Discussion of Moving CAP To Air Force Reserve Command

[RiverAux]

Unless such a move came with a MAJOR re-evaluation of CAP's purposes and strategic direction it would be nothing more than moving boxes around on an organization chart.  No big deal. 

It would be interesting to see what official justifications would be put forward within the AF for such a move.  You would think they'd need to come up with some pretty solid reasoning. 

[jimmydeanno]

CAP is bigger than AFRC.  Not quite sure they would "want" that elephant in the room with them (heh)

CAP is bigger than AETC as well.

40,000 active duty members, over 3,000 Reserve and Guard personnel, and approximately 14,000 civilians assigned

The numbers above reflect 57,000.

[lordmonar]

If the issue is money......and it is always about money.

Moving us from AETC to AFRC or ACC moves us to a larger pot of money.
But it puts us at the end of the budget fight.

ACC will only look at us in ways that it will help their operations.  CP and AE will be a third wheel in their eyes.
AFRC IIRC does not have their own operational budget.  They get their ops budget from the command they support....so again we will be behind all those operational concerns.

The problem with moving us the the NG is that they are even worse off for operation funding.  And operationally the NGB is not an operational command...but a coordinating command.  NG operations for the most part fall compeletly within the STATE level.....so again it would put us behind all those operational units when fighting for money.

Also please note that the USAF is right now looking at ways of cutting both the NG and AFR to support AD operations....so a move that way right now would not necessarily be a good thing.

As Riveraux said....unless there is also a change in the conecpt of operations....moving us does not really help us at all.

[abdsp51]

ACC, if it don't fly we don't buy.

[lordmonar]

ACC, if it don't fly we don't buy.

Unless the Army wants to buy it......"oh.....okay we'll do that for you!"

A-10
UAVs
CAP SP program.

BTDT!

[abdsp51]

Yup, spent 3 1/2 years in ACC, never again.

[flyboy53]

So, it seems we've finally come full circle and back to the days when CAP was aligned with AFRES and ANG under the Continental Air Command...guess I'm not surprised with the mission tasking of First Air Force....could this also mean that we're not going to be red-headed step children anymore?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You know it may be something that makes mission call out easier being under AFRCC.

[lordmonar]

You know it may be something that makes mission call out easier being under AFRCC.

How much eaiser can it be then now......the requestion agency just calls the NOC/AFRCC and they issue the mission number.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Right, they call AFRCC, not Air Education. It could be that someone sees it as taking someone elses personnel. It could be something completely different. But if it could possibly mean we could be held in a better light, I'm all for it!

[RiverAux]

Sorry, that doesn't fly.  Who else in the AF is going to call us other than the people that are calling us now?  Who is afraid to call us because we're under AETC?  If you're talking about people outside the AF, they probably have no clue who we work for when we're not on a mission and they don't care.  As was said, they call NOC or AFRCC. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That's not what I meant, let me try again.

It might be easier for admin purposes or what have you to have us under AFRCC than AETC, because our search and rescue missions, ELTs and such, are given by AFRCC. Just a thought, I don't know how valid it could be, but it would make sense to me.

[lordmonar]

I agree...that it makes sense to put us under 1st AF...because the ES chain runs through them....that way there is no cross command issues....i.e. we always belong to ACC....not just when we are flying ES.

But...the down side to that is 1st AF won't care too much about the CP or AE mission...which AETC does care about....which would hurt funding in those areas.

[flyboy53]

I agree...that it makes sense to put us under 1st AF...because the ES chain runs through them....that way there is no cross command issues....i.e. we always belong to ACC....not just when we are flying ES.

But...the down side to that is 1st AF won't care too much about the CP or AE mission...which AETC does care about....which would hurt funding in those areas.

Also, there is an AFRES or AFRC presence through AFRCC. I don't think cadet and AE programs would be hurt because those are our assigned missions.

Wonder if this means that CAP's NHQ would move to Warner-Robins? But, I'd bet not since Maxwell has a Reserve unit (908th Airlift Wing) and falls under 22nd Air Force.

[FW]

You guys are really making me smile.  However, my popcorn bag is about empty and, before I gobble the last kernal, I must remind everyone we are NOT moving anywhere. CAP is a "Federally Chartered Non Profit Corporation".  AFIs clearly make it known we are NOT a part of the Air Force (as its Auxiliary) unless we are on a AFAM.  It also states that AE and CP are not part of that Auxiliary Status.  CAP deals with AU thru CAP-USAF whch acts as the Liason agency between us and the AF.  It is they who may "move".  No one will be going anywhere physically.  Especially after a multi million buck renovation of the HQ building. 

And, if there is such a "move".  I can assure you there will be absolutely no difference in what we do now. 
Now that I got that off my chest, please continue.  I still need to lick the butter off the bag...

[ColonelJack]

I still need to lick the butter off the bag...

Somehow, Colonel, the mental picture that conjured up was ... weird ...

And you're a dentist.  You oughta know better than that!   

Jack

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

So, it seems we've finally come full circle and back to the days when CAP was aligned with AFRES and ANG under the Continental Air Command...guess I'm not surprised with the mission tasking of First Air Force....could this also mean that we're not going to be red-headed step children anymore?

It's going to take a lot more awareness of who and what we are among the AF, and reconciling the split personality CAP has, before we'd ever shake that status.

I'm not holding my breath.

[Eclipse]

Discussed or not, I'd be willing to bet that any change of that magnitude wouldn't get beyond the second latte until the current issues with the reorg of the SD's, which includes re-writing almost every AFI and CAPR, are at a steady state.

[arajca]

One positive note I heard about this move is there are fewer steps in the food chain between CAP and the upper echelons to fight to keep our funding.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

ACC, if it don't fly we don't buy.

Unless the Army wants to buy it......"oh.....okay we'll do that for you!"

A-10
UAVs
CAP SP program.

BTDT!

G-91.



There are times when I think CAP would be better off with the Army than with the AF.

Our cadets could somehow integrate with the USAC, we could learn a lot of ground team procedures from National Guard SAR units/instructors, and we could potentially have access to Army aircraft clearly marked as humanitarian:



What that would mean for our own aircraft fleet I honestly don't know.

Maybe paint them in Army colours with the CAP roundel?



And maybe...just maybe...we wouldn't have the uniform hassles we have today?