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New CAPR 70-1U for sUAS

Started by etodd, February 18, 2019, 05:24:01 PM

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etodd

I have been given permission to share the new CAPR 70-1U  to anyone interested in seeing it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ws88i2kanu8b1vw/CAPR%2070-1U%20v2.docx?dl=0

And like any other CAP document, subject to revision any time.

"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

LSThiker

I understand this is a draft, subject to change.  But I am confused, and perhaps I am missing something (I read through this draft rather fast):

Quote4.1.2. CAP sUAS Mission Pilot
4.1.2.1.To operate as a CAP sUAS Mission Pilot in rotary wing or fixed wing sUASthe membermust:
4.1.2.1.1.Be current and qualified in accordance with the requirements of14 CFRPart 107 for a remote pilot certificate;and
4.1.2.1.2 Have successfully completed a CAP sUAS CAPF 5U check flight by a CAP sUAS Check airman within the last 12 calendar months; and
4.1.2.1.2.Have successfully passed a CAP sUAS Mission Pilot Flight Evaluation (CAPF 91U) within the past 12 calendar months;and
4.1.2.1.3.Complete Level I of the senior member professional development program if a senior member.

Then later on it states:
Quote6.2 Training
6.2.1All CAP sUAS Mission Pilots must complete the NESA Advanced sUAS Pilot Course (or approved equivalent).

I am thinking of going for the Part 107, just "because".  Nevertheless, if I can I use it on an ES, great.  But then I am curious if NESA attendance will be required.  Or was it thought to be included but later dropped.  Again, I know this is a rather loose "draft".

NIN

I think you need to be more clear on your post here.

This "CAPR 70-1U" is not "new." It is a "proposed" or "draft" regulation that has not been released to the field yet in an operational form.

Most specifically, it is not found in the current 0-2



Therefore, its really not binding guidance or directive.

And unlike "any other CAP document," because it is a draft, it is even more so subject to revision, change, our even outright elimination from consideration as a regulation.

You need to use a LOT of caution when posting draft regulations here, and you must be clear that what you're posting is a draft. Even if you have permission.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

1 - It's a draft (and an old one at that).

2 - If that's the case, this turns into another ARCHER overnight (though doubtful that's the case
as wings are already ramping this up).

3 - This is why regulations, draft or otherwise, aren't supposed to be published out of Dropbox accounts.

This is so far from a "thing" it shouldn't be more then a conversation point.

If it's actually released as a draft, then it's worth commenting on.

If it's actually released, we can all freely whine and complain, but most people
here know how many drafts and plans are put together in CAP every year and never
see the light of day.

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

A number of folks from several Wings will be training in Montgomery next month.So its more than "just a thing".

The initial instructors, who are now starting to instruct people in Wings to go back and be instructors in their Wings, is already happening.

But I get it. ARCHER and other similar things are before my time at CAP. But I've heard the stories. I understand.

And also yes, since it'll be a year or so before we see the 10 sUAS packages fully rolled out to each Wing, maybe I am jumping the gun a bit?  Not sure. Others are telling me that its a good idea to be prepared ahead of time and be ready to roll, instead of playing catchup. I'm just one trying to keep my Squadron in the loop and be ready when the time comes.  Maybe I should just be the cheerleader there and not online here with everyone else?  IDK.  My motives truly are for the best.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

etodd

Quote from: LSThiker on February 18, 2019, 07:50:33 PM
I understand this is a draft, subject to change.  But I am confused, and perhaps I am missing something (I read through this draft rather fast):

Quote4.1.2. CAP sUAS Mission Pilot
4.1.2.1.To operate as a CAP sUAS Mission Pilot in rotary wing or fixed wing sUASthe membermust:
4.1.2.1.1.Be current and qualified in accordance with the requirements of14 CFRPart 107 for a remote pilot certificate;and
4.1.2.1.2 Have successfully completed a CAP sUAS CAPF 5U check flight by a CAP sUAS Check airman within the last 12 calendar months; and
4.1.2.1.2.Have successfully passed a CAP sUAS Mission Pilot Flight Evaluation (CAPF 91U) within the past 12 calendar months;and
4.1.2.1.3.Complete Level I of the senior member professional development program if a senior member.

Then later on it states:
Quote6.2 Training
6.2.1All CAP sUAS Mission Pilots must complete the NESA Advanced sUAS Pilot Course (or approved equivalent).



"Approved equivalent"  will be Wing schools once enough Wing Instructors are trained.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

#6
Quote from: etodd on February 18, 2019, 08:26:24 PM
And also yes, since it'll be a year or so before we see the 10 sUAS packages fully rolled out to each Wing, maybe I am jumping the gun a bit?  Not sure. Others are telling me that its a good idea to be prepared ahead of time and be ready to roll, instead of playing catchup. I'm just one trying to keep my Squadron in the loop and be ready when the time comes.  Maybe I should just be the cheerleader there and not online here with everyone else?  IDK.  My motives truly are for the best.

No one said anything about motives, but perhaps the Director of this program should be the one sending out the
communications and starting the discussions.

If it's really a year before the first 10 hit units, this really isn't a "thing".

Part 107 training isn't going to hurt anyone, and is a great unit exercise in AE if nothing else,
whether or not it becomes a factor in CAP as anything other then a pet project is a big if and when at this point.

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on February 18, 2019, 08:36:00 PM


If it's really a year before the first 10 hit units, this really isn't a "thing".

Each Wing will have a unit this year. By the end of next each Wing should have at least 10 minimum. So, well over 500 scattered out.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

PHall

Quote from: etodd on February 18, 2019, 05:24:01 PM
I have been given permission to share the new CAPR 70-1U  to anyone interested in seeing it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ws88i2kanu8b1vw/CAPR%2070-1U%20v2.docx?dl=0

And like any other CAP document, subject to revision any time.

Permission from who?  The regulation has not even been published yet. Which means it's not even a regulation yet. How about letting the folks from National do their jobs. It's not a race!

NIN

Quote from: etodd on February 18, 2019, 08:26:24 PM
But I get it. ARCHER and other similar things are before my time at CAP. But I've heard the stories. I understand.

To be fair, there was a fair amount of "gatekeeping*" with Archer, since there were only 16 airplanes and systems.  Several systems per wing = more difficult to gatekeep.

* Gatekeeping - When someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

arajca

Quote from: NIN on February 18, 2019, 09:40:31 PM
Quote from: etodd on February 18, 2019, 08:26:24 PM
But I get it. ARCHER and other similar things are before my time at CAP. But I've heard the stories. I understand.

To be fair, there was a fair amount of "gatekeeping*" with Archer, since there were only 16 airplanes and systems.  Several systems per wing = more difficult to gatekeep.

* Gatekeeping - When someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity.
Not to mention, ARCHER was a prototype system with no manufacturer support.

Eclipse

Quote from: arajca on February 18, 2019, 09:59:31 PM
Quote from: NIN on February 18, 2019, 09:40:31 PM
Quote from: etodd on February 18, 2019, 08:26:24 PM
But I get it. ARCHER and other similar things are before my time at CAP. But I've heard the stories. I understand.

To be fair, there was a fair amount of "gatekeeping*" with Archer, since there were only 16 airplanes and systems.  Several systems per wing = more difficult to gatekeep.

* Gatekeeping - When someone takes it upon themselves to decide who does or does not have access or rights to a community or identity.
Not to mention, ARCHER was a prototype system with no manufacturer support.

Which is definitely a benevolent way to characterize the situation.

2 weeks, in-residence training?  It was the same mentality of "you need to know who this works in order to operate it"
mentality that make radio ops a hassle.  It's what kills most of these programs.

Bottom line, the further away from the squadron the training for a new toy is,
the less likely the average member will ever get near it.  If you have to leave the wing,
it's never going anywhere significant.

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on February 18, 2019, 10:25:31 PM

Bottom line, the further away from the squadron the training for a new toy is,
the less likely the average member will ever get near it.  If you have to leave the wing,
it's never going anywhere significant.

Exactly. On target. Which is why this is all drilling down to local. First the "trainers of the trainers" was done. Now the process of bringing in people from Wings is happening. These people will be new trainers who can start training new members inside their Wings. And eventually we'll have trainers at various squadrons in each Wing.

Just like we have with airplanes. No one has to travel very far (usually) to get their F5 or F91s. The sUAS Program is rolling out to reflect that.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

THRAWN

Sorry to revive an old thread, but with so many of these being shut down because people don't want to listen to reason, it is difficult to find a place to comment.

Real world, inevitably one of these "MPs" is going to drop one of these on a taxpayer's head or through a window or break a TFR. When that happens, one of your friendly neighborhood FAA inspectors, maybe even me, is going to make a visit and know what we are going to ask for? The organization's rule book. Only a draft? That dog won't hunt. Then, since the "MP" will most likely be found to be doing something outside the scope of their license, that goes in the shredder. Then, since there are a bunch of people in uniforms with colorful patches and velcro, photos of that will end up in the media. Then the sharks in suits start to circle....

Now, changing to my local and state emergency manager hat...yeah, same thing. Without an official set of rules, CAP wouldn't even be considered for a tasking.

If it ain't in writing, it ain't real, and if that writing ain't official, it ain't legal.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

etodd

#14
Quote from: THRAWN on July 04, 2019, 02:24:35 PM
Sorry to revive an old thread, but with so many of these being shut down because people don't want to listen to reason, it is difficult to find a place to comment.

Real world, inevitably one of these "MPs" is going to drop one of these on a taxpayer's head or through a window or break a TFR. When that happens, one of your friendly neighborhood FAA inspectors, maybe even me, is going to make a visit and know what we are going to ask for? The organization's rule book. Only a draft? That dog won't hunt. Then, since the "MP" will most likely be found to be doing something outside the scope of their license, that goes in the shredder. Then, since there are a bunch of people in uniforms with colorful patches and velcro, photos of that will end up in the media. Then the sharks in suits start to circle....

Now, changing to my local and state emergency manager hat...yeah, same thing. Without an official set of rules, CAP wouldn't even be considered for a tasking.

If it ain't in writing, it ain't real, and if that writing ain't official, it ain't legal.

Yes.

I cannot speak to others, but in my Wing as I'm doing "training", under these draft regs, we are flying out in the boondocks, and its just us. No houses nearby, no traffic. Staying low out over a field. Most of the initial training is just 10 feet off the ground, learning to fly patterns out over a field.

It makes me wonder what some here think of our Command at Headquarters? No trust or faith? Surely you realize that long BEFORE they tell FEMA and others that we are "ready for business" that all these regs will be formalized. None of us will be out flying tornado or flood damage over cities and neighborhoods until such time.

Headquarters has issued commands that we roll this out and use the draft info for training purposes only. And yes, as as Instructor and Check Pilot, I'm making sure all my training is well away from areas of concern, like people and traffic.

Can I even begin to tell you why its all still in draft form? Beats me.  I'm still the fairly new guy. You folks that have been here for decades might can answer the question as to why documents sit on desks for months at a time before someone checks off a box.

National Headquarters, Region, Wing and my Group Commander, are giving me directives.  I'm doing my best to follow such, and also use common sense, and the FAA regs as well, to perform in a legal and safe manner.

(ETA:  Maybe they are watching how all this training is being done and how the draft regs are working "real world" before they finalize them. That would make sense. They have already made a minor change on one of the SQTR Worksheets. Yet another reason for us to keep moving along. Maybe its easier to make changes to a draft reg until its ready, than to formalize it and then go through a revision process? IDK)
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Eclipse

Quote from: etodd on July 04, 2019, 02:51:58 PMSurely you realize that long BEFORE they tell FEMA and others that we are "ready for business" that all these regs will be formalized. None of us will be out flying tornado or flood damage over cities and neighborhoods until such time.

Surely you have been in CAP long enough to not really believe that, right?

"That Others May Zoom"

etodd

Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2019, 03:17:01 PM
Quote from: etodd on July 04, 2019, 02:51:58 PMSurely you realize that long BEFORE they tell FEMA and others that we are "ready for business" that all these regs will be formalized. None of us will be out flying tornado or flood damage over cities and neighborhoods until such time.

Surely you have been in CAP long enough to not really believe that, right?

I guess I just have a more supportive and positive outlook of CAP National Command than some here.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

OldGuy

#17
What is real is over 1,000 sUAS Form 5s are on file. With over 1,000 sUAS CAP pilots getting hours in and getting ramped up, knowing what is being discussed so far as the Op Plan and the regs is very much worthwhile. And unlike ARCHER,. this is being driven BOTH from the top down and the bottom up. I plan on getting my Part 107 license and a Form 5 so that my ability in cockpit as an AP/MS/MO will be enhanced, as well as my ability as PAO/PIO to "tell the story" with real world experience is also enhanced.

N6RVT

Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2019, 03:17:01 PM
Quote from: etodd on July 04, 2019, 02:51:58 PM
1. Surely you realize that long BEFORE they tell FEMA and others that we are "ready for business" that all these regs will be formalized.
2. None of us will be out flying tornado or flood damage over cities and neighborhoods until such time.
Surely you have been in CAP long enough to not really believe that, right?
I believe #1 completely.  #2 is already false.

etodd

Quote from: Dwight Dutton on July 04, 2019, 11:15:20 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on July 04, 2019, 03:17:01 PM
Quote from: etodd on July 04, 2019, 02:51:58 PM
1. Surely you realize that long BEFORE they tell FEMA and others that we are "ready for business" that all these regs will be formalized.
2. None of us will be out flying tornado or flood damage over cities and neighborhoods until such time.
Surely you have been in CAP long enough to not really believe that, right?
I believe #1 completely.  #2 is already false.


I can only speak for my Wing, and #2 holds true for us. My Wing has not been tasked with anything other than training.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."