How Valuable is CAP to the Air Force?

[Eagle400]

Okay, so I was a cadet in CAP for 8 years... earned the Earhart... became a distinguished grad from COS... made lots of cool friends... and have a great resume because of my volunteer service.

But there is one question I never found the answer to, and that is: how valuable is CAP to the Air Force?

As a cadet, I never took the time to examine CAP's relationship with the Air Force; it was only after I got out that I began to form an interest in this.  I suppose this is because I was married to the mission and not the organization.

From what I have read online, the relationship between CAP and the Air Force was much better in years past (and by that, I mean years before I was even born).  I'm not sure exactly why, but some of the friction is due to issues that have already been discussed at length in other threads.     

But despite all that, how valuable is CAP to the Air Force?  Perhaps an even better question is, how can CAP become more valuable to the Air Force?           

[lordmonar]

Well operationally we save the USAF millions each year.

How can we be more valuable to the USAF....well that is up to the USAF to figure which missions we can help them with.

[Eagle400]

Well operationally we save the USAF millions each year.

That's all well and dandy, and I have no doubt that CAP is a cost-effective force multiplier for the Air Force.

However, given that CAP is so valuable as a cost-effective force multiplier, why would the Air Force not recognize CAP for sending members down to the Gulf Coast to provide disaster relief and humanitarian aid to the beleagured victims of Hurricane Katrina?

Seems like a slap in the face if you ask me. 

When I was in AFROTC, I went on a Summer PDT to Keesler and participated in humanitarian aid in Biloxi by helping a family rebuild their home, which the hurricane totally demolished the year prior to us coming (2006).  Before we even started on the project, the PR lady for Habitat for Humanity (the group we worked with) got our contact info so she could write an article for each of our local newspapers.

I spent about (if I remember correctly) between 3 and 5 hours helping put in a new floor, reframe a door, move tools and supplies, and do other building tasks.  After helping the family rebuild their home, we went back to Habitat for Humanity's HQ, took a group picture, and made statements to the PR lady to be included in each respective newspaper article.

When I got back home, I submitted the article and a photo of me working to go with it.  Not only did my county newspaper publish the story, but they published it throughout the entire county.  I was grateful, and did not expect the article to be published outside of my hometown.

So it is unfair and unjust that I was only doing humanitarian aid for 5 hours at the most, and still got more publicity than the hundreds of CAP volunteers who went down to the Gulf Coast and invested more time and energy in humanitarian aid and disaster relief. 

How can we be more valuable to the USAF....well that is up to the USAF to figure which missions we can help them with.

I agree.  Are there any suggestions on how to do this that the Air Force >might< consider?

[Short Field]

Lets see... as of 1 Apr, 1st AF has flown 48,688 sorties for a total of 183,214 flying hours.  CAP counted for 1,082 of these sorties.   That is is just 1st AF, not the whole USAF. 

I was briefed on CAP while in basic training.  Mainly what CAP was and that if you ever happened to see one in uniform wearing officer rank, you were suppose to salute them.  Other than that, I never heard or saw anything to do with CAP until after I retired from the AF and started looking for something interesting  to do.   

CAP performs great missions - but it is just a very small part of a big USAF that accomplishes great misisons every day.  There are lots of people serving in mission areas in the USAF that never get public recognition.  So what is the big deal - are you in it for the recognition or accomplishing the mission?

Check out 1st AF's web site and you will see CAP getting recognized.

[Eagle400]

Check out 1st AF's web site and you will see CAP getting recognized.

Check out the Air Force's historical study on Hurricane Katrina and you will find no mention of CAP.

For more info, click here: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4101.0

[Cecil DP]

I think if it was up to the Air Force we would have a bar sinister on our crest.

[jpnelson82]

I'm not so sure what our value is to the AF, aside from helping recruit, many cadets do go on to join the real AF, don't they. They say 5% of a USAFA class were CAP cadets, and I'd bet about the same number of NCO's were. All other academies and NCO's probably total 5% The inland SAR stuff does some good for the real AF... but how much  I can't say. I've heard the real AF prefers to work with us because we are "their guys" in the event of an AF plane crashing. So... draw your own conclusions about our value. Just... don't let John McCain make us part of the DOT, that would break the CAP

[BillB]

My paper for Air War College in 1972 looked at this question. For SAR and ES operations, USAF relys heavily on CAP. For Recruiting, CAP is not that much value. Using the 1965 Florida Wing Encampments, I found that of the cadets that eneterd the military 55% went into the Army. Keep in mind this was during the Viet Nam war.  The reason most often given was the Army offered a way to fly without a college degree.  During this period USAF support of CAP was much greater with AD USAF personnel assigned to every Wing as USAF-CAP Liaison officers and NCO's. Airlift was available with little problem.
Both CAP and USAF have changed since this period. USAF due to downsizing, and CAP due to corporate styructure. And thus CAP has moved away from the full time USAF Auxiliary. CAP still has value to USAF, but not to the extent of previous years.

[DogCollar]

I mean absolutely no disrespect by what I am about to write...but, these discussions about our value to the Air Force, and why we aren't receiving the attention we think we deserve, is...well, unhealthy! 

Fact is, we HAVE an ongoing relationship with the USAF.  Sometimes it's really good, sometimes not so good.  They have given us our missions, our parameters, and much of the resources for carrying out those missions.  I say let's do them to the very best of our ability...be proud of what we do...and stop being so anxiety ridden as an organization.  My .02.

[DNall]

why would the Air Force not recognize CAP for sending members down to the Gulf Coast to provide disaster relief and humanitarian aid to the beleagured victims of Hurricane Katrina?

They didn't do that for the AF. The big mission we did was for the state of MS. The rest was a montage of corporate mission to make sure our own people were okay, non-distress ELTs, and a very little bit of photo recon well after the storm. In other words, we did very little & not significant in the big picture. No lives were saved by our being there.

When I was in AFROTC, I went on a Summer PDT to Keesler and participated in humanitarian aid in Biloxi by helping a family rebuild their home, which the hurricane totally demolished the year prior to us coming (2006).  Before we even started on the project, the PR lady for Habitat for Humanity (the group we worked with) got our contact info so she could write an article for each of our local newspapers.

I spent about (if I remember correctly) between 3 and 5 hours helping put in a new floor, reframe a door, move tools and supplies, and do other building tasks.  After helping the family rebuild their home, we went back to Habitat for Humanity's HQ, took a group picture, and made statements to the PR lady to be included in each respective newspaper article.

When I got back home, I submitted the article and a photo of me working to go with it.  Not only did my county newspaper publish the story, but they published it throughout the entire county.  I was grateful, and did not expect the article to be published outside of my hometown.

So it is unfair and unjust that I was only doing humanitarian aid for 5 hours at the most, and still got more publicity than the hundreds of CAP volunteers who went down to the Gulf Coast and invested more time and energy in humanitarian aid and disaster relief. 

You're talking about a good PR person versus the quality of PAOs across CAP. Is it unfair? Sure. Does that discrimination have anything to do with what the AF thinks of us or what anyone else thinks of what we do or who we are? Not at all. It's just good PAOs versus lazy ones.

How can we be more valuable to the USAF....well that is up to the USAF to figure which missions we can help them with.

While that is technically true, we shouldn't be waiting around for the AF to come to us with new ways to utilize CAP. That's jsut not going to happen. We're not on their radar of alternative resources. CAP has to be proactive in finding needs the AF is looking at & proposing ways in which CAP can be applied to help with those items. The new cyber command is one example I've talked about before. VSAF will eventually become a good spring board for many of these kinds of items.

[isuhawkeye]

I'm not so sure what our value is to the AF, aside from helping recruit, many cadets do go on to join the real AF, don't they. They say 5% of a USAFA class were CAP cadets

Basing a national organization on recruiting is dangerous.  If CAP accounts for only 5% of the academy class then that is a significant decrease.  We use to be in the teens (I don't have a site in front of me), and as I recall 5% has traditionally been the realm of the scouts.  If CAP's recruitment numbers have fallen to the same value as the scouts, CAP is in trouble. 

I use to work very closely with the military explorer program in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Indiana.  They built a program on recruitment.  After a few years the generals got together crunched the numbers and found that the "recruitment" effort was not cost affective, and the program devolved. 



When Col. Hodgkins came to Iowa he made it very clear that CAP was very valuable to the Air Force, and that value was Emergency Services.  Specifically ELT missions. 

[BillB]

The last figures I saw from NHQ was 10% of the USAFA cadets were former CAP Cadets.

[Smokey]

I think our value varies. It depends on who you talk to.  Yes the AF bean counters love us because we are a cheap way to handle ES missions and ELTs in particular. But a large portion of the Air Force  doesn't know we exist.  I'm surprised by the number of enlisted and officers I meet who have no idea what CAP is or that we are the AF Aux.

Part of it is our own fault for not promoting ourselves but we are also our worst enemy too.  By that I mean some of our members act less than professionally, do stooopid stuff, look like they just fell off the trash truck, and represent CAP and the AF in a less than desirable manner. When that happens, the AF rightfully wants to distance themselves from that person and the organization.  We fail to live up to their expectation as a member of the military family.  We embarrass them.

While this is not true of all members, it doesn't take more than one or two to make the AF think...what a group of Bozos.  The one rotten apple spoils the whole bunch axiom.  We have those members who think of CAP as a flying club, social club, etc. who do not care about appearance, their actions, etc.  The AF  rightfully wants to distance themselves from the organization when that happens.

We need collectively to get our act together.  Shape up not only our appearance, professionally speaking, but our actions.

Maybe we need to be more discerning in who we let join. In my almost 11 years in CAP, my squadron only rejected 3 applicants that I know of. But we accepted some real boffos. Some I'm sure the AF would be very embarrassed to know they were associated with.

If we want to be more valuable, we need to first look at what we are offering to the AF.

[tribalelder]

We have value to the USAF as long as inland SAR is on the USAF's 'plate'.  SAR, at least domestically, is not part of USAF's 'core business' and would divert manpower and equipment and setting up the USAF 'network' to do this task would mean a lot of folks in far flung locations waiting for something to happen (HIGH OVERHEAD).   USAF has pretty effectively 'subcontracted' the full job, from IC level down to CAP.  As long as there is SEARCH in the task, USAF needs us-we are cost-effective.

If FEMA was responsible for inland SAR, it would just 'subcontract' it to the state's SAR authority, who would pass it down, through mutual aid agreements, to local PD/FD's.  With 406 ELT's, a lot of the search will be gone.  If you KNOW the location with 100 yards, you don't need search, you need rescue, and local first responders are the logical choice. 

[capchiro]

I think in the overall scheme of things we are good for the Air Force for the recruiting end and USAFA part of it.  We do introduce young people into aviation and the military which is a good thing for the Air Force.  Air Force needs change and there is not the size of force now that there was.  There may be a need in the future and some of our cadets will fill that role.  We also play a bigger role than a lot of you know with counterdrug and with playing with the Air Force fighters in an intruder type of role.  The Air Force respects the heck out of us in these roles and the type of personnel participating are not your squadron flunkies.  They are highly trained professional personnel.  We do get the occasional less than highly desirable at the squadron level, but we are a volunteer organization and still need logistic officers (just to pick a slot, not demeaning to logistic officers, etc.) and others to attend meetings routinely and keep up the scud work.  We all work together and we are all higher on the Air Force respect list than we think, so let's all just keep on keeping on. 

[CAP Producer]

Very well put Col Siegrist.

[JoeTomasone]

I think our value varies. It depends on who you talk to.  Yes the AF bean counters love us because we are a cheap way to handle ES missions and ELTs in particular. But a large portion of the Air Force  doesn't know we exist.  I'm surprised by the number of enlisted and officers I meet who have no idea what CAP is or that we are the AF Aux.

Agreed.   We just finished up an airshow at an AFB and during the planning meetings and event we were thanked constantly by AF personnel - but to balance this, the Airman that I signed out radios from for our use - who had us down as "Civil Air Patrol" on his paperwork, and saw me in uniform multiple times - asked me what we were and what we do.  Now, I don't fault him for not knowing and commend him for inquiring - but it was kinda surreal all at the same time. 

I was briefed on CAP while in basic training.  Mainly what CAP was and that if you ever happened to see one in uniform wearing officer rank, you were suppose to salute them.

Interesting, since AD military personnel are NOT required to render customs and courtesies to CAP members - but can if they desire.   CAP members, however, are required to render to AD when grade-appropriate.

[DNall]

The last figures I saw from NHQ was 10% of the USAFA cadets were former CAP Cadets.

This is the number that's constantly quoted, though that's as accurate & up to date as 90% of inland SaR. The truth is I don't know what the current percentage trends look like. What I do know is that number includes all cadets that have EVER been part of CAP at any time, not ones coming direct from the program. If the kid was a CAP cadet for one year when they were 12, then never associated with it again, that counts in this number. The number quoted for other service acads is 5%.

As far as NCOs, it's not close to 5%. The quantity of NCOs out there versus the number of CAP cadets... it's not remotely possible.

If you take the number of cadets we have nationally & divide that up by year group so you can see a number graduating HS each year, it's not enough to be significant in any recruiting category. You need to increase the program size by 4-5 times at min to be even a minimal force.


As far as ES... if CAP didn't take ELT missions, the AF wouldn't launch sorties to find them. The mission belongs to the states. The AF is obligated to provide AFRCC & to facilitate federal assistance when states can't do it for themselves. That's why in most cases the state gets the call first & then refers it to CAP.

Certainly if you assumed the AF would fly all those hours with C130s then we're saving them millions upon millions, but I think we all know that would not be the case.

I'm not saying CAP is useless, it certainly is not, but what it contributes to the AF is small, and in the big picture of all the AF does it's very very small. If you want them running around kissing your butt for being a volunteer, you're way off base. If you want more public exposure, train & motivate quality PAOs.

[Flying Pig]

I have never understood the issue behind the "they didnt recognize us" argument.  Who cares.  They recognize us every year when they fund our training, our missions and buy us G-1000' and Airvans.  They recognize us by having us do what they do.  WADS mission, soon to be flying UAV escorts, CD, SAR, Disaster Response, all funded by the government.  But they don't appreciate us?  Some of you must be pretty high maintenance employees in your civilian jobs.

[Smithsonia]

Might I suggest that as far as the Air Force goes we have a limited future. As more and more gadgets, satellites, and communications roll out... a large force in unsustainable and unnecessary. The same is true in the military US/Air Force itself. More gadgets mean fewer people.

Because of this -- We should embrace Homeland Security and all of their various missions, even more. If you look at CAP in its historical perspective we didn't start as a US Air Force Aux... we started as planes and pilots in search of a mission. We got the SAR account after showing what we could do and how efficiently/cheaply we could do it. We bombed Subs, of course, but we also ran lunch counters at little airports, drove bomber crews to hotels, and acted as the Pony Express as the CAP Courier Service in WW2. Some of these missions had glory attached and some did not. SO, for our own future, we should be flexible, nimble, and adroitly helpful to the country's needs. We should:
1. Become more directly connected to all things Homeland Security wise.
2. Lobby for funds through HS. and support their funding requests.
3. Do what is needed for the Air Force, certainly -- even as their need of us dwindles.
4. Get better and more professional at everything we do.
5. Expand our tasking to include things we don't yet even think about.
6. Work to fill every void and hole in Homeland Security.
7. Help establish and expand our culture, with its rich history into HS which has little and varied cultures and history.

How to do this is already modeled by the Red Cross and Coast Guard both of which offer
lifesaving awards, for instance, to otherwise competing agencies. Offer assistance, schools, training, and certifications to organizations in an out-of-the-box way. No one thinks the Red Cross or Coast Guard are anachronisms. Each has rallied behind (for the most part) Homeland Security. Each is getting new and expanding mission horizons. Each is reformulating themselves to accommodate new "holes" and new needs. I'm just a minor player and newbie at CAP... but I've got experience at other agencies mentioned above. Give it some thought. Gill Robb Wilson was certainly a mission entrepreneur -- We should be too.
We may or not be valuable to the Air Force. We need to be very important to the country. 
With regards;
ED O'BRIEN