CAP Cleaning House?

[JayT]

My comments in red.

Pump your breaks a little Sergeant, what Captain Steht said is good advice. Really good advice.

It doesn't matter if you're the second highest cadet in your squadron. You're still a cadet, a student. Would you give a superior officer an attitude in person? Why would you do it over the internet? Yeah, it's an 'informal' discussion board, but who knows who you're going to run in during the course of your career?

Throughout the rest of your life, you're always going to be in some relationship with a boss or supervisor. Right now, in CAP, the consequence of being disrespectful are relativity minor in the scheme of things.

When you get to college, you'll communicate with your professors and TA's over discussion boards and eMails. Even the 'virtual' classroom has a level of decorum. I've been in situations where my TA is actually younger then me, but you still talk to them respectfully because they're the one grading me. When I post on EMS related boards, I still make sure I run stuff through spell check, because, frankly, these are the same people I hope to work for at some point in my life. I'd rather be the kid they remember from the forum who asked an interesting question then the one who made an ass of himself.

If I have to talk to one of my supervisors over email, I wrote the same way as if it's a formal letter. If I run into one in the bar, they're still 'Sir' or 'Boss' until they tell me otherwise.

Frankly, many of your posts have consisted of a bunch of smiley faces or 'plus one.' Is that really contributing anything?

Listen, we're not busting on you because we don't like you, want you, don't value your opinions or views. We're busting on you because it's important to reinforce the lessons you learn at your CAP meetings. I went through a phase where I was mouthing off and being extremely disrespectful to older, wiser, and higher ranking officers here and on CS and the only thing it did was give those guys a bad impression of me, and make them less likely to hear me out.

I'm only twenty two years old. Since I was a cadet, I realized the most important lessons that I learned in CAP was the value of respect and courtesy. Those values don't end just because you're behind a computer screen, or not in uniform.

[SJFedor]

^--- True story.

[HGjunkie]

My comments in red.

Pump your breaks a little Sergeant, what Captain Steht said is good advice. Really good advice.

It doesn't matter if you're the second highest cadet in your squadron. You're still a cadet, a student. Would you give a superior officer an attitude in person? Why would you do it over the internet? Yeah, it's an 'informal' discussion board, but who knows who you're going to run in during the course of your career?

Throughout the rest of your life, you're always going to be in some relationship with a boss or supervisor. Right now, in CAP, the consequence of being disrespectful are relativity minor in the scheme of things.

When you get to college, you'll communicate with your professors and TA's over discussion boards and eMails. Even the 'virtual' classroom has a level of decorum. I've been in situations where my TA is actually younger then me, but you still talk to them respectfully because they're the one grading me. When I post on EMS related boards, I still make sure I run stuff through spell check, because, frankly, these are the same people I hope to work for at some point in my life. I'd rather be the kid they remember from the forum who asked an interesting question then the one who made an ass of himself.

If I have to talk to one of my supervisors over email, I wrote the same way as if it's a formal letter. If I run into one in the bar, they're still 'Sir' or 'Boss' until they tell me otherwise.

Frankly, many of your posts have consisted of a bunch of smiley faces or 'plus one.' Is that really contributing anything?

Listen, we're not busting on you because we don't like you, want you, don't value your opinions or views. We're busting on you because it's important to reinforce the lessons you learn at your CAP meetings. I went through a phase where I was mouthing off and being extremely disrespectful to older, wiser, and higher ranking officers here and on CS and the only thing it did was give those guys a bad impression of me, and make them less likely to hear me out.

I'm only twenty two years old. Since I was a cadet, I realized the most important lessons that I learned in CAP was the value of respect and courtesy. Those values don't end just because you're behind a computer screen, or not in uniform.

Does it really matter how many smiley faces I use? I use them so people can relate them to how I feel about something when I post. And BTW, not a whole lot of my posts are +1 types.

All members will respect the opinion and dignity of other members, whether or not they may be present.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and certainly discourse on varying opinions is excellent. However, members will not attack others based on their opinions and beliefs, regardless of whether they agree or not.

The  discussion boards are intended to be an open community where all Civil Air Patrol members can participate freely.

This is where my opinion comes from- the membership CoC on CAPtalk.

I think on CAPtalk everybody should be on the same level with one another, Sm or cadet.

In the words of ICENINE, "It's nice to want things...".

Welcome to the internet - "freedom of speech" does not equal "freedom from responsibility for what you say or how you say it".
It is a lesson hard-learned by many.

I'm not saying we should adopt a "fire and forget" mindset about posting, but that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and even though we don't have to agree with someones opinion, we should respect that they have that right.

You can have your opinion all day long.  That doesnt mean you have the right to voice it. Umm, excuse me? care to elaborate? Many a young cadet has learned that the hard way.  One of the draw backs of the internet.  In a SQ setting, you, as a C/SSgt would not typically be permitted to stand around and just shoot the breeze with Seniors about the things we discuss here. Well, since i'm the second highest ranking cadet in the squadron, and have good relations with my Commanders, we do talk about CAP related things. Here, you are able to because its the open internet.  So by coming on CAPTalk, cadets are afforded a privilege outside the realm of the Cadet/Senior relationship.  In my unit,  I would be talking to the DCC and asking why C/SSgt HGJunkie is out of place and not with his flight. Could you elaborate? I can't understand if your saying this would go on because it happened at Sq. or online.
You think we are equals because on CAPTalk, LTC Joe Smith can post a response and immediately after, C/B Yahoo can post (anonymously or not, their choice) telling LTC Smith hes full of himself.  Because of your access to us here on CAPTalk, you may think we are equals, but we are not.  If you have the word "Cadet" anywhere in your title as a CAP member, you are not a peer and are not equal.  You are a subordinate and I am your superior.  You are not any less important or any less valued.  In fact, I would say you are more "important" than any Senior Member.  However, do not forget your place in the food chain.  A lesson that will pay you dividends in the end.  BELIEVE ME! Really? Even though my cadet status only applies to me when conducting CAP official business? I think if a person can be mature about their posts and back up their POVs, arguments, etc, and contribute to the forum, then they should be equal to everyone on the forum ON THE FORUM.
This does not mean we cant have discussions. I know many cadets who are grown men and women and are very educated.  But again, superior vs. subordinate relationship until you switch to the Senior side. Yes, while conducting official CAP business.

Anyways, I thought this Forum was to act as "a discussion Board for the Civil Air Patrol community," not a place to remind cadets of their place in the "food chain."

You know, I never really considered cadet participation and the like.

I don't see anything wrong with respecting boundaries (calling one "cadet" or "sir" in this case) or in expressing disagreement respectfully.

I think one thing that is a bit "over the line" is when we take an on-board issue and bring it into CAP.

CAP Talk, while fun, is not a CAP event. It is a rather informal gathering of CAP members in cyberspace. If a cadet or a senior says something and we then try to take it off of the board, that is a boundary I think we should not cross.

If a cadet (or senior) is overly disrespectful, I say suspend them from the board, don't approach their unit.

You nailed it Ma'am.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

My comments in red.

And without going too far into it, you stated somewhere above that

my cadet status only applies to me when conducting CAP official business

Allow me to remind you this. You're in a public forum, representing yourself as a member of the Civil Air Patrol (as indicated by your insignia in your signature line), and as such, you are expected to conduct yourself in a professional manner as a CAP cadet, including understanding your place in the food chain. If you have knowledge of the subject matter, by all means, contribute to it, but as you are a younger, just-into-Phase 2 cadet, odds are you don't have a lot of subject knowledge on the in's and out's of how this organization works, and while your opinions should be used to judge what you read here, and using this to learn more, you probably need to do less talking and more learning.

Just because you're behind a computer screen and not sitting their in uniform (unless you're someone that does, in which case, to each their own) does not excuse you nor make you less responsible for your conduct and remembering your place in the food chain. This is all too true in real life, and this is something you'd be much better for learning early on. Many people have been subject to discipline, suspension, or firing from their jobs because of the stuff they put online. Just because you're not acting in the role when you post it, doesn't mean you're not still responsible for it.

I actually do have a basic knowledge of how things work in CAP.

And nowhere on this Forum did the admins put a post up that says cadets should remember that they're low in the food chain compared to the SM's on the board. They actually posted that this is a board where members can participate freely. They just put up that there should be a professional manner in which we conduct ourselves, which you and flying pig interpreted as the chain of command. And i'll say it again, Lt Oliv nailed it on the Head.

[RVT]

The exclusive contract with Vanguard affords CAP certain monetary benefits.  Not having to supply their members through an "in-house" store removes a significant amount of overhead from the books in the form of employees, inventory, insurance, etc.

There has to be more to it than that.  Every Coast Guard Aux district (their equivalent of a Region) has its own store, and any member can buy from any of them.  National is not even visibly involved.