I'll ask this here since it applies to both CAP History and Cadet Programs. Late in the 1940's I got a phone call from the Wing Commander telling me I was appointed a Cadet Brig. General. However a week later he called and said that ROTC complained that since they didn't have Cadet Brig Generals, CAP couldn't. At the time the highest grade in the cadet program was a cadet major, so to me it didn't make sense, but hey, I was a teenager, what did I know. I und3erstand that nationally six cadets were appointed a C/BGen in the short period, One in FL, GA, NY, CA and I'm unsure of the rest. Anyone have any information on the Cadet Brig General history?
I thought we sent cadets to Hawk Mountain to get big heads so I'm surprised we ever made any Generals.
;)
Well, I have a set of old cadet rank insignia, both NCO and officer, and always wondered what the gold diamond was for.
(http://i.imgur.com/aKUNa.jpg)
Except gold comes before silver in the rank insignia.
the gold pips were cadet flight officer
I can't begin to imagine what the purpose of a C/BG would be, but the fact that you were appointed seemingly at random
to a position which you didn't even know existed, then to be told it didn't exist at all, just shows how little has changed in the
70 some years CAP has been around.
It goes like this (in my mind):
C/WO - 1 gold circle
C/2LT - 1 silver circle
C/1LT - 2 silver circles
C/CPT - 3 silver circles
C/MAJ - 1 silver diamond
C/LTC - 2 silver diamonds
C/COL - 3 silver diamonds
So where does the gold diamond come in, or was the rank structure a lot different way back when?
Oh, and notice the diamond in the C/MSGT chevron
Weve been having this discussion since I was a cadet in the 80s. I was always of the belief it was an urban legend. However since you state that in the 40s you were one. I would venture to guess it was an unofficial "local" idea that never had any official purpose or regulation attached
to it.
I have never seen a gold diamong, have no idea what that is. The C/BGen was four diamonds. Since CAP at the time had no CLCol, I got two CLCol insignia from ROTC and soldered them together. But never got to wear them before the phone call from the Wing Commander, Col Joe Moody told me the grade had been canceled. Still have the four diamond insignia around somewhere. Doubt it was a "local" thing since the six appointments all occured at the same time and were widely spread across the country.
Oddly enough, a google search pointed me right back here. I found an old thread about it:
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4079.0 (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4079.0)
Someone says, if you don't want to go look, that Army ROTC had, at one time, C/BG and C/MG, one and two gold diamonds respectively. So, while most of my cloth rank is CAP, an AROTC cutout snuck in somehow.
Case closed, on my end.
Quote from: BillB on August 31, 2012, 08:12:14 PM
I have never seen a gold diamong, have no idea what that is. The C/BGen was four diamonds. Since CAP at the time had no CLCol, I got two CLCol insignia from ROTC and soldered them together. But never got to wear them before the phone call from the Wing Commander, Col Joe Moody told me the grade had been canceled. Still have the four diamond insignia around somewhere. Doubt it was a "local" thing since the six appointments all occured at the same time and were widely spread across the country.
The fact that you had to build your own grade insignia should have been clue #1, the fact you had no idea you were even up for #2, and jumping 3 clicks without even taking a test #3.
If there were a C/BG, every cadet would know day-1 how to make it. Odds are it was local to the wings doing it, or somebody's bright idea that was never vetted, saw light, and got kiboshed.
I seem to recall that I wore the gold pip after I received my Mitchell in 1974. I also believe I was a Warrant Officer. I was later promoted to 2Lt. That was a long time ago and I have slept since then so my recollections might be wrong. Not sure about the gold diamond.
Gold pip is a C/ Flight Officer. I was one about 1989-90 time frame
Interesting if it were true! Four diamond pips are out there in Marine JROTC land. Not sure how they are used though...
Four diamond pips (http://www.vanguardmil.com/marine-corps-jrotc-rank-quadruple-diamond-p-8277.html)
Just to confuse things a bit, lets add quad round pips too!
Quad round pips (http://www.vanguardmil.com/marine-corps-jrotc-rank-quadruple-disc-p-8278.html)
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 31, 2012, 09:25:13 PM
Gold pip is a C/ Flight Officer. I was one about 1989-90 time frame
Before that it was a c/WO.
Gold pip was C/Warrant Officer until about the early 80s, when the title changed to C/Flight Officer. This was around the time the flight officer grades were introduced.
Wow...six posts saying basically the same thing. Wow. And I though I had a lot of free time on my hands... :P
http://chicagojrotc.entest.org/city_corps_staff.jsp (http://chicagojrotc.entest.org/city_corps_staff.jsp)
^^^ Here's a Cadet Brigadier General in JROTC (4 diamonds)
As for a need: How about the senior ranking cadet who acts as an advisor to the National Commander on all things cadet. Kind of like the Command Chief Master Sergeant but in cadet form?
Quote from: JK657 on August 31, 2012, 11:19:37 PM
As for a need: How about the senior ranking cadet who acts as an advisor to the National Commander on all things cadet. Kind of like the Command Chief Master Sergeant but in cadet form?
We already have this position, and it's called National Cadet Advisory Council Chairman.
Eclipse
There were no more tests to take. I already held the Cadet COP with three clasps. There were no more achievements to take a test for. Col Joe Moody, the Wing King told me I would be an advisor, but he never said advisor to what. And since there were five other cadets made C/BGen at the same time, it would not have been a local thing. I'd guess something came up at an informal meeting at a Board meeting and the Wing Kings went forward with the idea.
Only six of you?
I guess we didn't have all the states yet .. ;) and didn't have all these regions.
Back in the day when news traveled by carrier pigeon and pony express. Air mail was when the Stearman went overhead and turned inverted so the mail bag would fall out onto the meadow below.
:)
Quote from: Garibaldi on August 31, 2012, 07:56:53 PM
It goes like this (in my mind):
C/WO - 1 gold circle
C/2LT - 1 silver circle
C/1LT - 2 silver circles
C/CPT - 3 silver circles
C/MAJ - 1 silver diamond
C/LTC - 2 silver diamonds
C/COL - 3 silver diamonds
So where does the gold diamond come in, or was the rank structure a lot different way back when?
Oh, and notice the diamond in the C/MSGT chevron
I wore that rank back in 1962. The diamond indicates First Sergeant. When I left that position, I lost the diamond.
Back in the 1970s and into the 1980s, MI Wing would award "discretionary grade" for encampment. You got picked to be a Flight Commander, you got frocked to C/1Lt for the duration of the encampment. (yes, you frequently had cadets who would wear their impending grade to their unit meeting the week before encampment, or the week after, claiming "Oh, I had to sew it on.." *boot to the head*)
At the time, the Cadet Commander of encampment was a discretionary C/Col. Well, this didn't sit well with some folks (*cough*Spaatz Mafia *cough*), so instead of making the Cadet Commander a c/Lt Col, Some Joker™ came up with the Bright Idea™ to make the Cadet Commander a C/BG.
I have seen (although not worn) C/BG in all forms. Cloth, shoulder boards, full-size, minis, etc.
The full-size and mini- C/BG were made by soldering together 2 C/Lt Col. The cloth were also 2 C/Lt Col stitched together. In the interest of discretionary-ness, the cloth insignia was built around a 2 or 3 ribbon bar so it could be pinned on.
The C/BG for the shoulder boards was most interesting. Since 4 full-size diamonds placed vertex-to-vertex would exceed the width of the shoulder boards, the diamonds were cut down slightly where they met to fit on the boards. They actually looked *quite* cool.
Opps, didn't see that link already posted on this thread
is it me or do some of them cadets in chicago have their ribbons on the wrong side?
The rule is when wearing medals, they are worn on the left. ribbons that . do not have medals are worn on the right. So if you were to wear your Purple Heart, Achievement Medal, Good Conduct, Iraq, and GWOT medals,shown in your signature block, the CAR, NUC, and MUC would be worn on the right side.
Quote from: MSG Mac on September 02, 2012, 12:38:43 AM
The rule is when wearing medals, they are worn on the left. ribbons that . do not have medals are worn on the right. So if you were to wear your Purple Heart, Achievement Medal, Good Conduct, Iraq, and GWOT medals,shown in your signature block, the CAR, NUC, and MUC would be worn on the right side.
Dang. I thought it was just old age and my eyes were going bad. Learn something new every day. ;)
Quote from: MSG Mac on September 02, 2012, 12:38:43 AM
The rule is when wearing medals, they are worn on the left. ribbons that . do not have medals are worn on the right. So if you were to wear your Purple Heart, Achievement Medal, Good Conduct, Iraq, and GWOT medals,shown in your signature block, the CAR, NUC, and MUC would be worn on the right side.
For which branch? USAF, AFJROTC, AFROTC, and us wear all ribbons regardless of medal or not on the left.
US Navy and USMC do this... US Army habitually wear unit awards on the right, personal on the left. For what it's worth, in the Navy, this is only the practice when wearing full-size medals, which is not done in the USAF (unless you're the CSAF or CMSAF and get the Dress Snazzy Uniform (DSU))
Quote from: BGNightfall on September 02, 2012, 01:16:47 AM
US Navy and USMC do this... US Army habitually wear unit awards on the right, personal on the left. For what it's worth, in the Navy, this is only the practice when wearing full-size medals, which is not done in the USAF (unless you're the CSAF or CMSAF and get the Dress Snazzy Uniform (DSU))
Depending on the function the presidential honor guard wears full medals.
Thats what i was mentioning, i know which medals i would wear on my right and left on my dress blues. I thaught cadets/jrotc only wore them on the left side, medals and all. When i was in Army and Navy JROTC thats how it was, unless branches are different?
I attended Marine Military Academy and we wore the dress blues. In MCJROTC if you are awarded an actual medal and in Dress Blue Alphas you wore the medal on the left and your ribbons on the right with no shooting badges. The thing that made it look off was that most of the time only juniors and seniors re awarded medals and the most I ever saw someone get was three or four. Where as they would have nine to twelve ribbons at most, many just had six. So they'd have six ribbons on the right and only one medal on the left.
Even at MMA we had a cadet Lieutenant Colonel and that was the highest you could go.
I went to Texas A&M for my masters and their Corps of Cadets has a four diamond Corps Commander but they don't refer to them as a brigadier general. Just as the Corps Commander. Now the mascot for the school is a collie dog named Revilee. It's actually the highest ranking, um living animal, in the Corps of Cadets and has five diamonds.
Finally before MMA I attended a military school in Indiana called Howe Military Institute. I was too young for MMA so that's where I went. Anyway it has three different "divisions" in their school and one of them was eight graders and below. They had their own company commanders, officers, etc. to distinguish the under school officers from the upper school officers they used gold rank instead of silver for the under school officers. So a company commander in the under school would have three gold pips. They also use this system in schools where they have a highschool military prep academy and then a military college.
Quote from: BGNightfall on September 02, 2012, 01:16:47 AM
US Navy and USMC do this... US Army habitually wear unit awards on the right, personal on the left. For what it's worth, in the Navy, this is only the practice when wearing full-size medals, which is not done in the USAF (unless you're the CSAF or CMSAF and get the Dress Snazzy Uniform (DSU))
When wearing
Medals in all branches they are worn on the left. Any ribbons (IE Unit Citations, Overseas ribbon Army Service Ribbon, Honor Graduate, etc) are worn on the right. What (J)ROTC, Military Schools, and others wear do not concern me, though I wonder how all the JROTC cadets get away with all the intermixed insignia.
Quote from: MSG Mac on September 02, 2012, 05:42:23 AM
Quote from: BGNightfall on September 02, 2012, 01:16:47 AM
US Navy and USMC do this... US Army habitually wear unit awards on the right, personal on the left. For what it's worth, in the Navy, this is only the practice when wearing full-size medals, which is not done in the USAF (unless you're the CSAF or CMSAF and get the Dress Snazzy Uniform (DSU))
When wearing Medals in all branches they are worn on the left. Any ribbons (IE Unit Citations, Overseas ribbon Army Service Ribbon, Honor Graduate, etc) are worn on the right. What (J)ROTC, Military Schools, and others wear do not concern me, though I wonder how all the JROTC cadets get away with all the intermixed insignia.
Army does not wear there ribbons that don't have according medals on the right when wearing ribbons. Just unit awards.
Quote from: Devil Doc on September 01, 2012, 10:02:44 PM
is it me or do some of them cadets in chicago have their ribbons on the wrong side?
(http://csnbbs.com/html/funnies/general/derailment.jpg)
^ Funny, but so true,
Quote from: JK657 on August 31, 2012, 11:19:37 PM
http://chicagojrotc.entest.org/city_corps_staff.jsp (http://chicagojrotc.entest.org/city_corps_staff.jsp)
^^^ Here's a Cadet Brigadier General in JROTC (4 diamonds)
With respect to the General. he might want to think about having his uniform pressed... :o
Tread-
I do not think he needs to get his uniform pressed. It looks that way, because I think he is using a coat one or two sizes too small...
Just sayin' like you, with respect to him...
Flyer
He is a CAP Mitchell cadet. I assume at IL312
Yeah.
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 31, 2012, 09:25:13 PM
Gold pip is a C/ Flight Officer. I was one about 1989-90 time frame
My promotion to C/FO was about a year after you in 1991 and it was phased out around 99. Still have my gold pip.
Quote from: leeyo32 on February 02, 2013, 12:22:53 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 31, 2012, 09:25:13 PM
Gold pip is a C/ Flight Officer. I was one about 1989-90 time frame
My promotion to C/FO was about a year after you in 1991 and it was phased out around 99. Still have my gold pip.
You were to busy worshiping me to promote. I kept telling you that you needed to branch out and be your own man. >:D
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 02, 2013, 02:25:26 AM
Quote from: leeyo32 on February 02, 2013, 12:22:53 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on August 31, 2012, 09:25:13 PM
Gold pip is a C/ Flight Officer. I was one about 1989-90 time frame
My promotion to C/FO was about a year after you in 1991 and it was phased out around 99. Still have my gold pip.
You were to busy worshiping me to promote. I kept telling you that you needed to branch out and be your own man. >:D
When you hit your head and became a Marine I could not follow you down that path. Playing toy soldier in DC was a better option.
You know you missed those late night ops in Arlington Cemetery.
MAN! Those were pretty good times weren't they! Hey, you need to hit up "Stonewall" You pretty boys probably know some of the same people.