New and Old CAP IDs

[Stonewall]

Just got my new photo ID card and looked at the back.  I think I like the back of the old ID cards better.  Here is a pic of today's vs 1990.  I'll have to go through all my old cards between now and then and see how they've evolved.  Kind of reminds me how the Annual Reports to Congress have gotten a bit, um, well, weak.  From the front cover a cadet practicing survival during PJOC to a picture of a kid, not in uniform, playing with a model rocket.

Anyhoo, just an observaiton.

[RogueLeader]

Wow. . .
Don't know what to say about that. . . .

[mikeylikey]

Hey at least they got rid of those cards made out of flimsy plastic. 

[Stonewall]

Hey at least they got rid of those cards made out of flimsy plastic. 

True, but before that, they weren't even plastic, but paper.  Had to laminate it  yourself.

[Flying Pig]

I still have one of my paper ones.....

Most fell victim to the washing machine and the dryer.  Cadet Steht, where is your ID card?  Ummmm, I washed it.

[SAR-EMT1]

I still wish they would get rid of the Mission statement!

The back of the CG Aux cards is the way we ought to go.  OR the Air Force could have us use an expired AF ID format.

[DrJbdm]

you know, the ACA uses a CAC looking card for their personnel.

   I think if CAP got off it's rear end and started mandating REAL standards then we could have CAC looking ID cards too. as it is, we seem to act and look like a bad joke and seem to want to be different then the Air Force. The ACA does things just like the Army, no wonder they have a better working relationship.

  I don't know how the CG Aux cards look, and the sea cadet IDs look similar to the old style military IDs unless they have changed in the past few years.

[MIKE]

COMDTINST M16790.1F Page 46 of the PDF has samples.  Mine is a little different 'cause it is newer and printed directly on the plastic... I think those are the older laminated ones...  the text seems to rub off of the new ones in your wallet though. 

[PHall]

you know, the ACA uses a CAC looking card for their personnel.

   I think if CAP got off it's rear end and started mandating REAL standards then we could have CAC looking ID cards too. as it is, we seem to act and look like a bad joke and seem to want to be different then the Air Force. The ACA does things just like the Army, no wonder they have a better working relationship.

  I don't know how the CG Aux cards look, and the sea cadet IDs look similar to the old style military IDs unless they have changed in the past few years.

They tried to make our ID cards the same format as the CAC a couple of years ago.
The Air Force had major problems with it and said NO!

IIRC there was a thread here on CAPTalk about it too.

[DrJbdm]

Are you really surprised the Air Force said NO! ?? Lets all take a good long hard look at us:

we make every single person who joins an officer after 6months and there is absolutely no qualifications or standards that exist to become an Officer.

We allow anyone regardless of any reason other then being a felon or a child molester to join and we may even allow someone with a felony record in some circumstances. bottom line, we refuse to have any sort of membership standards.

we seemingly refuse to make our personnel comply with uniform standards for wear, we actually go out of way to not come down hard on a violation.

  Now, given my experience those places that are more exclusive generally have little to no problems with recruiting or retention. being very inclusive like we are actually invites more problems then it solves.

   I know this was off topic...   

  OK, back on topic: I think we need to work towards getting a better ID card that resembles the current Air Force card. we need something that looks alot more official then what we have, something that looks government approved and not City Library approved.

  We do not need a mission statement on our cards, they are not supposed to be used as recruiting tools to educate the public about us. They are designed to facilitate us in doing our jobs and identifying our members. in order to that job, you don't take the most basic form allowed and say "well, make this work" you design something that's going to pass muster with the public as being official and a library card is not acceptable.

[mikeylikey]

^  The ACA is indistinguishable from an AD Army Officer until you actually get up and read the nameplate/ branch tape.  The DOD seems to have no problem with them or any other similar group.  CAP is the only one who seems to "get left out" when it comes to uniforms.

[mikeylikey]

OK, back on topic: I think we need to work toward getting a better ID card that resembles the current Air Force card. we need something that looks alot more official then what we have, something that looks government approved and not City Library approved.

We should have DOD Civilian ID cards for performing AF assigned missions.  We are classified as a GS-9 Step 1 when on the AF assigned Mission, and given military benefits when we are in possesion of an MSA.  (half the time members have problems getting on AF bases, while the crackhead that sweeps the floors at the Burger King in the PX/BX gets a DOD Card.  What the crap is up with that?!? 

Someone (or a group) with close ties to the Seanate/ House needs to approach their Senator/ Representative and see what laws we can get changed, or what new MOU's can be presented!

[Grumpy]

A couple years back, I had a member try to get onto Edwards AFB to go to clothing sales.  They not only would not allow him to get onto base with his CAP ID and driver's license, they confiscated his CAP ID.

[MIGCAP]

Just to keep things correct the USAF offered us real CAC Cards several years ago. It was our National HQ that turned them down as a hardship for the members.  When we turned them down the USAF said, not to go making some CAC lookalike.  Their position was that we could have the real thing or one that could not be mistaken for a real one. National felt that having to go to a CBPO to get one and pay for it was a hardship. I suspect the real hardship was the fact that they did not make a profit on real CAC Cards.

[Tubacap]

Wow, that's annoying.  So we now get inquisitive sometimes dirty looks when going on base because it would have been "inconvenient" to get the real thing?

Argh.

[DrJbdm]

I suspect the real they turned them down is the "corporate" mentality that those in charge seem to have these days, thats been an on going problem for the past several years. If those who want us very closely aligned with the USAF was in charge back then, we would have long since had CAC cards.

  I think sometimes National does things or makes decisions that are based on money rather then are based on operational or professional standards. Yes, alot of our members need CAC cards to make life easier, no not everyone needs them but a good number of us do.

[RiverAux]

Proof of CAP turning down CAC cards?

[BillB]

RiverAux....  I was told the same thing by a CAP-USAF NCO at Maxwell a couple of years ago. I doubt that you'll find it in writing due to time lapse.

[RiverAux]

AS we all know, you can't believe everything you hear about CAP.  There are a lot of urban legends floating around out there. 

[mikeylikey]

Just to keep things correct the USAF offered us real CAC Cards several years ago. It was our National HQ that turned them down as a hardship for the members.  When we turned them down the USAF said, not to go making some CAC lookalike.  Their position was that we could have the real thing or one that could not be mistaken for a real one. National felt that having to go to a CBPO to get one and pay for it was a hardship. I suspect the real hardship was the fact that they did not make a profit on real CAC Cards.

Interesting.  Figuring a DEERS enrolment office and ID Card Office are located in every Federal Building.  I would not find the issuing of CAC cards a hardship for members.  I would say the real hardship is the current card, the ridiculous prices Vanguard charges and Membership dues from NHQ.

[RiverAux]

Considering that the AF went through the trouble of officially prohibiting CAP from having anything that looks vaguely similar to a military identification card when they redid AFI-10-2701 in 2005, I don't really believe that they had only recently tried to get CAC cards for CAP. 

[mikeylikey]

^ True that!  Forgot about it......thanks!

[DrJbdm]

once again, are you all really surprised that the AF did that? look at us, its no wonder they want to distance themselves from us. Perhaps now is the time to take that good long hard look at ourselves and then make a strategy to regain the AF trust, respect and image. We have a lot of major changes to do in order to change the negative perception that the AF seems to have for us. The answer is not to pull away even further and do our own thing, that would only add to our problems. we have to do the changing, not the USAF.

[Smokey]

I was told the wording on the back of the card that said ...." Please provide any  assistance necessary to the bearer of this card in reaching a duty assignment in a civil defense emergency" was removed because someone (probably a lawyer) thought members might use that provision to comandeer a vehicle, or it would be used to get a break from the cops should a member get caught breaking a traffic law and claim they were enroute to a duty assignment.

[PHall]

I was told the wording on the back of the card that said ...." Please provide any  assistance necessary to the bearer of this card in reaching a duty assignment in a civil defense emergency" was removed because someone (probably a lawyer) thought members might use that provision to comandeer a vehicle, or it would be used to get a break from the cops should a member get caught breaking a traffic law and claim they were enroute to a duty assignment.

You gotta remember that that little blurb was put on the cards back in the fifties when Civil Defense was a very real deal.

[DrJbdm]

You could add in the words: "while in the performance of official duties on an Air Force Assigned Mission, the bearer of this ID is considered to be a instrumentality of the United States of America and of the United States Air Force"  something to that effect might help us in doing our jobs.

[PHall]

You could add in the words: "while in the performance of official duties on an Air Force Assigned Mission, the bearer of this ID is considered to be a instrumentality of the United States of America and of the United States Air Force"  something to that effect might help us in doing our jobs.

Funny, in over 30 years of membership including more late night ELT missions then I can count, I've never needed a statement like that on my CAP ID card.
Not even at 0200 while talking to a curious cop who wanted to know what's going on.

[RiverAux]

The only people who have ever seen my CAP id card are other CAP members.  Our base doesn't care that I'm in CAP and just wants to see drivers license and registration. 

[Stonewall]

No one has ever read the back of my CAP ID either.  My point of this thread was to support my observation that CAP has moved further away from a military type organzation into more of a softer more comfy place for kids to hang out.  Maybe those aren't the right words, but in fewer words, more wimpy.

Looking back to my cadet daze, I thought it was the coolest thing to have those words on the back of my CAP ID.  Made me feel kind of cool; sort of real.  Again, one of the reasons why I joined CAP after leaving the Scouts.

[PhoenixRisen]

Just to throw a question out there un-related to CAP ID cards:

It sez on the DoD Website for the Common Access Card that they were going to start to issue new versions ("Next Generation") starting way back on October '06.  (As shown here [Linky].)

My question is, why haven't they started issuing them?  Would anyone know?

My dad still has the old-style (Navy-civilian type).

And then on a note related to CAP - being that they're going to start to issue new ones, would this be a good thing for CAP? 

[docspur]

In November I went to Ft Campbell to visit a buddy of mine.  At the gate I turned in to get a pass, took in my CAP picture ID, DL, and insurance card...got a pass no problem...went through the gate & showed CAP picture ID and pass no problem.  I've been to Scott AFB and Ft Leonardwood...never had a problem getting on Base or Post.  If someone has had a problem I am just wondering what all happened...did the person go to get a pass first or just drive up to the gate?  That could be a problem if you haven't been given a pass first.  Or could there have been an attitude problem?  I do get asked what my business is and I've always got a good reason, whether visiting a buddy, was there for training, or going to clothing sales.  I've never just driven up to a gate "just because I wanted to go there."

[mikeylikey]

Anyone remember when posts/ bases were open, and there was no guard sitting in the shack?  Before 2001, it was seldom you would find a gate guard at any Army Post.  Somewhat seldom to find one at an AF base.  However, the Navy has always seemed to have guards.  Heck......I went to Quantico last year was just waived through without the Marine checking ID.  I hope they changed that. 

Back to topic.  I just got a new CAC, and the only thing different from previous CAC's was it only said "Army".  Before it said Active Duty.  I suppose they did that so everyone feels like they are the same. 

I have no idea what the deal is with those new ID Cards.  But when they are introduced, there is no reason for CAP to get one that says "Volunteer", "Auxiliaries" etc.  The guy flipping freaking burgers at the BK will get one, but not CAP.

[Stonewall]

Back to topic.  I just got a new CAC, and the only thing different from previous CAC's was it only said "Army".  Before it said Active Duty.  I suppose they did that so everyone feels like they are the same. 

You must have had the same CAC for about 2 or 3 years then.  They got rid of the "ACTIVE DUTY" thing a few years ago to make the Guard and Reserves feel more like part of the total force.  My CAC just says "AIR FORCE", looks just like AD AF's CACs.

And yes, I remember open bases.  Ft. Belvoir used to be totally open except for the main gate.  Same with Ft. Bragg, Ft. Benning and Ft. Stewart.  You didn't even know you if you were on or off base half the time.

[Grumpy]

I don't, but I remember pulling duty at the Main Gate during the 60's.

[PHall]

I don't, but I remember pulling duty at the Main Gate during the 60's.

About the only "Open Base" that I can recall is Edwards AFB, CA. They didn't even put a fence around the place until 1985!

[Grumpy]

You got that right Phil.  I was in that squadron for three years as a reservist and we didn't have to pull gate duty.  Matter of fact when I moved from Quartz Hill (Lancaster) seven years ago they still were not manning it.