CAP-USAF moves

[RiverAux]

As mentioned in discussions related to the last National Board, CAP-USAF has now made their move withing the internal structure of the AF according to the Montgomery AL Advertiser http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20090613/NEWS01/906130345/Civil+Air+Patrol++Air+Force+redefine+relationship

This week, CAP-USAF was realigned under the Holm Center, which oversees the Officer Training School and the Reserve Officers' Training Corps, or ROTC.

Previously, the unit fell directly under Lt. Gen. Allen Peck, commander of Air University.

I've got mixed feelings about this.  We've basically moved down lower on the food chain from working directly for the head of AU to working for one of their subordinates.  On the other hand, if you're going to stick CAP-USAF in the AETC, it makes sense to lump us in with JROTC, ROTC, and OTS.   Of course, I personally believe we would fit better with an operational command, but I suppose this makes some sense if we can't have that. 

[PHall]

Obviously they didn't consult you on this move. Shame on them!

[Maj Ballard]

I'm optimistic about this, if only for the fact that Brig Gen Djuric is very familiar with and friendly to CAP. Her son is a CAP cadet. She spoke at the SER conference this winter, and seemed great.

[RiverAux]

Obviously they didn't consult you on this move. Shame on them!

Its a shame when people forget to follow the chain of command.   

[RADIOMAN015]

Generally it is NOT a good sign when an organization gets placed LOWER on the organizational chart and is NOT a direct report to the commander.

See:  http://www.au.af.mil/au/holmcenter/

This portion of AU basically is involved Junior & regular ROTC training.    Not sure how CAP's emergency services & homeland security missions will mesh with an organization that basically is involved strictly with military training totally unrelated to direct operations support that CAP provides to lst AF.   Don't be surprised if you see a move to combine the CAP cadet program with the junior ROTC program in many ways (actually it might be better to just fold the cadet program right into junior ROTC -- If the school won't support it than it would become an after school "on site" program.   That way the CAP cadets wouldn't have to pay for anything.   The AF will pay for everything!

What is particularly disturbing in the article is about more money for fuel to fly JROTC cadets.   Basically this will put more pressure on our aircraft as far as flying hours, and it could mean that more aircraft will NOT be available for CAP cadets orientation or for that matter emergency services missions, because the aircraft will be down for 100 hour inspections etc.    I would hope that they are paying for more than fuel costs, because "someone" has to pay the maintenance charges also, that allegedly is built into the cost per hour fee.

Unfortunately, most CAP pilots love to fly on someone else dime, so I'm sure they will jump at the opportunity to fly (even ROTC Junior ROTC cadets).

I guess the bottom line in this is 2 out 3 of CAP's missions seem to align well with this portion of AU.   The big one Emergency Services doesn't.  Be VERY Vigiliant!
RM   

[PA Guy]

I guess the bottom line in this is 2 out 3 of CAP's missions seem to align well with this portion of AU.   The big one Emergency Services doesn't.  Be VERY Vigiliant!
RM

Are you saying that the Cadet Program plays second filldle to ES? Actually I agree with you, cadet dues have been subsidizing the ES prog. for yrs.

[RiverAux]

Actually I agree with you, cadet dues have been subsidizing the ES prog. for yrs.

Since the AF pays for most of our ES work, I don't think that is accurate.

[SJFedor]

Generally it is NOT a good sign when an organization gets placed LOWER on the organizational chart and is NOT a direct report to the commander.

See:  http://www.au.af.mil/au/holmcenter/

This portion of AU basically is involved Junior & regular ROTC training.    Not sure how CAP's emergency services & homeland security missions will mesh with an organization that basically is involved strictly with military training totally unrelated to direct operations support that CAP provides to lst AF.   Don't be surprised if you see a move to combine the CAP cadet program with the junior ROTC program in many ways (actually it might be better to just fold the cadet program right into junior ROTC -- If the school won't support it than it would become an after school "on site" program.   That way the CAP cadets wouldn't have to pay for anything.   The AF will pay for everything!

What is particularly disturbing in the article is about more money for fuel to fly JROTC cadets.   Basically this will put more pressure on our aircraft as far as flying hours, and it could mean that more aircraft will NOT be available for CAP cadets orientation or for that matter emergency services missions, because the aircraft will be down for 100 hour inspections etc.    I would hope that they are paying for more than fuel costs, because "someone" has to pay the maintenance charges also, that allegedly is built into the cost per hour fee.

Unfortunately, most CAP pilots love to fly on someone else dime, so I'm sure they will jump at the opportunity to fly (even ROTC Junior ROTC cadets).

I guess the bottom line in this is 2 out 3 of CAP's missions seem to align well with this portion of AU.   The big one Emergency Services doesn't.  Be VERY Vigiliant!
RM

Since we went to consolidated maintenance, the AF has been paying for ALL mx costs for our aircraft.

I don't see why it's bad to use the aircraft we have, doing so continues to justify their, as well as our, existence. If the closest aircraft to a "mission" is down for 100 hour, all is not lost. It's a pretty regular occurence in a lot of Wings anyway. All it means is that you spin up a crew from the next closest base and off they go.

Sorry to see you have such a dim view of pilots. It's not all donuts and aviator sunglasses.

[ZigZag911]

It's nice that the CG for Holm center has a son in CAP --but how long will she be there? Can we count on her advocacy & support when she moves on or retires?

CAP is a poor fit for the USAF, ever since their technology passed us by (from prop AC to jets, missiles, satellites)....I don't want to leave AF auspices, the heritage & history are important -- but we need to realize we are "distant cousins" to Big Blue!

[cap801]

If this is going to involve education stuff, I think it will be a very good move, as I feel that my time in AFROTC is much better utilized and hardly wasted as much as it is in CAP when I'm taking classes for various purposes.

[Gunner C]

Since CAP hasn't had a general officer at CAP-USAF for a long time, and it appears that we won't ever have one again, it seems to be a good fit (at least for now) to have CAP-USAF/CC working directly for a 1-star.

When CAP-USAF/CC goes to the well (the 3-star), he's vying for money and resources against three or four other GOs.  An O-6 vs an O-7 or O-8 will loose most every time.  This way, he's an O-6 vying for resources against other O-6s with a 1-star (fairly equal footing).  She goes to the 3-star and pleads our case.  Must better odds.

[Cecil DP]

Generally it is NOT a good sign when an organization gets placed LOWER on the organizational chart and is NOT a direct report to the commander.

See:  http://www.au.af.mil/au/holmcenter/

This portion of AU basically is involved Junior & regular ROTC training.    Not sure how CAP's emergency services & homeland security missions will mesh with an organization that basically is involved strictly with military training totally unrelated to direct operations support that CAP provides to lst AF.   Don't be surprised if you see a move to combine the CAP cadet program with the junior ROTC program in many ways (actually it might be better to just fold the cadet program right into junior ROTC -- If the school won't support it than it would become an after school "on site" program.   That way the CAP cadets wouldn't have to pay for anything.   The AF will pay for everything!

What is particularly disturbing in the article is about more money for fuel to fly JROTC cadets.   Basically this will put more pressure on our aircraft as far as flying hours, and it could mean that more aircraft will NOT be available for CAP cadets orientation or for that matter emergency services missions, because the aircraft will be down for 100 hour inspections etc.    I would hope that they are paying for more than fuel costs, because "someone" has to pay the maintenance charges also, that allegedly is built into the cost per hour fee.

Unfortunately, most CAP pilots love to fly on someone else dime, so I'm sure they will jump at the opportunity to fly (even ROTC Junior ROTC cadets).

I guess the bottom line in this is 2 out 3 of CAP's missions seem to align well with this portion of AU.   The big one Emergency Services doesn't.  Be VERY Vigiliant!
RM

The fact that we may be flying JROTC/ROTC orientation flights will be putting more money into our flying programs. The fact is we have a lot of planes which do not fly the minimums 200 annually required to keep the aircraft.  Increasing the amount of flying hours will help us keep those A/C and possibly get even more. But the pilots and Operations peoplle will have to have these planes available when scheduled or CAP will lose the opportunity to gain by these extra flight hours.

[BillB]

It almost looks like some people think that flying AFROTC and AFJROTC is something new and going to increase flying hours for CAP. Well CAP has been flying AFROTC for several years, and USAF approved funding for AFJROTC last year and many Squadrons have already started flying AFJROTC>

[wuzafuzz]

As mentioned in discussions related to the last National Board, CAP-USAF has now made their move withing the internal structure of the AF according to the Montgomery AL Advertiser http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20090613/NEWS01/906130345/Civil+Air+Patrol++Air+Force+redefine+relationship

This week, CAP-USAF was realigned under the Holm Center, which oversees the Officer Training School and the Reserve Officers' Training Corps, or ROTC.

Previously, the unit fell directly under Lt. Gen. Allen Peck, commander of Air University.

I've got mixed feelings about this.  We've basically moved down lower on the food chain from working directly for the head of AU to working for one of their subordinates.  On the other hand, if you're going to stick CAP-USAF in the AETC, it makes sense to lump us in with JROTC, ROTC, and OTS.   Of course, I personally believe we would fit better with an operational command, but I suppose this makes some sense if we can't have that.

I don't know about you, but I found that article thanks to Google Alerts, as opposed to any CAP source.  You'd think this would be mentioned somewhere on a CAP website.  If it is, I couldn't find it.   

[badger bob]

Technically, the realignment is for the active duty CAP-USAF side of the house, not directly affecting the volunteer side of the house. Col Hodgkins discussed the realignment as a part of his presentation to the National Boards this winter and last summer. The old alignment had Col Ward as a direct report to the 3 star more due to a lack of a slotting spot then a symbol of any clout that CAP-USF had in the past.

The Air University is not going to generate additional ES activities regardless of where CAP-USAF is pigeon holed. Additional ES taskings will come from 1st Air Force or Dept of Homeland Security. Aligning CAP-USAF with ROTC/JROTC will have to help co-missions for the cadet and aerospace education programs- as well as increase flying hours for orientation flights.

my 2 cents

[Spike]

Aligning CAP-USAF with ROTC/JROTC will have to help co-missions for the cadet and aerospace education programs- as well as increase flying hours for orientation flights.

That is what I took out of this information as well.

I have a feeling we will see more activities generated by this move.

Rumor has it that starting next summer (2010) CAP members (Senior Members) will be asked to volunteer at the ROTC Field Training events.  Much like the Coast Guard Auxiliary does for the Coast Guard at their "basic training".  It may be VSAF, or it may be CAP (with all our uniforms and bling).

We will see more joint activities with this side of the Air Force.  Some will like it, some will hate it, but I figure that anything we can do for the AF is part of our mission.

[lordmonar]

What is particularly disturbing in the article is about more money for fuel to fly JROTC cadets.   Basically this will put more pressure on our aircraft as far as flying hours, and it could mean that more aircraft will NOT be available for CAP cadets orientation or for that matter emergency services missions, because the aircraft will be down for 100 hour inspections etc.    I would hope that they are paying for more than fuel costs, because "someone" has to pay the maintenance charges also, that allegedly is built into the cost per hour fee.

We do not fly our aircraft enough as it is....and we have in no way shape or form have come close to over flying our Cadet O-ride budget.

Adding JROTC and ROTC to the O-rides puts more pressure on use to do the job we are already are supposed to be doing.

[Major Carrales]

If this is going to involve education stuff, I think it will be a very good move, as I feel that my time in AFROTC is much better utilized and hardly wasted as much as it is in CAP when I'm taking classes for various purposes.

Listen, there is a big difference between a CAP Cadet program that meets once a week and a curriculum based meet everyday (AFJROTC) or three times a week (AFROTC).  CAP Cadets do a good deal based on the fact that there are few resources for them (mostly acquired from Cadets...via fund raising...Cadet Parents or Cadet Programs Officers)

The main difference between CAP and ROTC is that CAP Cadets can actually play a "significant" role in ES activities.  For many, this fact attracts them to CAP.

What it look like to me is that the Air Force does not have a place for CAP in its chain and makes the best possible fit it can. 

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

We do not fly our aircraft enough as it is....and we have in no way shape or form have come close to over flying our Cadet O-ride budget.

We have our O Ride budget run out regularly here in California.  We always use our budget and run out quite quickly.  However, JROTC is on a different budget so it does not conflict.

[Short Field]

The main difference between CAP and ROTC is that CAP Cadets can actually play a "significant" role in ES activities.  For many, this fact attracts them to CAP.

I always thought the main difference was ROTC cadets were enrolled in a program to train future Commssioned Officers.