CONELRAD (is that some CAP colonel's CAP TALK screen name?)

Heck, they don't remember this one, either, though it was a little chilling to the ears of a five-year-old (me) living in northeast Ohio in 1976:

"This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. The broadcasters in your area, in cooperation with the FCC and other authorities, have developed this system to keep you informed in the event of an emergency. If this had been an actual emergency, the attention signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news or instructions. This station serves the greater Cleveland area. This concludes this test of the Emergency Broadcast System."

Of course, we didn't live too far from an Army ammunition plant and arsenal, a large General Motors assembly facility, a ball-bearing production complex and a bunch of other assets that were fairly decent targets. Within an hour's drive, there was PLENTY of other possible targets.

Even the PBS station played the darned thing during a pre-dumbed-down "Sesame Street."

[Major Carrales]

"This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. The broadcasters in your area, in cooperation with the FCC and other authorities, have developed this system to keep you informed in the event of an emergency. If this had been an actual emergency, the attention signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news or instructions. This station serves the greater Cleveland area. This concludes this test of the Emergency Broadcast System."

I remember asking my mother if they were ever going to provide any "official information, news or instructions," I would even wait patiently for it.  My mother told me that I shouldn't want any "official information, news or instructions" because they would be my last.

What I found odd is that the EBS system was never used when we had foul weather and other such occurrences, like tornadoes.  It seemed to me that a tornado, flash flood or severe thunderstorm constituted an emergency. During those emergencies there was no "Signal," they just interrupted the programing.

Little did I know the "toooooooooooooooooooooo" "this is a test" was the warning for "the BIG ONE!!!"

That was one thing that CONELRAD had over EBS.  EBS was one of the first attempts at "politically correct" parlance.  Instead of saying "there is a real Atomic threat" where we need to Control [the effects] of Electromagnetic Radiation, we had what seemed to be a general Emergency Broadcast System that really was meant for one Emergency Only.

This concludes your CONELRAD message...we now resume your broadcast day!!!

(by the way, Civil Defense has concerned me from before I entered Kindergarden and asked what the "CD" in the triangle was.  An uncle said is stood for "Countdown [to] Doomsday."

[PHall]

PLEASE STAY TUNED to 640 kilocycles for more CONELRAD broadcasts on this subject. 

The older I get, it amazes me to think of how many things a young cadet (or other teenager) has no idea what we are talking about... in that sentence alone imagine the confused look upon a cadet's face... "stay tuned" (what do you mean, tuned?) AM radio (what's that?)  kilocycles (huh?) CONELRAD (is that some CAP colonel's CAP TALK screen name?)

Heck, they don't remember this one, either, though it was a little chilling to the ears of a five-year-old (me) living in northeast Ohio in 1976:

"This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. The broadcasters in your area, in cooperation with the FCC and other authorities, have developed this system to keep you informed in the event of an emergency. If this had been an actual emergency, the attention signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news or instructions. This station serves the greater Cleveland area. This concludes this test of the Emergency Broadcast System."

Of course, we didn't live too far from an Army ammunition plant and arsenal, a large General Motors assembly facility, a ball-bearing production complex and a bunch of other assets that were fairly decent targets. Within an hour's drive, there was PLENTY of other possible targets.

Even the PBS station played the darned thing during a pre-dumbed-down "Sesame Street."

We still get tests of the Emergency Broadcast System, or as it's now called, The Emergency Alert System, all the time here in California.
Of course we use it for Fires, Tsunamis and Earthquakes in addition to the Big One.

[Major Carrales]

PLEASE STAY TUNED to 640 kilocycles for more CONELRAD broadcasts on this subject. 

The older I get, it amazes me to think of how many things a young cadet (or other teenager) has no idea what we are talking about... in that sentence alone imagine the confused look upon a cadet's face... "stay tuned" (what do you mean, tuned?) AM radio (what's that?)  kilocycles (huh?) CONELRAD (is that some CAP colonel's CAP TALK screen name?)

Heck, they don't remember this one, either, though it was a little chilling to the ears of a five-year-old (me) living in northeast Ohio in 1976:

"This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. The broadcasters in your area, in cooperation with the FCC and other authorities, have developed this system to keep you informed in the event of an emergency. If this had been an actual emergency, the attention signal you just heard would have been followed by official information, news or instructions. This station serves the greater Cleveland area. This concludes this test of the Emergency Broadcast System."

Of course, we didn't live too far from an Army ammunition plant and arsenal, a large General Motors assembly facility, a ball-bearing production complex and a bunch of other assets that were fairly decent targets. Within an hour's drive, there was PLENTY of other possible targets.

Even the PBS station played the darned thing during a pre-dumbed-down "Sesame Street."

We still get tests of the Emergency Broadcast System, or as it's now called, The Emergency Alert System, all the time here in California.
Of course we use it for Fires, Tsunamis and Earthquakes in addition to the Big One.

Well then, good luck with the Big One.<sup>1


1</sup> Made in Korea.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Well then, good luck with the Big One.<sup>1


1</sup> Made in Korea.

You owe me a new keyboard, pal. Coffee all over the place.

[Major Carrales]

Well then, good luck with the Big One.<sup>1


1</sup> Made in Korea.

You owe me a new keyboard, pal. Coffee all over the place.

Charge it to the Corpus Christi Composite Squadron's "One Minute to Midnight" fund, see Lt. Strangelove or Lt Col Jack D. Ripper as a cosignatory.

[SarDragon]

Regarding CONELRAD, and the Cuban Missile Crisis, check out the movie Matinee, showing this week on HBO.

[RRLE]

If this had been an actual emergency,...

... which any teenager of the period would interrupt with:


"You would have been instructed to put your head between your knees and kiss your *#@ good-bye."

[Nomex Maximus]

You know, I sort of think a good learning exercise for a cadet squadron might just be to watch the movie "The Day After" and then have a discussion about what it was like and what was going on right when that movie was aired in 1983 (which also a teenager does not remember, for that matter no one under 30 remembers). If you can believe the recent TV shows, we very close to having a Soviet attack that fall because the Soviets were misinterpreting some of our actions, war games and Ronald Reagan.

[Nomex Maximus]

. . .
(by the way, Civil Defense has concerned me from before I entered Kindergarden and asked what the "CD" in the triangle was.  An uncle said is stood for "Countdown [to] Doomsday."

You know, the whole nuclear war thing sort of concerned me and I always wondered why it didn't seem to concern anyone else when I was a kid in the 1960s. People had just given up on emergency preparedness by the time I was a kid. By that time it was sort of considered "wrong" to try and do anything to prepare for a nuclear war. You would have been considered to be a nutcase if you were to build a bomb shelter in your backyard. To work towards being able to survive a nuclear war was seen as helping enable our evil government to start a nuclear war. I remember reading books at the library (from the 1950s) that showed how a relatively simple to build shelter could give you a high chance of survival even close to a big blast. But just *reading* such a book made people think you were a kook.

[Nomex Maximus]

. . .
We still get tests of the Emergency Broadcast System, or as it's now called, The Emergency Alert System, all the time here in California.
Of course we use it for Fires, Tsunamis and Earthquakes in addition to the Big One.

When I lived in California, the Big One meant earthquake...

or that Skynet had become self aware.

(and when I lived in California I was a software engineer at Cyberdyne Systems at the east San Jose office, so I should know)

[heliodoc]

Such is the business of emergency preparedness.......the cyclical on again off again we better do this 'cuz our political leaders say we should rather than taking the attitude we ought to do this because of infrastructure such as the power grid, problems with possible EMP sources that would affect all the computer equipment, etc etc etc etc.

Its easier just to go crazy, blame FEMA for this and that, leave emergency managers in the lurch and then blame them for all the problems 'cuz of "lack of preparedness," and continue to play political ping pong with the whole thing rather than take a level headed approach to the whole all risk all hazard environment.  But such is as it is now, not just the youth, but the general 30 to 45 yr old public just does not understand the issues of emergency preparedness let alone CONELRAD and the whole CD program.  CAP included.  CAP has not done enough or rather has a risk averse attitude towards even the most basic training of handling current day Ludlums or even communities that have the old CDV series rad detectors.  So CAP, whether or not being in the hot zone, has left even the most basic awareness of the nuclear "daze" in the dust by not even allowing more of the training.

Yes the days of yore and lore are gone.  Maybe if CAP want those DHS type missions back, this would be the place to start.....get with your local emergency manager and get ahold of NHQ to allow the most basic of this type of training.  Maybe some are already doing it BUT I do know CAP isn't always in this arena

[wuzafuzz]

You know, the whole nuclear war thing sort of concerned me and I always wondered why it didn't seem to concern anyone else when I was a kid in the 1960s. People had just given up on emergency preparedness by the time I was a kid. By that time it was sort of considered "wrong" to try and do anything to prepare for a nuclear war. You would have been considered to be a nutcase if you were to build a bomb shelter in your backyard. To work towards being able to survive a nuclear war was seen as helping enable our evil government to start a nuclear war. I remember reading books at the library (from the 1950s) that showed how a relatively simple to build shelter could give you a high chance of survival even close to a big blast. But just *reading* such a book made people think you were a kook.

How true, and it's not limited to war related preparedness.  When I lived in So. California I was prepared for the Big One (earthquake).  Since my house was in an expected dam break flood plain I had a weeks supplies in a roll-away trashcan I could toss in my truck on a moments notice.  Everything from spare clothes, baby supplies, you name it.  I also had my ham radios, camping gear, etc ready to go.  We also had backpack kits in each car.  My neighbors thought it was a little goofy, but guess who they came to after the Northridge earthquake? (Our utilities were down a lot longer than the rest of town.)  Most of them had their heads in the sand and honestly believed Big Brother would make it all OK.  They didn't think they had to prepare.

[Nomex Maximus]

That trashcan idea is a good one... I should do that too.

[Major Carrales]

. . .
We still get tests of the Emergency Broadcast System, or as it's now called, The Emergency Alert System, all the time here in California.
Of course we use it for Fires, Tsunamis and Earthquakes in addition to the Big One.

When I lived in California, the Big One meant earthquake...

or that Skynet had become self aware.

(and when I lived in California I was a software engineer at Cyberdyne Systems at the east San Jose office, so I should know)

Skynet has nothing on "Milo..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWZjb46uzbk

And this is not SciFi, or is it SyFy?

[RiverAux]

I came across a minor reference to CAP taking part in the response to the three mile island accident.  Didn't give any details.  Any info?

[Orville_third]

Well, CAP has been tasked in some instances with monitoring air around nuke plants (and Yucca Mountain) for radioactivity, just in case. I'm sure someone may have been flying above TMI. Anyone in PAWG know about this?

And, besides us, does anyone else in the USA do ARM?

[PHall]

Well, CAP has been tasked in some instances with monitoring air around nuke plants (and Yucca Mountain) for radioactivity, just in case. I'm sure someone may have been flying above TMI. Anyone in PAWG know about this?

And, besides us, does anyone else in the USA do ARM?

Just a couple little outfits, you may have heard of them.

The United States Air Force

The United States Army

Federal Emergency Managemeant Agency

The United States Department of Energy

The United States Department of Homeland Security

[SarDragon]

Don't forget the United States Navy. We have a bunch of ships with nuclear reactor power plants.

[BTCS1*]

only a small fleet(/sarcasm)

[SarDragon]

only a small fleet(/sarcasm)

Sarcasm acknowledged, but I'd still like you to define "small". Just so we're both on the same page here.

[cap235629]

well personally anything smaller than the fleet under Reagan is too small for me