Jewish Holidays and CAP Activities

[Spike]

By the Way here are the Catholic Religions Holidays.  I want these to be "CAP Free days" if Jewish Holidays become "CAP Free days".  (I am not even Catholic, just looking out for the moral welfare of my Catholic Members!)

+ Mary, Mother of God
+ Ash Wednesday
+ Holy Thursday
+ Good Friday
+ Holy Saturday
+ Easter
+ Divine Mercy Sunday
+ Ascension
+ Pentecost
+ Trinity Sunday
+ Corpus Christi
+ Assumption of Mary
+ All Saints Day
+ First Sunday of Advent
+ Immaculate Conception
+ Christmas

[hatentx]

I am going to have to agree with this one.  Religious observancs should be taken into account in some issues.  Like a Wing or Natianal Conference.  Something like a SAREX or traning event not an issue it is something that happenes often enough.  Same thing something that has a meal in it shouldnt be done during Romadom either if it is a once a year thing.  While I agree religion should dictate what we do we can be considerate of those other religions.  Most Christian holidays are given off already so it isnt a hassel for the majority but the minority can atleast be thought of.  It is what we would teach the Cadets in Moral Leadership nights right?

[dogboy]

I'm beginning to detect a pattern in your responses here.

Easter and Good Friday: Easter is on Sunday. Meeting aren't held on Sundays. But what about other activities: training, SLS, CLC, and conferences are never held over Easter weekend.

Christmas Day is a Federal holiday because it is a Christian holiday.

I don't believe that asking the CAP activities be scheduled so they don't conflict with a few Jewish holidays and therefore allow the participation of Jewish members is "impressing your religion on other(s)".

It's perfectly reasonable not to schedule optional activities over Easter or Christmas; I'm only asking that another religion be shown the same courtesy.

[Eclipse]

No one is saying that we shouldn't at least consult a calendar when planning activities, but as has been stated, there are only so many weekends in a year, and my state's calendar fills up fast.

Let's also be clear, Easter and Christmas may have started out as Christian holidays, but they are now more commercial engines than religious festivals.  Certainly people go to church, but more often its family parties, egg hunts and caroling as opposed to Midnight Candle mass and 40 days of fasting. For all intents and purposes these have become mainstream secular observances that a majority of Americans celebrate, including Jewish people.

There was a time in this country when Good Friday meant business ground to a halt, now you generally have to take a floater to even have off.  You can extrapolate that to the other major holidays as well.

CAP is a secular organization, existing within a governmental framework which tries to be tolerant and sensitive to other religions, but is still decidedly Christian in its customs and observances, because so is most of the rest of the country and culture.  That's not going to change any time soon.

[RiverAux]

Many Christian denominations have evening services on various weeknights in addition to Sunday services.  Should we move our meetings to avoid them?

[DBlair]

We each have our own personal beliefs and perspectives on how religious holidays should be observed. We may or may not agree with the beliefs of another person, and this isn't really something we need to be debating here.

Other than the standard Federal holidays, I think a lot of it depends on local issues. For example, if a certain community or Wing has a large Jewish population, then perhaps planning events on major Jewish holidays would not be the best strategic decision as it would yield low participation and prevent a substantial amount of members from participating. That being said, if a specific community does not have such a Jewish population, then it isn't such a pressing issue.

I'm not saying that every religious holiday, day of rest, or event of every religion should be avoided when scheduling events as then we would never get anything done- there is a holiday pretty much every day of the year if you consider every religion out there. Though, I do believe that reasonable accommodations should be made if there is a substantial quantity of members are from a specific religion.

I think of it this way... If I schedule an event on a certain day and many of my members aren't going to be available for whatever reason, then perhaps it would be better to select a different day.

[Strick]

Please dont forget St.Patricks Day for us Irish Catholics(cant fly that day

[Major Carrales]

By the Way here are the Catholic Religions Holidays.  I want these to be "CAP Free days" if Jewish Holidays become "CAP Free days".  (I am not even Catholic, just looking out for the moral welfare of my Catholic Members!)

+ Mary, Mother of God
+ Ash Wednesday
+ Holy Thursday
+ Good Friday
+ Holy Saturday
+ Easter
+ Divine Mercy Sunday
+ Ascension
+ Pentecost
+ Trinity Sunday
+ Corpus Christi
+ Assumption of Mary
+ All Saints Day
+ First Sunday of Advent
+ Immaculate Conception
+ Christmas

Corpus Christi...hummmm?  Maybe my unit should take that day off.

[dogboy]

Easter and Christmas may have started out as Christian holidays, but they are now more commercial engines than religious festivals. 
<snip> For all intents and purposes these have become mainstream secular observances that a majority of Americans celebrate, including Jewish people.

No one can debate that Christmas, at least, has become commercialized; Easter much less so.

However, at least where I live, both Christmas and Easter still are very strong religious holidays with triple and quadrupedal services offered in churches.

My observation is that very, very few Jews celebrate Christmas or Easter as a secular holiday. I've never met a Jew who celebrates Easter in any form and the clear trend is away from the secular celebration of Christmas by Jews.

[Eclipse]

My observation is that very, very few Jews celebrate Christmas or Easter as a secular holiday. I've never met a Jew who celebrates Easter in any form and the clear trend is away from the secular celebration of Christmas by Jews.

Cite please.

[Cecil DP]

Easter and Christmas may have started out as Christian holidays, but they are now more commercial engines than religious festivals. 
<snip> For all intents and purposes these have become mainstream secular observances that a majority of Americans celebrate, including Jewish people.

No one can debate that Christmas, at least, has become commercialized; Easter much less so.

However, at least where I live, both Christmas and Easter still are very strong religious holidays with triple and quadrupedal services offered in churches.

My observation is that very, very few Jews celebrate Christmas or Easter as a secular holiday. I've never met a Jew who celebrates Easter in any form and the clear trend is away from the secular celebration of Christmas by Jews.

correct about the jewish race not celebrating Easter, but Passopver is always within a week of if not coincident with the Easter celebration.

[Major Carrales]

Well, then the true solution is simple...

We divide the Civil Air Patrol (in the tradition Solomon), into Religious sects, thus allowing some people to fill in when others are at service...

Roman Catholic CAP- Lots of feast days and religiously significant days.   

Protestant CAP- Not some many such days, however, the majors are covered.

Eastern Orthodox CAP- Still on the Julian Calendar

Jewish CAP- IAW the Traditions of Judaism

Muslim CAP- IAW the Koran and Traditions of Muhammad

Atheistic CAP- Don't believe they will work

Buddhist CAP- One with everything

While our society has moved away from segregation, this solution is the only one that addresses the issues presented in the above thread.

SERIOUSLY people... do we really have to go there?

[Eclipse]

If you're a "twice-a-year Catholic" and a "twice-a-year CAP member" which organization do you blow off
when a SAREx is scheduled on Good Friday?

[Major Carrales]

If you're a "twice-a-year Catholic" and a "twice-a-year CAP member" which organization do you blow off
when a SAREx is scheduled on Good Friday?

If you are a twice a year "either of those" you are, in fact, neither of those.

[Flying Pig]

^ :clap: :clap:

[Flying Pig]

My father is the pastor of an Assembly of God Church (Christian)

On major holiday, Christmas, Easter, etc. he purposely makes sure his sermon has NOTHING to do with that holiday.  His theory is that if all you do is come to church on holidays, hes going to do more than tell you the bedtime story you came expecting. 

[Gunner C]

I think this might boil down to common sense - schedule meetings that fit for the majority of your people:

• In the bible belt, don't schedule meetings on Sundays and Wednesdays, Easter, and Christmas
• In the Mountain West, don't schedule meetings on Sundays and Mondays, Easter, and Christmas, and the 24th of July
• If you live in a predominately Jewish area such as parts of New York, Memphis Tennessee, and West Helena Arkansas, avoid meetings on Friday, Saturday, and the high holy days
• If you live in Flint, Michigan, don't schedule meetings for Fridays and for the entire month of Ramadan
• If they're the type who go to church three times in their lives (hatched, matched, and dispatched), calendar's open!

Check with your unit chaplain.  He should be able to give you guidance.  But DON'T  summarily exclude people of faith.  You'll limit your unit and miss out on folks who'll add new dimension to the family.

[isuhawkeye]

I am amazed at some of the people on this board.  If a member (or more importantly a group of members) of your unit is/are activley trying to participate in CAP why wouldnt you at least consider developing schedules that acomodate the maximum number of participants?

I dont think that anyone is implying that all possible holidays, or cultural events should be avaided, but shouldnt active members be allowed to participate and advance if they are so motivated?

[arajca]

I am amazed at some of the people on this board.  If a member (or more importantly a group of members) of your unit is/are activley trying to participate in CAP why wouldnt you at least consider developing schedules that acomodate the maximum number of participants?

Since the OP references WING-WIDE activities, which group do you not accomodate? If someone has scheduling issues, they need to deconflict, not expect me to do it for them. When I've started the planning process, I usually send out a wing-wide email saying that I'm looking at doing something in a particular time frame - usually in a particular month. I generally have one or two who respond by letting me know of SAREX's or similar conflicts. I don't get religious scheduling complaints until after I've nailed down the date and aranged for the facility, at which time it's too late.

I dont think that anyone is implying that all possible holidays, or cultural events should be avaided, but shouldnt active members be allowed to participate and advance if they are so motivated?

If you schedule for one group, you have to schedule for all.

All members are allowed to participate. If scheduling doesn't work for someone, THEY need to take steps to correct the problem, not expect me to.

[davedove]

I am amazed at some of the people on this board.  If a member (or more importantly a group of members) of your unit is/are activley trying to participate in CAP why wouldnt you at least consider developing schedules that acomodate the maximum number of participants?

Since the OP references WING-WIDE activities, which group do you not accomodate? If someone has scheduling issues, they need to deconflict, not expect me to do it for them. When I've started the planning process, I usually send out a wing-wide email saying that I'm looking at doing something in a particular time frame - usually in a particular month. I generally have one or two who respond by letting me know of SAREX's or similar conflicts. I don't get religious scheduling complaints until after I've nailed down the date and aranged for the facility, at which time it's too late.

I think what the whole argument boils down to is REASONABLE accomodation or requests.  It is the responsibility of the individuals affected to make their needs known ahead of time.  Then the planners can make REASONABLE allowances.  If they don't alert the planner ahead of time, that's their own problem.

I dont think that anyone is implying that all possible holidays, or cultural events should be avaided, but shouldnt active members be allowed to participate and advance if they are so motivated?

If you schedule for one group, you have to schedule for all.

All members are allowed to participate. If scheduling doesn't work for someone, THEY need to take steps to correct the problem, not expect me to.

Again, as long as the schedule can REASONABLY accomodate the special schedules, there shouldn't be a problem.

I know, someone is going to ask how you determine reasonable.  Well, that's a judgement call in each case and another argument.